Witness accounts

[LambChop]

MO'M will have a field day with these witnesses at trial IMO.

Why most of their original statement supported the theory GZ was being beaten? Now they are changing, stating influence from LE to see it a certain way and their stories are changing. I don't see how their changing stories will help GZ in any way. jmo

 

[Just K]

I am more terrified of GZ and his supporters than I would ever be of Trayvon Martin or his family and friends. But, if I were a witness and I believed that my life would be jeopardized by testifying for the prosecution..Well, I would because Justice, Honesty and Integrity mean more to me. I want to die knowing that I lived a life of Integrity and Honesty. I want to die knowing that I was strong enough to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth..

 

[AJ Noiter]

I would say the mother should have had enough sense not to let her son give a statement to the news. It proves the point that when an authority figure puts pressure on you to give a statement a certain way some people buy into it.

Witness statements were important. Had LE let them tell their story and sorted them out later they may have had something they could have pieced together to figure out what happened. Most of their statements are not unreliable, IMO. jmo

The authority figure had NOTHING to do with his statement on camera. In fact, according to what I quoted from the source, the officer made NO impression on the young man and he stuck to his story. I think that's the key point you're missing - the mother says the boy NEVER said anything about a color and insisted that he couldn't tell the colors because it was too dark. Either the mother lied to the source or she convinced her son to change his story.

Side note but on topic: Does anyone know where the original story is where the young boy was interviewed? I'd like to know what the date was when it was recorded.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Anyone have any guesses why FDLE asked all the EMT's what Martin was wearing?

 

[LambChop]

He does have an amazing ability to race-bait and inflame the general public, as well as the special interests. Imo, he is particularly good at it because he is not at all constrained by truth or conscience, and his end goal is the greatest motivator of all to many people. So, while I don't think he personally convinced the witnesses to change their stories, certainly the climate he has actively and intentionally created would do the trick. Heck, if people are talking about the Judge possibly punting due to fear of reprisal (and they are, at least in my circle), how can we expect more from a witness. jmo

I don't think the judge is afraid of anyone. He deals with criminals everyday and some really bad ones, too. I think he sleeps just fine. jmo

 

[imamaze]

He does have an amazing ability to race-bait and inflame the general public, as well as the special interests. Imo, he is particularly good at it because he is not at all constrained by truth or conscience, and his end goal is the greatest motivator of all to many people. So, while I don't think he personally convinced the witnesses to change their stories, certainly the climate he has actively and intentionally created would do the trick. Heck, if people are talking about the Judge possibly punting due to fear of reprisal (and they are, at least in my circle), how can we expect more from a witness. jmo

You do have some good points but what is his end goal?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Why most of their original statement supported the theory GZ was being beaten? Now they are changing, stating influence from LE to see it a certain way and their stories are changing. I don't see how their changing stories will help GZ in any way. jmo

Exactly!

Their original statements were before all of the media/race/bounty times. So I would think they are more accurate.

After Crump/civil rights protests and the investigation was handed over, statements started to change/shift to be more favorable to the state's case.

You can bet those "new" versions are what the state will put forth, and MO'M will have his field day breaking those statements down to the original versions.

JMO

 

[Karmady]

I have not heard the tape where he talks about the MMA and ground and pound and just caught a snippet of it on youtube. It sounded like the detective and witness were worked up describing it. I can not listen to the one on NYT for some reason. Does it sound like the detective is leading him?

I'll have to listen to it again. But the iirc, the officer's statement was "like ground and pound?" and it came after the witness offered the MMA with no obvious leading.

Where is the current statement where he backs off the MMA, do you (or anyone) know. TIA

 

[LambChop]

The authority figure had NOTHING to do with his statement on camera. In fact, according to what I quoted from the source, the officer made NO impression on the young man and he stuck to his story. I think that's the key point you're missing - the mother says the boy NEVER said anything about a color and insisted that he couldn't tell the colors because it was too dark. Either the mother lied to the source or she convinced her son to change his story.

Side note but on topic: Does anyone know where the original story is where the young boy was interviewed? I'd like to know what the date was when it was recorded.

Maybe he told reporters the story LE expected him to tell. He is a kid, afterall. To a kid LE is authority. jmo

 

[Kimberlyd125]

You do have some good points but what is his end goal?

He is a civil rights attorney.
I would think his end goal is to further his cause whether it's wrong or right.

Much like a lot of civil rights activists have been shown to "fib" a little for personal gain.

JMO

 

[LambChop]

Exactly!

Their original statements were before all of the media/race/bounty times. So I would think they are more accurate.

After Crump/civil rights protests and the investigation was handed over, statements started to change/shift to be more favorable to the state's case.

You can bet those "new" versions are what the state will put forth, and MO'M will have his field day breaking those statements down to the original versions.

JMO

I believe right after giving their statements some of the witnesses complained that LE kept trying to change their statements by suggesting that this was not what they saw so that does not sound as if their statements were in support of GZ's position. But we shall soon see and it shall be interesting. jmo

 

[katydid23]

I don't think the judge is afraid of anyone. He deals with criminals everyday and some really bad ones, too. I think he sleeps just fine. jmo

It is more about being afraid for his career. The public would want his head if he prevented this trial from taking place, according to some.

and one or two criminals is nothing compared to having three or four civil rights activists calling in protestors from all across the country, in protest about YOUR ruling.

 

[Karmady]

You do have some good points but what is his end goal?

No immunity and a plea bargain or conviction so that the civil suits can go forward with a far lower standard of proof? jmo

If the State loses at the SYG hearing, there will be no upside for Crump at all, also imo.

And I'd suggest that there's some professional/financial motivation just from the notoriety thrown in there, to boot. Between this case and the boot camp case, he would become quite the famous and wealthy civil rights "go to" guy, probably on a national level.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I believe right after giving their statements some of the witnesses complained that LE kept trying to change their statements by suggesting that this was not what they saw so that does not sound as if their statements were in support of GZ's position. But we shall soon see and it shall be interesting. jmo

Right after?

I don't recall that at all.


I remember it coming "out" after the media/racial/protests frenzy.

Again, persuasion.

 

[pcrum12]

He does have an amazing ability to race-bait and inflame the general public, as well as the special interests. Imo, he is particularly good at it because he is not at all constrained by truth or conscience, and his end goal is the greatest motivator of all to many people. So, while I don't think he personally convinced the witnesses to change their stories, certainly the climate he has actively and intentionally created would do the trick. Heck, if people are talking about the Judge possibly punting due to fear of reprisal (and they are, at least in my circle), how can we expect more from a witness. jmo

POST OF THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!

 

[LambChop]

It is more about being afraid for his career. The public would want his head if he prevented this trial from taking place, according to some.

and one or two criminals is nothing compared to having three or four civil rights activists calling in protestors from all across the country, in protest about YOUR ruling.

Judges have rule by way of the law. There is no proof this judge rules by anything other than the law.

Personally I don't think TM's mother would go along with that. It's always the young black men that end up getting killed when these protests get out of hand and isn't that what she is standing up and lecturing that this is not the way to go. No more young innocent men need to die. I don't think you will see Mr. Crump going against what this woman wants for this country. I truly think she is trying to bring people together in asking for justice.

Painting hurtful remarks on a building owned in the black community in support of what GZ did is the problem.

The judge has to base his decision on the law. jmo

 

[Karmady]

I don't think the judge is afraid of anyone. He deals with criminals everyday and some really bad ones, too. I think he sleeps just fine. jmo

What I'm suggesting is that the Judge may cave to pressure because that is an option that his open to him. He has a some degree of discretion wrt SYG, and it is, imo, quite possible that he will use that discretion to avoid the possibility of potential backlash against him personally and/or professionally. In which case, the matter will go to a jury and all of the witnesses under extreme pressure will be called. jmo

Being fearful or not of particular criminals you may have dealt with is a far cry from bringing the wrath of a huge segment of the local and national population down on your head. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The authority figure had NOTHING to do with his statement on camera. In fact, according to what I quoted from the source, the officer made NO impression on the young man and he stuck to his story. I think that's the key point you're missing - the mother says the boy NEVER said anything about a color and insisted that he couldn't tell the colors because it was too dark. Either the mother lied to the source or she convinced her son to change his story.

Side note but on topic: Does anyone know where the original story is where the young boy was interviewed? I'd like to know what the date was when it was recorded.

The mother explains how they led the boy into saying a color for the shirt in this video plain as day.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense?lite

 

[pcrum12]

You do have some good points but what is his end goal?

I'll answer that one.... $$$$$$$ Money, of course.

JMO

 

[suzihawk]

He does have an amazing ability to race-bait and inflame the general public, as well as the special interests. Imo, he is particularly good at it because he is not at all constrained by truth or conscience, and his end goal is the greatest motivator of all to many people. So, while I don't think he personally convinced the witnesses to change their stories, certainly the climate he has actively and intentionally created would do the trick. Heck, if people are talking about the Judge possibly punting due to fear of reprisal (and they are, at least in my circle), how can we expect more from a witness. jmo

I don't know what circles you run in but I haven't heard that. Could you provide a link where this is being discussed?

In all honesty, the same things could be said about most attorneys at one time or another, IMO. I'm sure they also have their eye on the "end goal" and there are more, than not, that are not constrained by truth or conscience when it comes to defending their clients.

JMO