Witness accounts

[Dr.Fessel]

Are we sure they didn't? It seems to me there was a mention that GZ gave a final statement/video reenactment in the morning and another statement that night. Could that have been another reenactment? Just asking, I don't know. jmo

That might very well be.

 

[m00c0w]

Okay, but how would he know that the night of the shooting when they all thought TM was just a common ????? No big news story there or even a thought of a potential one. jmo

Exactly. Why/how would he be seeking his 15 minutes of fame when there's no reason to think it will become a big deal and gives his story anonymously to the media the next day?

 

[Just K]

Any witness account that changes from their original report, after they are questioned or after they talk to other witnesses or LE, has to be questioned. Sadly, they may have been asked appropriate questions that elicited something that they had not mentioned in either their 911 call or their initial LE interview/statement but now, the taped interviews come under suspicion.

 

[LambChop]

His story was consistent the night of the shooting.

I can't help but wonder what this new interim police chief thinks about all of this?????? jmo

 

[m00c0w]

That is why I said you have to watch the video. Sharpton ask her about it.

Yeah, and she says pretty much what he said. It's hardly leading. Now, if the investigator asked, "Was he wearing a red shirt?", that would be leading. If they said, "The person on the ground was latino, right?", that would be leading. "Was the shirt maybe white? Maybe black? Maybe red?" I would hardly call that leading. "I don't know" could have been answered, as could have any of the other colors mentioned.

 

[AJ Noiter]

That is why I said you have to watch the video. Sharpton ask her about it.

And I told you exactly what she said in the video. My comment to you was ABOUT the video. Skip ahead to the 8 minute mark on the video and watch. My comments are about the video.

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, and she says pretty much what he said. It's hardly leading. Now, if the investigator asked, "Was he wearing a red shirt?", that would be leading. If they said, "The person on the ground was latino, right?", that would be leading. "Was the shirt maybe white? Maybe black? Maybe red?" I would hardly call that leading. "I don't know" could have been answered, as could have any of the other colors mentioned.

They pressured him to answer a question that when he first saw GZ and TM he could not tell what color and that was his answer. They wanted a color and gave him a selection. However GZ was standing right there after the shooting and with all those lights it's obvious GZ was wearing red. This is where it is bad to try to pressure someone into giving an answer they've already told you they don't know. Their mind thinks it's expected to know. He did not guess red, he knew from after the shooting that GZ was wearing a red jacket. LE knows better. This is why we are seeing some of these witnesses changing their stories because they may have been able to separate before from after and that could have colored their statements to come out not exactly the way they saw it. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

And I told you exactly what she said in the video. My comment to you was ABOUT the video. Skip ahead to the 8 minute mark on the video and watch. My comments are about the video.

No you didn't. You said this:

"Could you tell if the color of the shirt was black or white or red or green?"

She did not say green.

She said white, red, or black.

Kids are taught in certain grades all about the color spectrum. They are taught white and black are not colors. White is the combination of all colors and black is the absences of color. It is a little lesson but it is stored in the brain of a good student and can be used unconsciously in a situation like this and the brain says red is the only color choice.

If he was going to say colors he should have said them all. Kids are so suggestive and want to please you really have to know what you are doing when you interview them.

 

[jjenny]

They pressured him to answer a question that when he first saw GZ and TM he could not tell what color and that was his answer. They wanted a color and gave him a selection. However GZ was standing right there after the shooting and with all those lights it's obvious GZ was wearing red. This is where it is bad to try to pressure someone into giving an answer they've already told you they don't know. Their mind thinks it's expected to know. He did not guess red, he knew from after the shooting that GZ was wearing a red jacket. LE knows better. This is why we are seeing some of these witnesses changing their stories because they may have been able to separate before from after and that could have colored their statements to come out not exactly the way they saw it. jmo

He (13 year old) went home and never witnessed GZ standing there at all, as far as I can tell from his 911 call.

 

[m00c0w]

They pressured him to answer a question that when he first saw GZ and TM he could not tell what color and that was his answer. They wanted a color and gave him a selection. However GZ was standing right there after the shooting and with all those lights it's obvious GZ was wearing red. This is where it is bad to try to pressure someone into giving an answer they've already told you they don't know. Their mind thinks it's expected to know. He did not guess red, he knew from after the shooting that GZ was wearing a red jacket. LE knows better. This is why we are seeing some of these witnesses changing their stories because they may have been able to separate before from after and that could have colored their statements to come out not exactly the way they saw it. jmo

The witness did not see GZ standing around, did he? How would he know the color of his shirt? They said black, which is what Martin was wearing, and red, which is what Zimmerman was wearing.

 

[LambChop]

No you didn't. You said this:

"Could you tell if the color of the shirt was black or white or red or green?"

She did not say green.

She said white, red, or black.

Kids are taught in certain grades all about the color spectrum. They are taught white and black are not colors. White is the combination of all colors and black is the absences of color. It is a little lesson but it is stored in the brain of a good student and can be used unconsciously in a situation like this and the brain says red is the only color choice.

If he was going to say colors he should have said them all. Kids are so suggestive and want to please you really have to know what you are doing when you interview them.

Plus the fact that after the shooting it was obvious to everyone what color GZ had on. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

No you didn't. You said this:

"Could you tell if the color of the shirt was black or white or red or green?"

She did not say green.

She said white, red, or black.

Kids are taught in certain grades all about the color spectrum. They are taught white and black are not colors. White is the combination of all colors and black is the absences of color. It is a little lesson but it is stored in the brain of a good student and can be used unconsciously in a situation like this and the brain says red is the only color choice.

If he was going to say colors he should have said them all. Kids are so suggestive and want to please you really have to know what you are doing when you interview them.

You honestly think a 13-year-old kid is going to put that level of analysis into a question about the color of a shirt? "Well, the shirt may have been white, but that's really a shade, and not a color, so I guess I'll say red."?

 

[LambChop]

The witness did not see GZ standing around, did he? How would he know the color of his shirt? They said black, which is what Martin was wearing, and red, which is what Zimmerman was wearing.

How do we know he did not? He and his sister were home alone. Don't tell me they did not look out that slider or go out on the porch for that matter. You can see people standing around and on their porches in the pictures. They all knew GZ was wearing red. How could they not know???? jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

You honestly think a 13-year-old kid is going to put that level of analysis into a question about the color of a shirt? "Well, the shirt may have been white, but that's really a shade, and not a color, so I guess I'll say red."?

No, that is why I said it can be used unconsciously by the brain in a question like this.

 

[LambChop]

No, that is why I said it can be used unconsciously by the brain in a question like this.

Actually this is true. They also use color and pictures when counseling children because it reflects things that are in their subconscious minds.

My favorite from psych class was: How many fingers do we have? Child: four. Teacher: We have five fingers. Child: no, see 4 fingers and a fumb. lol jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

No you didn't. You said this:

"Could you tell if the color of the shirt was black or white or red or green?"

She did not say green.

She said white, red, or black.

Kids are taught in certain grades all about the color spectrum. They are taught white and black are not colors. White is the combination of all colors and black is the absences of color. It is a little lesson but it is stored in the brain of a good student and can be used unconsciously in a situation like this and the brain says red is the only color choice.

If he was going to say colors he should have said them all. Kids are so suggestive and want to please you really have to know what you are doing when you interview them.

You're not replying to the substance in my post, you're replying to the single quote at the top which is an example of what the officer may have said. The mother didn't state exactly what the officer said, unless he used 3rd person which I would find extremely odd. <Mod Snip> Also, white and black are colors - just because they're not spectral colors does not mean they're not colors.

 

[m00c0w]

No, that is why I said it can be used unconsciously by the brain in a question like this.

And I think that's a mighty tenuous stretch. Shirts exist in all colors mentioned. I doubt the kid said "red" because it's a hue rather than a tone and some sort of subconscious reference to light.

In any case, black and white as pigments are definitely colors. You seem to be oversimplifying things a tad to make some sort of stretch of a point.

 

[LambChop]

You're not replying to the substance in my post, you're replying to the single quote at the top which is an example of what the officer may have said. The mother didn't state exactly what the officer said, unless he used 3rd person which I would find extremely odd. <Mod Snip>Also, white and black are colors - just because they're not spectral colors does not mean they're not colors.

Kids think of colors as colors, red, green, yellow, etc. Black is black and white is white. Even now you say color and I think of colors. White and black are colorless to me. That is just me. But I do understand what Doc is saying in your mind color is color not white or black. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

Kids think of colors as colors, red, green, yellow, etc. Black is black and white is white. Even now you say color and I think of colors. White and black are colorless to me. That is just me. But I do understand what Doc is saying in your mind color is color not white or black. jmo

If an individual is wearing a black shirt, and someone asks what color shirt they're wearing, are you going to decline to answer? Are you going to say he's wearing a red shirt? Or might you agree that he's wearing a black-colored shirt?

 

[LambChop]

If an individual is wearing a black shirt, and someone asks what color shirt they're wearing, are you going to decline to answer? Are you going to say he's wearing a red shirt? Or might you agree that he's wearing a black-colored shirt?

I thought he first told investigators he could not make out any colors, it was too dark. If he visually saw GZ afterwards he probably could have told investigators what color shoes GZ was wearing. I believe he was telling the truth when he said, first, he could not tell. Pressured for an answer he gave the only answer he knew and that would have been while GZ was standing around waiting for LE to move him to the patrol car he could see what GZ was wearing. And very visible because of all the lights they had back there that were not there before when he saw them on the ground. He gave them the answer he may have felt they wanted but it may not be accurate because of the exposure he had after the shooting to GZ. jmo