Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #3

[LuckyLucy2]

^ Dina doesn't need to prove anything. The Zahaus need to prove Dina, Nina, and Adam were in that room or on that balcony, and that Adam strangled Rebecca. That will never happen since the Zahaus made-up story is taken from Internet speculation. Funny that the wrath of the Zahau supporters is for the mother of a dead child, not the person they are trying to fame as strangling Rebecca.

Rebecca Zahzu committed suicide and that is a fact and that fact will never change.

 

[jillycat]

I've never posted on this case but have followed the news on it and read varying opinions from varying sources on suicide vs murder, knot tying, etc. The case interests me because the circumstances and events are so dramatic and Rebecca's death in particular is just plain bizarre. When I first read about it in news reports it seemed the suicide ruling was a fantabulous tale of what just made no sense.

So, I've been reading the threads here.

I'm sorry to see the attacks on her family. I can thoroughly understand why the official findings of suicide are unbelievable to her loved ones. I can also thoroughly understand why many of the behaviors and remarks of the other parties seem, at best, inconsistent.

It's all been said, but I'll weigh in too. Bottom line, I find it pretty hard to believe that someone who was behaving normally, shuttling family to and fro, arranging dog boarding, having dinner with her boyfriend and other parties, and appearing to an outsider as happily involved with her boyfriend, suddenly decided:

"I think I'll strip down, or heck, maybe take a shower and not dress afterwards, scout some rope, do a little door graffiti in code, bind and gag myself, taking time to demonstrate my special knot tying expertise, and then hop or levitate to the balcony and dive off. Because I just can't take it anymore."

I'm not sure Cool Hand Luke who was a Boy Scout as a child and then joined the Navy could be that spontaneously and meticulously elaborate with rope measurement accuracy, knot tying, bed anchoring, etc. - and even stop to gag himself so he didn't scream - while under such acute distress with suicidal ideation, triggered by sudden devastating news?

I can see hanging oneself in such a moment of distress. I can see jumping off a balcony. I can see downing a lethal overdose of drugs. I can see shooting oneself. I can see using a knife to do lethal harm. I can see crashing one's car.

But I cannot see, all of a sudden, going to the relatively time-intensive clear-headed lengths she allegedly went to, and that require some unique skills, to end her life in reaction to acute guilt and self-blame.

I fully appreciate why her family isn't swallowing that version of events.

And FWIW, I don't think professional opinion about manner of death in this case are synonymous with "fact".

 

[Frigga]

Dina absolutely will have to prove her whereabouts during the timeframe Rebecca was murdered.

Triangulation of a cell phone is NOT proof. Give me a break.

 

[jillycat]

There may be unflattering photos of Dina, yet, Dina does not have a mugshot. Rebecca does.

And her arrest is very relevant to the case, as it shows Rebecca did not have impluse control, IMO. Someone without much impulse control is the type of person that commits suicide in the nude after hearing a phone message. Just like 15 detectives concluded.

IMO, Rebecca Zahau's mugshot for stealing $1000 worth of pretty baubles from Macy's as an adult at the age of 30, and just two years before she took her own life says quite a bit about Rebecca, and IMO, we see the real Rebecca Zahau in that shot.

JMO

An arrest and a mugshot are moments in time. I can see having differences of opinion on suicide vs crime, but no picture reveals the "real" anyone. No shoplifting charge reveals the extent to which anyone lacks impulse control. No shoplifting charge equals the conclusion that "therefore she could/would kill herself in the nude after a distressing phone call."

I can respect that people have different views of what happened. I can't understand leaps in logic or hasty generalizations.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

I have no problem believing that Rebecca took her own life, afterall, the Doctors at Rady's thought little 6- year old Max had been suffocated and had called Child Protective services to investigate the accident. Dina, Nina, and Adam all stayed in town and cooperated with LE. Rebecca quickly boarded the dog, whisked XZ's out of town, then took her own life less than 12 hours later. Any dectective knows that innocent people coorperate, guilty people leave town...or the planet.

I really doubt that anyone new is posting on this case. One of the major tactics of the Zahaus and their followers is to post relentlessly under different names. It is how they have worked from the first day the story was reported.

Rebecca took her life because knew her relationship with Jonah was over and she knew that she would be investigated by CPS for what happened to Max under her supervision:



Rebecca changed her story numerous times, then she took the coward's way out rather than tell the truth.

JMO

 

[LuckyLucy2]

An arrest and a mugshot are moments in time. I can see having differences of opinion on suicide vs crime, but no picture reveals the "real" anyone. No shoplifting charge reveals the extent to which anyone lacks impulse control. No shoplifting charge equals the conclusion that "therefore she could/would kill herself in the nude after a distressing phone call."

I can respect that people have different views of what happened. I can't understand leaps in logic or hasty generalizations.

Just as no criminal history at all for Dina, Nina, and Adam equates to the three of them killing Rebecca Zahau over Max in a Three Stooges like caper. Also a leap in logic and hasty generalization. And never happened.

JMO and LE's opinion

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Dina absolutely will have to prove her whereabouts during the timeframe Rebecca was murdered.

Triangulation of a cell phone is NOT proof. Give me a break.

Dina has already proven her whereabouts during the time that Rebecca took her own life...to law enforcement.


Rebcca,'s death was a suicide and will remain a suicide forever.

JMO

 

[jillycat]

Dina has already proven her whereabouts during the time that Rebecca took her own life...to law enforcement.


Rebcca,'s death was a suicide and will remain a suicide forever.

JMO

I can appreciate you have a differing opinion. I cannot understand how a picture of a dying child is a rebuttal to my points about your reasoning that a mugshot reveals a person or his or her future suicidal ideation.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^ I never said that Rebecca's mugshot was an indication of Rebecca's future suicide. I said that I thought that face was the last one little Max likely saw, and that the mug shot showed the real face of Rebecca Zahau - full of anger and rage and capable of hurting a little boy in order to get Dina Shacknai out of Jonah's life.



JMO


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[kittychi]

Only ONE of two things can be true here:

1. Dina has irrefutable proof of where she was and WANTS to continue spending tons of money, time and energy rather than file a Motion of Summary Judgment

Or

2. She has no proof of her whereabouts and is guilty of murder.



IMO

 

[jillycat]

^ I never said that Rebecca's mugshot was an indication of Rebecca's future suicide. I said that I thought that face was the last one little Max likely saw, and that the mug shot showed the real face of Rebecca Zahau - full of anger and rage and capable of hurting a little boy in order to get Dina Shacknai out of Jonah's life.

View attachment 82207

JMO


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If I read your previous remarks accurately, you said her arrest reflected that she lacked impulse control and that "someone without much impulse control is the type of person that commits suicide in the nude after hearing a phone message".

And I continue to disagree that a mug shot can reveal the potential for the person to harm or kill a child to remove an ex-wife from the picture. Surely killing a woman's child, particularly if you're her ex's girlfriend, promises that the ex-wife is a permanent fixture in your life. And, the authorities said the child's tragic death was not a result of foul play.

So, if I understand your remarks correctly, you're wanting it both ways - law enforcement/experts are right when ruling her death a suicide, but (presumably) wrong when ruling the child's death an accident. I don't think that's a tenable position.

In regard to impulsive behavior, did she have a pattern of impulsive behavior in her life generally? Was she reckless in other instances with the welfare of others, or did she show disregard for her own welfare? It seems not. So no picture or moment in time reflected in a mug shot, alongside a history that shows no impulse control issues or associated mental health problems or depression, is sufficient, in my opinion, to define a person as full of rage and/or capable of harming a child.

My disagreement with the suicide ruling isn't a statement about the guilt or innocence of the parties being sued. It's simply a position of not buying that Rebecca would have bound and gagged herself and engaged in all the behaviors that the death scene reflects. I think she had a good deal of help. So, I understand the family's unwillingness to accept a suicide ruling based on opinion that she "could have" gotten herself bound and hung in that fashion.

 

[coastal]

Welcome, jillycat!

 

[jillycat]

Just as no criminal history at all for Dina, Nina, and Adam equates to the three of them killing Rebecca Zahau over Max in a Three Stooges like caper. Also a leap in logic and hasty generalization. And never happened.

JMO and LE's opinion

Where did I accuse Dina, Nina, and Adam of killing Rebecca over Max?

If you read my posts, I reject the ruling based on, not who I think killed her, but the wild scenario of her becoming so distraught as a result of a phone message that she set out on a meticulous, tedious, thoughtful journey to suicide - by searching for rope, measuring and cutting the rope, binding and gagging herself to ensure that when she hopped or hurled herself over the balcony, her expert knot-tying left her hanging enough above the ground that she would expire, and couldn't scream for rescue. And somewhere in this long road to ending her acutely painful feelings of guilt, she decided to perform these tasks in the nude, while apparently menstruating, and was also mindful enough to get a brush and some paint and scrawl cryptic graffiti on a door?

I don't think so. JMO

 

[jillycat]

Welcome, jillycat!

Thank you! I've been wrapped up in another case here and don't 'get out much'! But the suit forthcoming in Rebecca's death is of great interest to me.

 

[DeDee]

Shoplifting

Motivations for shoplifting are controversial among researchers, although they generally agree that shoplifters are driven by either economic or psychosocial motives. Psychosocial motivations may include peer pressure, a desire for thrill or excitement, impulse, intoxication, or compulsion.[9]

Depression is the psychiatric disorder most commonly associated with shoplifting. Shoplifting is also associated with family or marital stress, social isolation, having had a difficult childhood, alcoholism or drug use, low self-esteem, and eating disorders, with bulimic shoplifters frequently stealing food. Some researchers have theorized that shoplifting is an unconscious attempt to make up for a past loss.[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoplifting

Shoplifting and Suicide

Jon E. Grant, professor of psychiatry and behavioral neuroscience at the University of Chicago’s Pritzker School of Medicine, calls the “neurocognitive sequelae of shoplifting.” Grant and Orlaug are part of a group of psychiatric researchers who have been studying compulsive shoplifting for more than a decade. In the Archives of Suicide Research, lead author Odlaug documented abnormally high suicide rates among a group of 107 participants with kleptomania, 24.3 percent of whom had reported at least one suicide attempt. That figure is “6 to 24 times higher than in the United States general population,” according to the report—roughly similar to the rate of suicide attempts among patients with schizophrenic disorders. It is higher than the rate of suicide attempts reported in cases of major depressive disorder (16.5 percent).

- See more at: http://www.dana.org/News/Details.aspx?id=43264#sthash.WQbsiwMO.dpuf

Howard Shaffer, Ph.D. and an associate professor at Harvard Medical School and director of the division on addiction at The Cambridge Health Alliance, was not involved in the research yet agreed that the work “seems a reasonable heads-up for clinicians to consider the role of impulsivity and its impact on suicidal ideation and behavior; kleptomania is one kind of proxy for impulsivity.”

http://www.sovalumni.com/klepto-yoy...cide-and-and-possible-treatment-for-stealing/

 

[kittychi]

^ I don't get the connection here between Rebecca getting caught shoplifting and people with kleptomania more likely to be suicidal.

And impulsivity is something very much more attached to Dina than to Rebecca, based on known history. My hunch is that there is a lot more of DS's impulsivity buried in that locked JS / DS divorce file. IMO

 

[inthedark14]

So according to dede...RZ may have shoplifted for a myriad of reasons...

While I agree that a study of the reasons for committing the crime can be useful. Do we have anything indicating that RZ was actually indicted and convicted of this offense?

Even if RZ was guilty of shoplifting this does not mean that she was guilty of anything else and certainly is no indication of her being violent or unstable in any way .

It certainly doesn't give proof that she would commit a complicated and impossible suicide because she received bad news from her boyfriend about poor MS.

Let's take a moment and think about this...if RZ was in any way responsible for what happened to MS the investigation would be public record.

LE doesn't give a fig if the perpetrator of a crime has died be it by accident, murder or their own hand they will state that the person has commited or is suspected of a crime.

LE never ever stated that RZ was suspected of any crime and never stated that she was in any way shape or form under investigation for what happened to MS.

The only speculation about that has come from...well...we all know ...

Blaming a dead (murdered) person for the tragic death of another just makes everyone involved look more suspicious. That pesky MOTIVE thing.

Linking the LE findings that say the person you believe is responsible for the death of MS then stating that LE got her death right but was mistaken for his makes you obvious.

Also...welcome Jillycat! Always refreshing to hear a new voice.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[jillycat]

So according to dede...RZ may have shoplifted for a myriad of reasons...

While I agree that a study of the reasons for committing the crime can be useful. Do we have anything indicating that RZ was actually indicted and convicted of this offense?

Even if RZ was guilty of shoplifting this does not mean that she was guilty of anything else and certainly is no indication of her being violent or unstable in any way .

It certainly doesn't give proof that she would commit a complicated and impossible suicide because she received bad news from her boyfriend about poor MS.

Let's take a moment and think about this...if RZ was in any way responsible for what happened to MS the investigation would be public record.

LE doesn't give a fig if the perpetrator of a crime has died be it by accident, murder or their own hand they will state that the person has commited or is suspected of a crime.

LE never ever stated that RZ was suspected of any crime and never stated that she was in any way shape or form under investigation for what happened to MS.

The only speculation about that has come from...well...we all know ...

Blaming a dead (murdered) person for the tragic death of another just makes everyone involved look more suspicious. That pesky MOTIVE thing.

Linking the LE findings that say the person you believe is responsible for the death of MS then stating that LE got her death right but was mistaken for his makes you obvious.

Also...welcome Jillycat! Always refreshing to hear a new voice.

ALWAYS MOO

Thank you for the welcome!

And I too am not seeing any connection between what is presumably a one time shoplifting crime, and impulsivity to the point of using such dramatic means to end one's life.

I'm bothered by the sheriff's remarks about the family's denial, where he essentially said the case for suicide was laid out to the family, but they just wouldn't accept it. This is like saying, "We came up with a possibility that explains what we can't otherwise explain, and we'd like for you to now embrace how we made all the pieces fit after we jammed them into the spaces we had available."

I'm not saying the authorities lied to the family. I'm saying that if you first observe that something appears "suspicious" and "violent", the inability to prove it shouldn't equal an appeal to an alternative that has just as little proof, but is theoretically (or by demonstration of a person under no emotional duress binding herself with rope) a possibility.

In the case of the latter, where did the demonstrator get her rope? Did she have to scout it after receiving devastating news, and while hunting for rope, also gather knives and paintbrushes, and think through where to scrawl a message in paint, then choose the brush best suited for the scrawling, and arrive at the decision to use a door for her painted message? Did the demonstrator have to measure the rope and consider how to cut and tie it to ensure her demise if she dropped off a balcony she also didn't measure? Did she hop, skip, or leap to the balcony and throw herself off, and in what direction? Head first? Did she lean onto the edge and roll off sideways?

Or was she essentially an actor in no acute distress, state of guilt, or depression showing us on video how it's possible to bind oneself, IF you know enough about knot tying?

So for me, the question is, how could any family member in these circumstances not be entirely skeptical? I don't know if their case can be won, and I honestly don't know if they're accurate about what happened, but I think RZ deserves more than a suicide ruling for how she ended up the way she did. JMO

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Where did I accuse Dina, Nina, and Adam of killing Rebecca over Max?

If you read my posts, I reject the ruling based on, not who I think killed her, but the wild scenario of her becoming so distraught as a result of a phone message that she set out on a meticulous, tedious, thoughtful journey to suicide - by searching for rope, measuring and cutting the rope, binding and gagging herself to ensure that when she hopped or hurled herself over the balcony, her expert knot-tying left her hanging enough above the ground that she would expire, and couldn't scream for rescue. And somewhere in this long road to ending her acutely painful feelings of guilt, she decided to perform these tasks in the nude, while apparently menstruating, and was also mindful enough to get a brush and some paint and scrawl cryptic graffiti on a door?

I don't think so. JMO

Fifteen detectives from three different agencies that worked the case for seven weeks disagree with you and found it was a suicide. You may not agree, but they are the ones that saw the scene first hand and all the evidence.

The Zahaus - after four years and eight versions of their WDS, have not one come up with ONE smidgen of evidence that places anyone other than Rebecca on that balcony and in that room.

The investigators had seven weeks to investigate Rebecca's death. The two people involved in Max's accident fled the scene less than 48 hours after his fall. XZ was whisked to Mary's house and Rebecca committed suicide. The Coronado police that were on the scene of Max's accident did not even check to see if XZ's hair was wet. Rebecca's death was investigated by FOUR different late enforcement agencies, and they found ONLY Rebecca was involved.

Rebecca certainly didn't stick around to face the questions of Child Protective Services. Pretty hard to investigate the accident when the adult responsible takes her own life.

JMO

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The

Only ONE of two things can be true here:

1. Dina has irrefutable proof of where she was and WANTS to continue spending tons of money, time and energy rather than file a Motion of Summary Judgment

Or

2. She has no proof of her whereabouts and is guilty of murder.



IMO

Very faulty logic there.

Nonetheless, Dina has proof that she was at Rady's which the detectives that worked the case have and have sworn to under deposition.

Dina has filed a Motion to Dismiss, which will be heard in February, and then the case will be over and the Zahaus will have to accept that Rebecca killed herself and that they will never get rich from trying to frame innocent people.

JMO