WV WV - Leah Hickman, 21, Huntington, 14 Dec 2007 - #1
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Here, Christine:
NG transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/20/ng.01.html (more at link)
BROOKS: Now, tell me also, this area -- now, here`s some abandoned homes, abandoned apartments. Describe the area and tell me, how is the crime in this particular neighborhood?
WILLIAMS: Basically, it`s about average, nothing really major here in the last several years, as far as that immediate area of the house. But it is located, as was said, alongside a railroad track, an industrial section of town.
BROOKS: So what you`re telling me, Sergeant, is that, basically, there has been assaults. There have been no sexual assaults in this particular area, any other part (ph), what offense (ph), you know, burglaries, robberies, these kind of things?
WILLIAMS: Yes, we have those sporadically throughout the neighborhood, but no more than anywhere else in town.
BROOKS: But none any time -- any -- within the recent week or so.
WILLIAMS: No, sir. We`ve checked into that.
BROOKS: What about surveillance cameras? You know, as a former investigator, one of the things we always used to do is go out to the scene and take a look, look around and see if there`s any buildings in the neighborhood with any surveillance cameras that may have pointed to the front or rear of this building where she lived. Anything at all like that?
WILLIAMS: No, sir. The closest place that had any type of cameras was a convenience store about four blocks away.
NG transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/20/ng.01.html (more at link)
BROOKS: Now, tell me also, this area -- now, here`s some abandoned homes, abandoned apartments. Describe the area and tell me, how is the crime in this particular neighborhood?
WILLIAMS: Basically, it`s about average, nothing really major here in the last several years, as far as that immediate area of the house. But it is located, as was said, alongside a railroad track, an industrial section of town.
BROOKS: So what you`re telling me, Sergeant, is that, basically, there has been assaults. There have been no sexual assaults in this particular area, any other part (ph), what offense (ph), you know, burglaries, robberies, these kind of things?
WILLIAMS: Yes, we have those sporadically throughout the neighborhood, but no more than anywhere else in town.
BROOKS: But none any time -- any -- within the recent week or so.
WILLIAMS: No, sir. We`ve checked into that.
BROOKS: What about surveillance cameras? You know, as a former investigator, one of the things we always used to do is go out to the scene and take a look, look around and see if there`s any buildings in the neighborhood with any surveillance cameras that may have pointed to the front or rear of this building where she lived. Anything at all like that?
WILLIAMS: No, sir. The closest place that had any type of cameras was a convenience store about four blocks away.
More about RSO's etc:
BROOKS: Sergeant Williams -- again, from -- he`s from the Huntington Police Department, investigating the missing student -- you know, with no pings, with no activity at all on the ATM, who are you -- have you looked at any sex offenders in the area at all?
WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. In fact, today the West Virginia State Police were out in numbers, tracking down any possible offenders that are in this area and interviewing them.
BROOKS: Well, you know, I looked myself today on the West Virginia -- on the West Virginia sex offender registry, and within Huntington, it -- within the city of Huntington, there are 100 registered sex offenders who are wanted right now for not complying with the West Virginia law.
(They also talk about bloodhounds later that tracked a scent to the driveway. Does that mean it was a cadaver dog though? Aren't those two different types of dogs?)
BROOKS: Sergeant Williams -- again, from -- he`s from the Huntington Police Department, investigating the missing student -- you know, with no pings, with no activity at all on the ATM, who are you -- have you looked at any sex offenders in the area at all?
WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. In fact, today the West Virginia State Police were out in numbers, tracking down any possible offenders that are in this area and interviewing them.
BROOKS: Well, you know, I looked myself today on the West Virginia -- on the West Virginia sex offender registry, and within Huntington, it -- within the city of Huntington, there are 100 registered sex offenders who are wanted right now for not complying with the West Virginia law.
(They also talk about bloodhounds later that tracked a scent to the driveway. Does that mean it was a cadaver dog though? Aren't those two different types of dogs?)
LionRun
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Hi Taximom:blowkiss:. As always it is sooo nice to see you! The Bloodhounds may have been trailing live human scent. Bloodhounds are not generally trained as cadaver or human remains detections dogs. Does anyone have any info on the dogs used initially--if it was even done? IIRC, dogs were used when Leah first disappeared and did not get a hit. Is this accurate? I would like to know what type of dogs may have been used and where they searched. There may me a reasonable explanation as to why the dogs may have not gotten a hit during the search.
Lion
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SuziQ
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The video titled 11PM Saturday coverage, talks about two other recent murders.
http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/12576086.html#
http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/12576086.html#
christine2448
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I was thinking GOOD QUESTION Taxi, about the dogs and was wondering, then Lion jumped right in. Soooo, there IS a difference? One type of dog may not have hit on the sent of death? Can't they be trained for both? (hope my questions aren't silly). If not, why not always have BOTH types of dogs out on a case like this?
Taxi..thanks for all the transcripts. At least we know LE is thinking along the same lines. That's what matters. That they are looking into all crimes, SO's, have looked for video, yada yada, LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE LOOKED IN THE BASEMENT ON DAY ONE. Ok, sorry, I will not yell anymore today.
Check it out, the video, 4 blocks away. What would it hurt to have someone look at it? Never know. 4 blocks isn't that far and maybe just far enough to have stopped in without worry (if premed)?
Taxi..thanks for all the transcripts. At least we know LE is thinking along the same lines. That's what matters. That they are looking into all crimes, SO's, have looked for video, yada yada, LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE LOOKED IN THE BASEMENT ON DAY ONE. Ok, sorry, I will not yell anymore today.
Check it out, the video, 4 blocks away. What would it hurt to have someone look at it? Never know. 4 blocks isn't that far and maybe just far enough to have stopped in without worry (if premed)?
LionRun
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Taximom, to further elaborate, yes the two types of training are different. In fact, there are many types of search dogs. There are search dogs that are trained to detect and alert to live human scent only--though they may alert to remains if they detect that scent. There are cadaver dogs, human remains detection dogs, avalanche dogs, disaster search dogs, water search dogs, and more.
Some dogs are trained only to trail (i.e. Bloodhounds), but a dog is capable of using three basic scent techniques-tracking (not used much in the real world), trailing, and air scenting. BTW, Bloodhounds do not track. They trail human scent. Tracking actually has nothing to do with human scent, but that is another mini-book. I just wanted to clarify what I meant because if I say that tracking is not often used, people will question the common use of the word. Sometimes the word, "tracking" is used incorrectly to describe a dog that is trailing or air scenting.
Lion
Some dogs are trained only to trail (i.e. Bloodhounds), but a dog is capable of using three basic scent techniques-tracking (not used much in the real world), trailing, and air scenting. BTW, Bloodhounds do not track. They trail human scent. Tracking actually has nothing to do with human scent, but that is another mini-book. I just wanted to clarify what I meant because if I say that tracking is not often used, people will question the common use of the word. Sometimes the word, "tracking" is used incorrectly to describe a dog that is trailing or air scenting.
Lion
christine2448
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What other 2 recent murders (not yelling), I don't see anything, help?
I just read this transcript posted by Taxi
BROOKS: Now, tell me also, this area -- now, here`s some abandoned homes, abandoned apartments. Describe the area and tell me, how is the crime in this particular neighborhood?
WILLIAMS: Basically, it`s about average, nothing really major here in the last several years, as far as that immediate area of the house. But it is located, as was said, alongside a railroad track, an industrial section of town.
BROOKS: So what you`re telling me, Sergeant, is that, basically, there has been assaults. There have been no sexual assaults in this particular area, any other part (ph), what offense (ph), you know, burglaries, robberies, these kind of things?
WILLIAMS: Yes, we have those sporadically throughout the neighborhood, but no more than anywhere else in town.
concernedperson
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Christine, it was the video on the right side of the page that Suzi provided. One was a stabbing of a man and the other was a shooting of a man. This crime against Leah seems to be a different MO and unrelated to the others. JMO.
christine2448
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SuziQ
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Good morning Christine, in the link I posted there is a video and in it they reporter talks to people at Kroegers grocery store near Leah's house. They discuss how three murders have changed their lives. The other two were men, one was a stabbing and the other I can't remember.
SuziQ
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I think it's unrelated as well. I just wanted to post it because others here were asking what kind of area this was and what kind of crimes happen there.
Thanks for the info, LionRun. It's nice to see you too! :blowkiss: I wish in all cases both types of dogs were used. They might have found her body sooner.
I still haven't found the video that I saw with the keys/clothes. Argh.
I still haven't found the video that I saw with the keys/clothes. Argh.
LionRun
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Christine, your questions are very good. There are dogs trained to alert to both live human scent and remains. But, often two dogs are used for these two types of work. It takes a specially selected dog, with marked ability, drive, intelligence, and a particular temperament for a dog to be trained for this work. Some dogs can be trained in more than one area, but these dogs are multi talented, exceptional animals compared with the already gifted search dogs.
Then there is the trainer/handler. It takes a great deal of work that never ends to train and keep mission ready through rigorous training. A trainer/handler must first possess the ability to do such specialized training, and then it takes years to become truly proficient.
Additionally, this is volunteer work, our expenses are high, and training is almost daily in all weather at all times of the day. Also, we must first have jobs where we can bolt from to do a search where we don't know when we will be back.
As a result there are not a whole lot of search dog teams out there, and we just do what we can do. My beautiful dog Spirit, a wonderful SAR dog died suddenly last February, and Falcon, my beautiful show/SAR dog had to have his spleen removed in May and nearly died of aspiration pneumonia two months ago. As a result I had no choice but to retire him. So, I am going to either breed or buy a new puppy in the relatively near future. I can't wait! I will be sure to take Falcon out on some training in good conditions and include him whenever possible. They do know when they get left behind. Falcon will never be left behind, especially in my heart.
Lion
Then there is the trainer/handler. It takes a great deal of work that never ends to train and keep mission ready through rigorous training. A trainer/handler must first possess the ability to do such specialized training, and then it takes years to become truly proficient.
Additionally, this is volunteer work, our expenses are high, and training is almost daily in all weather at all times of the day. Also, we must first have jobs where we can bolt from to do a search where we don't know when we will be back.
As a result there are not a whole lot of search dog teams out there, and we just do what we can do. My beautiful dog Spirit, a wonderful SAR dog died suddenly last February, and Falcon, my beautiful show/SAR dog had to have his spleen removed in May and nearly died of aspiration pneumonia two months ago. As a result I had no choice but to retire him. So, I am going to either breed or buy a new puppy in the relatively near future. I can't wait! I will be sure to take Falcon out on some training in good conditions and include him whenever possible. They do know when they get left behind. Falcon will never be left behind, especially in my heart.
Lion
LionRun
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Oops, forgot. Yes, depending on the case it would be ideal to have dogs trained in various methods available for all cases where a dog could be uselful--missing, article search, disaster, avalanche, water search, live human, human remains detection, etc..
Lion
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concernedperson
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I do have a question for you about dogs. How soon would the average cadaver dog be able to pick up a scent? Also, do you know of any chemical agent that could prevent this scent from being recognizable to a cadaver dog. i.e. lime, chlorine, etc?
jessica_fletcher_wv
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Let me say that first I know NOTHING about SAR dogs. But what I just thought was--the focus was on finding a missing person at first, NOT finding a body (or at least I assume that is true).
I remember reading that it traced her scent from the apartment to the parking lot and then came to a dead end, BUT I am wondering if the dog actually traced Leah's route BACKWARD. In other words, Leah came from the car (after her McDonald's trip) to the apartment and the dog traced the scent backwards (from the apartment to the car), thus throwing investigators off into believing she had been abducted instead of believing her body was still on the premises.
But if that was the case, I have to think she was probably taken from the apartment to the laundry room in the plastic. OKAY--sorry, I'm theory-ful!
I remember reading that it traced her scent from the apartment to the parking lot and then came to a dead end, BUT I am wondering if the dog actually traced Leah's route BACKWARD. In other words, Leah came from the car (after her McDonald's trip) to the apartment and the dog traced the scent backwards (from the apartment to the car), thus throwing investigators off into believing she had been abducted instead of believing her body was still on the premises.
But if that was the case, I have to think she was probably taken from the apartment to the laundry room in the plastic. OKAY--sorry, I'm theory-ful!
concernedperson
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I agree she was taken from the apartment to the laundry room in the plastic. The only other tenant was the man who was out of town so the building was empty.
LionRun
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Yes it is possible that a dog may trail backwards. It can depend on where the handler starts the search in cases where trailing is used. If they had the dog team begin in the parking lot, the dog may have trailed back to the apartment. But, unless there was some known reason to start in the p lot (i.e. an article of her clothing was found there), the more obvious place to start would have been at the front or back door to the apartment.
A skilled handler would know that he/she may be trailing in reverse. In fact, they may have figured that as a possibility and it simply didn't get to the media. That the dog trailed from the front door to the p lot means that either she went from the p lot to her home, or she went from her home to the p lot and back home again. Or she took an additional path that the dog did not detect. Either way, had a body not been discovered by now, we would still have evidence that she may still be in the area. It could have turned out differently.
Had her body(not ID'd yet, but it is likely dear Leah) not been found the dog evidence also suggests the possibility that she went to the p lot and got in an auto with someone--hence the trail dead-ended. In a case like this I may have wanted to find a second handler/dog (trailing dog) team and started at her car to see where that leads. I would then start the dog at the door to her home and see where that leads.
One thing I would like to know is if the dog was reliably trained for a specific scent search based on a properly handled article of Leah's or not. If this dog was simply trailing a person's scent who came from that apartment, it could have been anyone's scent (who walked that path forward or in reverse or both) he/she was trailing--including the suspect's. I imagine LE and the handler/dog team have likely thought about this.
Chlorine bleach used, "properly" in the proper concentrations where it is sprayed over every square inch and left to Kill the microorganisms that produce the decomp odors can inhibit a dog to a point. This is because the odor is caused by microorganisms and their by-products. If they are destroyed, then the odor they cause disperses fairly quickly. But, disinfecting anything but smooth, non-porous surfaces would be tough, and the dog would likely scent correctly despite such cleaning.
Theoretically, it may be possible to thwart a good human remains detection dog. If one placed a body in a strong bleach solution inside a closed container in a way that the body was fully immersed in solution, and adding more strong bleach solution daily (bleach breaks down over time). But, we all know now that that is not what happened here.
Overall, cadaver dogs/human remains detection dogs use air scenting and trailing as they search for odors. They are trained to search for the body, body parts, body fluids, clothing and earth with decomp scent, and pretty much anything possible that could have decomp scent on it.
I don't know why the dog(s) missed this. Maybe it wasn't a cadaver dog. Maybe they could have used more training. If a skilled, well trained cadaver dog/handler team were used and searched generally in the correct area, I am surprised if they missed her.
I cannot recall factually how long a person would need to have been deceased before a well trained, mission ready cadaver dog can accurately detect decomp scent. Some would depend on the climate, including humidity levels and temperature. It would also depend on the condition of the body. Victims with open injuries tend to decomp at a faster rate at least early on. I was told at a seminar years ago that it can take as little time as an hour in the right conditions for a dog to detect decay.
Lion
A skilled handler would know that he/she may be trailing in reverse. In fact, they may have figured that as a possibility and it simply didn't get to the media. That the dog trailed from the front door to the p lot means that either she went from the p lot to her home, or she went from her home to the p lot and back home again. Or she took an additional path that the dog did not detect. Either way, had a body not been discovered by now, we would still have evidence that she may still be in the area. It could have turned out differently.
Had her body(not ID'd yet, but it is likely dear Leah) not been found the dog evidence also suggests the possibility that she went to the p lot and got in an auto with someone--hence the trail dead-ended. In a case like this I may have wanted to find a second handler/dog (trailing dog) team and started at her car to see where that leads. I would then start the dog at the door to her home and see where that leads.
One thing I would like to know is if the dog was reliably trained for a specific scent search based on a properly handled article of Leah's or not. If this dog was simply trailing a person's scent who came from that apartment, it could have been anyone's scent (who walked that path forward or in reverse or both) he/she was trailing--including the suspect's. I imagine LE and the handler/dog team have likely thought about this.
Chlorine bleach used, "properly" in the proper concentrations where it is sprayed over every square inch and left to Kill the microorganisms that produce the decomp odors can inhibit a dog to a point. This is because the odor is caused by microorganisms and their by-products. If they are destroyed, then the odor they cause disperses fairly quickly. But, disinfecting anything but smooth, non-porous surfaces would be tough, and the dog would likely scent correctly despite such cleaning.
Theoretically, it may be possible to thwart a good human remains detection dog. If one placed a body in a strong bleach solution inside a closed container in a way that the body was fully immersed in solution, and adding more strong bleach solution daily (bleach breaks down over time). But, we all know now that that is not what happened here.
Overall, cadaver dogs/human remains detection dogs use air scenting and trailing as they search for odors. They are trained to search for the body, body parts, body fluids, clothing and earth with decomp scent, and pretty much anything possible that could have decomp scent on it.
I don't know why the dog(s) missed this. Maybe it wasn't a cadaver dog. Maybe they could have used more training. If a skilled, well trained cadaver dog/handler team were used and searched generally in the correct area, I am surprised if they missed her.
I cannot recall factually how long a person would need to have been deceased before a well trained, mission ready cadaver dog can accurately detect decomp scent. Some would depend on the climate, including humidity levels and temperature. It would also depend on the condition of the body. Victims with open injuries tend to decomp at a faster rate at least early on. I was told at a seminar years ago that it can take as little time as an hour in the right conditions for a dog to detect decay.
Lion
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