GUILTY WV - Skylar Neese, 16, Star City, 6 July 2012

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So what benefit does Shoaf get? She agreed to be tried as an adult correct? I'm just confused why people are thinking she is getting out easy. I totally believe all of you, I just want to know how so.


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Rachel got a deal, her charge was reduced from 1st degree murder to second degree murder. She will serve 20 years, instead of life without parole, which is the penalty for 1st degree murder in West Virginia.

Though she did agree to be charged as an adult, she really didn't have much of a choice there. As there was significant evidence that she committed murder, she would have been tried as an adult regardless. Her defense team will ask the judge to sentence her as a juvenile, which I think people are worried about, because they are concerned she will get less than 20yrs. I also think people believe 20 years is not enough for murdering your "best friend" and then lying about it for months and covering it up. She will get out of jail in her mid thirties with most of her life still ahead of her, and I think people find that unfair.

While it would be nice for her to get more time, I don't know all the details of what happened. I have to believe the deal was made in an effort to charge the leader (SE) with 1st degree murder and secure a conviction that would not be attainable without Rachel's testimony. If the only way to ensure SE gets life is to give Shoaf a deal of 20 years, then that will have to be good enough (for now anyway, unless they can charge her with other things to add more time, lying to police, hindering an investigation etc).
 
Does anyone know if the police had evidence against the killers or did RS confess?

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According to RUMORS, Skylar was moved from a golf course after her death to the location where RS led LE. I don't understand how there could not be more evidence. Unless LE firmly dropped the ball in the beginning. It appears that her "runaway" status caused alot of lost evidence. JUST RUMORS!!!!!
 
I've heard MULTIPLE rumors about that also, sadnpod. Online and around town. Which is really, really disgusting if you ask me. First of all, and this is really vulgar, but wouldn't the body have been very badly decomposed at that point (when they were rumored to have moved the body?). To me, that must have meant that the body was encased in something? That's just really sick.

If those rumors are true, then other rumors I've been hearing about other accomplices seem even more likely to be true. I've heard it's not just RS and SE, but at least a few other people...some male, some female...who are peripherally involved with the crime. As in, they aren't the killers, but they were co-conspirators/helped hide and move the body/hid knowledge of the crime. I wouldn't put much stock into the fact that a certain person seems to be feigning shock and innocence on their Twitter account, personally.

Again, just rumors, but it makes a LOT more sense than RS and SE acting totally alone. They had help in this crime. Some people knew way too many details before they were made public. I've always felt there were males involved with the moving/disposal of Skylar and rumors or not, to me it seems to appear that it was the case. JMO

"No further arrests will be made at this time..." Keywords being, "at this time".
 
Rachel got a deal, her charge was reduced from 1st degree murder to second degree murder. She will serve 20 years, instead of life without parole, which is the penalty for 1st degree murder in West Virginia.

Though she did agree to be charged as an adult, she really didn't have much of a choice there. As there was significant evidence that she committed murder, she would have been tried as an adult regardless. Her defense team will ask the judge to sentence her as a juvenile, which I think people are worried about, because they are concerned she will get less than 20yrs. I also think people believe 20 years is not enough for murdering your "best friend" and then lying about it for months and covering it up. She will get out of jail in her mid thirties with most of her life still ahead of her, and I think people find that unfair.

While it would be nice for her to get more time, I don't know all the details of what happened. I have to believe the deal was made in an effort to charge the leader (SE) with 1st degree murder and secure a conviction that would not be attainable without Rachel's testimony. If the only way to ensure SE gets life is to give Shoaf a deal of 20 years, then that will have to be good enough (for now anyway, unless they can charge her with other things to add more time, lying to police, hindering an investigation etc).

:jail:

Federal kidnapping charges carry a possible life sentence (no death penalty if she were certified as an adult since she was a juvenile at the time of the crime); for some reason the maximum prison term for a non-ransom kidnapping in West Virginia is ten years).

So they throw the book at SE--maybe the WV prosecutor but more likely the feds (note that it was the U.S. Attorney who said that "charges are pending against a second juvenile" following Shoaf's May 1st plea appearance in state court) with Shoaf's help and get a state or federal 1st degree murder conviction (and/or a federal kidnapping conviction), along with the accompanying life sentence(s), and then....

The plea agreement ONLY covers the 2nd degree murder charge--any allegation of kidnapping is not mentioned and so is not an element/fact of the murder; Shoaf is pleading guilty to causing Skylar's death by stabbing her, and nothing more. If there were to be other crimes charged, as long as they are separate and distinct crimes that didn't rely on the same facts or elements to prove them as were relied upon for the initial conviction (or in this case, the offense charged in the plea agreement), then double jeopardy would not attach. I hope Shoaf's family didn't pay too much for those lawyers...she may well be getting a nasty surprise from my friends in the U.S. Attorney's office.

Of course, she could try to withdraw the plea and go to trial...but something tells me that she's already given a deposition regarding SE's involvement (and may have even testified to the grand jury), so the impact on SE would be minimal--she would likely still be convicted at trial. And if Shoaf was able to withdraw the plea and the prosecution then needed more testimony or evidence in order to try her, once they have used Shoaf's information to convict SE, I imagine that SE would be more than willing to give ol' Rachel a taste of her own medicine.

Isn't it nifty how that works?

Incidentally, it would be difficult for Shoaf to withdraw the plea once it has been accepted by the court; she would have to be able to prove that some issue of fairness or justice demanded the plea be voided...such as coercion or lack of full explanation by her counsel, along with some evidence that had those things not transpired she wouldn't have accepted the plea...and those are things that the court makes sure didn't occur every time they accept a guilty plea pursuant to a plea agreement. They have a whole little spiel where the defendant is questioned as to whether they entered the plea freely/voluntarily (i.e. without coercion), and with full knowledge of the consequences of that plea deal. Shoaf could say that her attorney's didn't tell her she could be charged with additional crimes later on...but they'll never admit to that (to do so would open the door to an ineffective assistance of counsel claim, reversal of the conviction, and, most pertinently for the lawyers, possible disciplinary action by the bar), and the court wouldn't have accepted the plea had they not been satisfied from Rachel's own mouth that she hadn't been coerced and that she was fully aware of the consequences.

Sorry for the long post, folks.
 
I've heard MULTIPLE rumors about that also, sadnpod. Online and around town. Which is really, really disgusting if you ask me. First of all, and this is really vulgar, but wouldn't the body have been very badly decomposed at that point (when they were rumored to have moved the body?). To me, that must have meant that the body was encased in something? That's just really sick.

If those rumors are true, then other rumors I've been hearing about other accomplices seem even more likely to be true. I've heard it's not just RS and SE, but at least a few other people...some male, some female...who are peripherally involved with the crime. As in, they aren't the killers, but they were co-conspirators/helped hide and move the body/hid knowledge of the crime. I wouldn't put much stock into the fact that a certain person seems to be feigning shock and innocence on their Twitter account, personally.

Again, just rumors, but it makes a LOT more sense than RS and SE acting totally alone. They had help in this crime. Some people knew way too many details before they were made public. I've always felt there were males involved with the moving/disposal of Skylar and rumors or not, to me it seems to appear that it was the case. JMO

"No further arrests will be made at this time..." Keywords being, "at this time".

Absolutely agree.

This is way too involved for it to have been carried out solely by two teenaged girls with no serious criminal experience...and too many people seem to have knowledge of the events (all rumor for the most part, sure, but a lot of what we have heard has checked out) for there not to have been others involved.

As far as SA is concerned, my gut feeling is she was there that night, and even if she didn't participate in the actual killing, she witnessed at least some of it and/or the aftermath. Remember, when this first broke, there were said to have been three girls in the car that picked Skylar up...and SA hasn't ever really said anything to confirm or refute that. Given the relationship of SA, SE, and RS with Skylar, I'd say that's a distinct possibility. Maybe SA hasn't cooperated, but that doesn't mean she was involved---from what I hear, SE is a bit, shall we say, unpredictable in mood and demeanor...maybe SA is afraid to say anything. We'll see if that continues to be the case now that SE is in custody (if, of course, SA really knows anything).

And the possible males involved, who knows? DC the elder...DC the younger...SE's dad...I've heard them all mentioned, but it's still just speculation until we hear from the only ones who can say for sure.

I know I've become the king of the long posts, but I want to say again, as a parent, how very sad this case makes me. I was reading through Sky's old Twitter posts and looking at her Instagram and it struck me once more how horrible this all is. She was there one minute, posting a picture of her dog and cat...and then just gone. Her poor parents---I don't know how or if *I* could ever get over something like this...especially if it were an only child. Just to come home and not have her there, and to see all the other kids her age going to prom, or driving by her work...it's just heartbreaking. And nothing that happens or that has happened ever since her parents last saw her that night will ever change any of that.

Maybe the saddest thing of all is that this seems to be indicative of where our society is heading, and that the one bit of good you might think would come of resolution to this case--the deterrent factor for other kids who would possibly do something so sinister--will not exist for them. I don't have a solution, and I don't think anyone does, but it's so sad to see these incidents becoming more and more common in our world.
 
Thank you isn't enough for the "long" posts Charger. IIRC, and Ive been looking for a post on it.. I think SA was out of town when Skylar was murdered? Does anyone else remember this?
 
Thank you isn't enough for the "long" posts Charger. IIRC, and Ive been looking for a post on it.. I think SA was out of town when Skylar was murdered? Does anyone else remember this?

Didn't she come back early, and it was the boyfriend who stayed? I think they had gone to the beach.
 
I heard SA *was* in town at the time of the murder. There are rumors both ways, that she was in town, that she was at the beach. I don't know what the truth is, but I do know that SA and ML are standing by their friend in jail - despite some initial "OMG I am so shocked!" comments on Twitter. I think SA WAS shocked, that SE got caught. I believe SA knows exactly what happened to Skylar and has known all along and played right into SE and Shoaf's coverup. What other possible role she may or may not have had with the murder is unknown, but I did hear rumors of a girl other than just SE or Shoaf being in the car when they picked Skylar up that night. Don't know if there is any truth to that...

JMO
 
Mmmmm....check it out. One of Skylar's friends--a REAL friend, one that I'm actually kind of worried about for a variety of reasons (read his posts and you'll see what I mean)

snipped by me

Ahh, Charger. Those tweets make me so sad. I think people are watching out for him, but I just want to protect him and I don't know him from Adam. :(

Do kids on Twitter truly comprehend that the general public can read these thoughts? I mean, do they really, really get it? As a mom, I fret. (I also have all my kids' passwords. They know no other way.)
 
Mmmmm....check it out. One of Skylar's friends--a REAL friend, one that I'm actually kind of worried about for a variety of reasons (read his posts and you'll see what I mean)--posted this early this morning:
‏
@danniboi_95 16h
Hey Rachel, how's that scar on your knee doing? Mary told me everything. My girl didn't die without a fight, *****.

Anyone wanna guess who "Mary" is? I think I have it pegged.


I feel like this friend has been helping LE since the start. I believe he worked with Skylar and they were friends. IMO I think he might testify in the trail against the girls or he might have information regarding what was going on between them all before Skylar dissapeared. Seems like someone who genuinely cares.
 
Kids use twitter nowadays the way we used diaries or journals. Only our journals we strove very hard to keep private and tweets are very public.

Strange Phenomenon.
 
Kids use twitter nowadays the way we used diaries or journals. Only our journals we strove very hard to keep private and tweets are very public.

Strange Phenomenon.

Exactly. Kids seem to have NO comprehension that what they're doing is out there for everyone to see, NEVER goes away, and can have a detrimental effect on their lives YEARS later.

I would LOVE to see this case get picked up by the media as an example of how social media can be one's undoing.

It's weird that as an adult we can realize these things, and not go posting inflammatory or potentially damaging commentary in a public place (at least not under our real name :cool:), but we can't impress upon our children the hazards of doing that very thing. They need to SEE the damage before they GET damaged---sometimes that's the only thing they understand...
 
I would like to find out who were those mysterious people on Twitter, who tweeted hints @ SE, SA and RS. They knew what had happened. Back in January I tried to track down their IP's but didn't get them.
 
Here's information from yesterday's Dominion Post (which is a paid subscription):

"Star City Polic Chief Vic Propst thinks the case against the unidentified teen will soon be transferred to adult status. He expects the case to be transferred at her preliminary hearing which must be held within 10 days of her arrest. No further information has been released."

Also, someone mentioned that the body was originally placed near a golf course.... OK, here's a zinger... the Conaways live beside the golf course in Blacksville. There's your connection!!! (IF it is true!) :twocents:
 
I believe they put the squeeze on her, and she finally fessed up.

Rumor on Topix is that RS went to Chestnut Ridge Mental Facility shortly after Christmas. I think this was after she and SE had a falling out and quit being best friends.
 
I believe they put the squeeze on her, and she finally fessed up.

Probably by using her minor status as a potentially lesser charge or some kind of bargaining tool.
So I have not read every page, but I did see somewhere that the friends just didn't like her anymore. Is that truly all it was ? No jealousy , no wrong doing, no back stabbing? It's so heartless. I've got a daughter that age and sometimes she and her friends are really SPATTY and I gotta say .....this case is making my mind wander and over analyze everything she tells me.
 
Probably by using her minor status as a potentially lesser charge or some kind of bargaining tool.
So I have not read every page, but I did see somewhere that the friends just didn't like her anymore. Is that truly all it was ? No jealousy , no wrong doing, no back stabbing? It's so heartless. I've got a daughter that age and sometimes she and her friends are really SPATTY and I gotta say .....this case is making my mind wander and over analyze everything she tells me.

Mine too.
 
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