WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #2

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And if I have made you angry I am sorry. Just trying to follow the clues and trying to see what makes sense. Not trying to make anyone angry.
 
Now, that photograph. I put in the numbers into the computer and it came up with an area that is in Sicily. So if you are right, and the children are still living, or were for quite some time after their abduction, I would start looking in Sicily. Here hold on let me show you.
 
Is Angela accounted for? In other words, is it possible the kids were taken away and had their first names changed? Odd, she is from Fayetteville. Also, one of her children is named Jennie. Just like the mother of the kids who died/disappeared.



Obituaries: Obit

From: Charleston Gazette | Date: 4/29/2004

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Angela Sodder Abbott
GRASS LAKE, Mich. -Angela Nicole Sodder Abbott, 30, formerly of Fayetteville, W.Va., passed away April 25, 2004, in Michigan.
She was a registered nurse at the Foote Hospital Emergency Room, a Special Olympics volunteer, a leader with the Irish Hills Girl Scout Council Brownie Pack, a dedicated caregiver and a loving daughter, granddaughter, wife and mother.
Survivors include her husband, Luke Abbott of Grass Lake, Mich.; three beautiful children, Jessica, Jennifer and ...
 
Vanished Without a TraceSave Email Print Reporter: Dana Brueck
Email Address: dbrueck@nbc15.com

A | A | A
Posted Monday --- February 25, 2008 -- 10:00pm
A Baraboo woman is hoping to solve a nearly 60-year-old family mystery. For years, siblings believed their 4-year-old sister died, but today, they're leading a widespread search to find her.
if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']){ document.write(plpm['Mid-Story Ad']);} else { if(self['plurp'] && plurp['97']){} else {document.write(''); } }if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');"My mom says Jeannie's an angel in heaven. And she says you don't ever say her name again," Sharon Mattson says, "We never did."
But with age came courage for Sharon Mattson.
"And then we started to talk about it."
It was December 19th, 1949.
"I was at school when it happened."
A fire leveled the Bryant family home ... "a week before Christmas" ... on this property in rural Mauston.
"It was just a great big farmhouse."
9 year-old Sharon watched the fire from a school window.
"They wouldn't let me go out. I could see the smoke coming out of the house and the flames."
Sharon's siblings 5-year-old Forrest, 4-year-old Ricky Jean and 18-month-old Elizabeth were at home with their grandparents.
"Grandma took care of us. She was more of a mother to us than our own mother."
Newspaper articles at the time tell of a dramatic 2nd story rescue of the children's grandpa by his elderly wife. But Ricky Jean, or Jeannie, was feared dead.
"I think it bothered him all of his life because I don't think he stuttered before the fire."
Sharon's brother, Forrest has told his sisters how he remembers leaving Elizabeth and Jeannie outside when a woman "... he said she was blonde ..." pulled up in a newer-looking car and told Forrest to get help. But, he says the woman sent him to a house down the road instead of one nearby.
"And when he come back... Jeannie was gone," Sharon says.
Investigators never could find any solid proof of Jeannie's death. The children's father, Raymond Bryant, searched the ruins himself.
"He was ashes from one end to the other and his face had ashes on just digging in trying to find her."
... Never truly believing he'd lost a daughter ...
"To his dying day, he said Jeannie, he didn't feel Jeannie was in that fire."
Sharon and her siblings began to wonder as well.
"None of us had the same story," Sharon says, "One of us was told she went through the stairway."
"Another one, they said, they just couldn't find Jeannie."
Sharon and her sister began a search to find Jeannie, seeking out people like Irene Carlson, a neighbor who supposedly followed Forrest back to the Bryant home the day of the fire.
"And she says, you know that poor little guy, I had to practically run to keep up to him, he took off so fast."
Decades later, Sharon says Carlson revealed a chilling conversation she'd had with their grandma.
"And my grandma, I guess, finally says ... well she isn't here. She's with relatives. You might as well go home."
Carlson's revelation, years after their mother -- Opal Bryant died -- added to the mystery surrounding her life and her relationship with her own mother, the grandma who raised them.
"My grandma never went anywhere. She was always covering up stuff my mom would do."
Sharon says throughout her childhood Opal would leave the family.
"She was never home. As soon as my dad go, about an hour later, she would take off."
Then, when the parents split, Opal moved to Washington state, where she re-married. Sharon stayed in Wisconsin with her father. She says Opal would return to the Midwest for weeks at a time though never revealing her exact whereabouts.
"She went and seen somebody... "
... Perhaps Ricky Jean?
Five years after the child's reported death, a cousin traveling through Georgia sent this postcard to Jeannie, where the family was living in Wisconsin. Sharon found it in her mother's belongings.
But nothing in her mother's past has allowed her to close the book on what happened to Jeannie. This is an age-enhanced photo of what her sister might look like today, when a reunion would come too late for their father but fulfill a family dream.
"My stepmother said, when he'd go to town, he'd check everybody about the age that should would be. He would keep looking for her."
Sharon's sister, Liz says shortly before her mother's death, Opal returned to the Midwest with a shirt and coveralls. The clothing -- belonging to Jeannie -- was on a clothes line the day of the fire. But when Opal came back to Washington, she no longer had the items. Liz believes Jeannie is somewhere in the region, and she thinks the clothing could be key in finding her.
The family's already tested one woman who proved not to be a match. Meanwhile, Juneau County investigators say a flood destroyed the sheriff's departments original records.
 
Obituaries: Obit

From: Charleston Gazette | Date: 4/29/2004

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Angela Sodder Abbott
GRASS LAKE, Mich. -Angela Nicole Sodder Abbott, 30, formerly of Fayetteville, W.Va., passed away April 25, 2004, in Michigan.
She was a registered nurse at the Foote Hospital Emergency Room, a Special Olympics volunteer, a leader with the Irish Hills Girl Scout Council Brownie Pack, a dedicated caregiver and a loving daughter, granddaughter, wife and mother.
Survivors include her husband, Luke Abbott of Grass Lake, Mich.; three beautiful children, Jessica, Jennifer and ...
Angela was a granddaughter of one of the Sodder sons-I think George, Jr but am not sure.
 
Yeah just wasn't sure if she was from another Sodder, one of the kids perhaps. Look I am not setting anything in stone yet. I going through each thing. Do me a favor everyone and please read the above account of the fire someone else had, in Wisconsin. It sounds like a very similar situation, only one child, however, was missing. But it wasn't that long after the first fire, and WI isn't THAT far from WV. And it says that these people recieved an anonymous postcard, just like the other family recieved an anonymous picture. I think they have quite a few similarities. What do you guys thing? Eerie coicidence, or the same people doing the same thing? Do you guys still think the mob did it? I'm just no convinced of that yet. Also if you guys could help me by searching for similar fires near these areas around the same years. Thanks!:confused:
 
Yeah just wasn't sure if she was from another Sodder, one of the kids perhaps. Look I am not setting anything in stone yet. I going through each thing. Do me a favor everyone and please read the above account of the fire someone else had, in Wisconsin. It sounds like a very similar situation, only one child, however, was missing. But it wasn't that long after the first fire, and WI isn't THAT far from WV. And it says that these people recieved an anonymous postcard, just like the other family recieved an anonymous picture. I think they have quite a few similarities. What do you guys thing? Eerie coicidence, or the same people doing the same thing? Do you guys still think the mob did it? I'm just no convinced of that yet. Also if you guys could help me by searching for similar fires near these areas around the same years. Thanks!:confused:
I am on the fence about whether the Sodder children died in the fire or were kidnapped.Although I had heard of the case most of my life, I had not heard of mafia involvement until I read this board. Before, I just thought someone had motive, means, and opportunity to do the crime. Someone who did not like Mr. Sodder, but did not want to see the smaller children die....or someone forbiding them to kill the younger children. Mr. Sodder did not get along with some of the Italian community. I do know if my house burned, and my children's bones were not found I would be wondering also.

I guess anything is possible. By some strange fluke maybe the children did die in the fire. But I too would be unable to accept that until I died.

So, I go back and forth in what I think. Please read the first thread if you have not. You will find it quite interesting, too.
 
Believe me, I'm not saying it was impossible for the kids to still be alive. I am not following my heart or anything else, I am simply trying to look at the evidence. Right now to me, it seems pretty far fetched. I understand the mafia was bad, I'm certainly not singing their praises. What I am saying is that I do not believe they would take away the kids. And usually, the simplest explanation is the right one. I think we as a society, tend to overthink things, and make mountains out of molehills. One thing I am willing to concede to however, is that it is entirely possible for the mafia to have started the fire. I do not believe the fire was started by faulty wiring. But I don't think the kids were taken alive by the mob.

Here are some things to support that.

First off, I think that no matter what, the kids would have made noise, and lots of it. Perhaps the older children would have kept quiet if there was a gun involved, but there was a five year old child. I think she would have been crying and screaming if someone took her from her bed.

Than there's the fact that no one has heard from these children for years and years and years. Eventually I think that curiousity would have gotten one of them. Someone would have wanted to visit their parent's grave, someone would have wanted to check to see if there were any aunts or uncles or cousins or anything out there, or one of the kid's kids would have come forward asking questions, about their parents growing up in WV, or the kids would have been told of the fire, or something. Curiousity, would get one of them. And don't tell me that keeping them in Italy would have stopped that.

The children stayed up later and their parents were in bed. They could have been lured out of the house some how and taken away. If it wasn't the Mafia then it was somebody else. They possibly could have even know the people or person. There could be many reasons why they never came back to search for their family. Children are kidnapped every day and told that their mom, dad or both of them didn't want them any more or that they died so they don't bother searching for them. Catsy have you read this post from the very beginning?

 
Do me a favor everyone and please read the above account of the fire someone else had, in Wisconsin. It sounds like a very similar situation, only one child, however, was missing.

Here's the thread for Ricky Jean Bryant here at Websleuths:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36630

To me it sounds like a different situation...as the article (in post#2 at the above link) states, Bryant's siblings think the fire was an excuse to quell suspicions about a child born out of wedlock.
 
First off, I think that no matter what, the kids would have made noise, and lots of it. Perhaps the older children would have kept quiet if there was a gun involved, but there was a five year old child. I think she would have been crying and screaming if someone took her from her bed.

The children stayed up later and their parents were in bed. They could have been lured out of the house some how and taken away.

I agree Teresa, and I was just about to post something similar - I think it's possible these kids never even went to bed. The 5 children who are unaccounted for are the same ones who asked to stay up later to play with their Christmas toys when everyone else went to bed. Here is the link to the Charley Project writeup which gives a good summary:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sodder_louis.html
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it seems like the children's most prominent characteristic is they all have really thick eyebrows. I mean, like caterpillar eyebrows. Especially Maurice. It's very noticeable. (The guy in the photo sent to the Sodders has the same thick eyebrows.) Unfortunately thick eyebrows are pretty easily made thin by means of tweezers, if you wanted to disguise a person.
 
In order to cover up a kidnapping, I think that's significant, and I may be wrong but...

The other thing is that perhaps the thing thrown on the roof could have been one of the kids Christmas toys. Could it be possible that the children were playing outside and accidentally caused a fire? Could they have gone outside with a light of some sort, a candle or something? Suddenly they knock it over, the house starts to go up, and one of the kids maybe throw one of their toys, (an army plastic toy) at the roof, trying to wake up the parents?

The problem I have with that theory is what happened to the children after that? Would they really be so scared that they caused a fire, to leave forever? Did they perhaps think they're parents died in this fire, and if they came forward they would be seen as murderers? I guess that could scare a kid to the point of leaving forever. But how would the oldest child take care of his siblings? He was only fourteen, right?

:confused:
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it seems like the children's most prominent characteristic is they all have really thick eyebrows. I mean, like caterpillar eyebrows. Especially Maurice. It's very noticeable. (The guy in the photo sent to the Sodders has the same thick eyebrows.) Unfortunately thick eyebrows are pretty easily made thin by means of tweezers, if you wanted to disguise a person.
I wish an age progression picture of Louis in 1945 without the 1967-68 picture could be done in order to compare the two and see if there are any similaries. Does anyone know if there is any one could do this without too much cost?
 
In order to cover up a kidnapping, I think that's significant, and I may be wrong but...

The other thing is that perhaps the thing thrown on the roof could have been one of the kids Christmas toys. Could it be possible that the children were playing outside and accidentally caused a fire? Could they have gone outside with a light of some sort, a candle or something? Suddenly they knock it over, the house starts to go up, and one of the kids maybe throw one of their toys, (an army plastic toy) at the roof, trying to wake up the parents?

The problem I have with that theory is what happened to the children after that? Would they really be so scared that they caused a fire, to leave forever? Did they perhaps think they're parents died in this fire, and if they came forward they would be seen as murderers? I guess that could scare a kid to the point of leaving forever. But how would the oldest child take care of his siblings? He was only fourteen, right?

:confused:

If the children started the fire which I highly doubt they wouldn't have thrown a toy on the roof to try and wake the parents because they slept in a downstairs bedroom. A candle being knocked over outside wouldn't have started the house on fire either. Catsy you really need to read this thread from the very beginning. :)
 
George sent his children away with family members and set the fire to ensure his enemies did not find out they were still alive. With them supposedly dead, no one would bother looking for him. I think Jennie saw the picture in the paper, and thought it was her daughter. In order not to arouse her suspicion he drove to New York. I think the billboard was a decoy, to make the people who had threatened the children believe he had nothing to do with the kid's disappearances. :confused:

Support for this theory::: At first I read somewhere that George's son had told his grandchild that he knew where the kids were. He said everyone but his mother and youngest sister knew where the kids were. He told his granddaughter to leave it alone. :twocents:

I also read that Unsolved Mysteries wanted to do a story and the kids said no. They told Unsolved Mysteries that now that their mother was dead, they had no reason to search anymore. :eek:

The oldest boys eyebrows were singed. I think they were told by their father to set the fire. I think their eyebrows were singed while setting the fire. I think the fire was a decoy to make it look to George's enemies that the kids were dead. :waitasec:

Also, everyone made it out of the house except for the five kids. I think perhaps the three year old was supposed to go too, as the other kids were much older, and able to take care of themselves. I think George felt the six of them were too young to keep themselves safe. But Jennie took the baby to bed and put her in bed with her husband and herself. It would be too weird if the baby went missing from the bed, and Jennie might wake up while he was trying to take the baby away. So he probably let it go. :hand:

As soon as Jennie died, the property was sold and the billboard pulled down, which makes me angry. The thing is this, if they knew what happened to these kids, it isn't fair to start such a huge myster. It makes everyone out of the loop feel helpless. :behindbar

Almost as if there was no mystery any more. The photo of one of the daughters, that George went all the way to New York for, I think perhaps Jennie saw that photo and George went because he knew if he did not, his wife would find it odd. And I don't think he had the heart to tell her they definitly died in the fire, nor did he have the heart to tell her he sent them away. Mothers are very protective over their babies. She would probably would have dropped him like a rock even though it was 1945 and divorce was not all that prevelant. Maybe he was afraid of losing her, maybe he was scared she would go and get the kids back and put them in harm's way... Any number of things.

Can you all help me? If they were taken by family, back to Italy, (which the number on the photograph is a zip code in Sicily, you can look that up), I think they would take the same last name. Which was Soddu. The name was changed from Sodder to Soddu. I think the picture was sent just to ensure Jennie that her children were still alive. Maybe George even went as far to send a letter and to tell them to.

I want to solve this mystery before everyone involved is dead.

Thanks!
 
And btw, I lived in New Jersey since the day I was born until I left at the age of 22. I didn't just visit, I grew up there, had friends whose family were in the mob, and my grandma told me all kinds of stories about being a mobster's girlfriend, my dad is the son of a mobster. So there you go. I KNOW a lot of these things. And one of the rules was never to hurt children, or the elderly. They wouldn't have taken things out on a child without there being some sort of retribution, believe me. And 99% of them wouldn't have risked it.


So there you go, that is what I think. Next step ::: I would like to get in touch with the family.

Everyone deserves this mystery to be put to rest.

I am here to tell you straight-up, that the Mafia most definitely DO harm children. (Personal experience deleted, because I owe you no explanation of my life.)

You might have this lovely romantic vision of the Mafia because you are Family. Perhaps they do not harm their own. I have no such illusions, however, as I was personally, directly, brutally harmed by the Mafia when I was a child. The NY Italian Mafia are the lowest life form on the planet. The absolute scum of the earth.

I would highly advise anyone in the Sodder family NOT to get in touch with the Mob.

The Sodders deserve to have the mystery solved. Anyone who harmed them does not deserve to have it put to rest.
 
And for your information, I NEVER SAID THEY WERENT SCUM. THEY ARE SCUM. But hurting children, especially BACK IN THE DAY, DID NOT HAPPEN.

Now beyond that, my grandma raised me and I loved her with all of my heart. If my grandfather had ever come around, when I was old enough, I probably would have cursed him out and told him never to come back. Cause he hurt my grandma, and I loved her beyond words. Do I think they're scum? YES. I DO 100% believed the mob is filled with what my grandma would have called "scumdogs". But what I can tell you, is that the mob guy who was my dad's dad was caught beating my grandma up, and somehow someway the mob took care of him. I don't believe in murder, nor do I believe in the DEATH PENALTY, but I do know that he beat a woman, and my dad, incidentally as well, and one day he was gone, never to be seen again. So what does that tell you? They didn't like someone abusing kids or women. They were into other horrible crap. But aparentally not harming women and children.

And romantic? Yeah right. Like I said, I think the mob IS scum.
 
I am saying that I do not doubt they protect their own. It may have been your perception as well as your experience that the Mafia do not harm children, and I am not judging you at all. I am telling you as much of my experience as I feel comfortable speaking to you about in order to make plain that the rules inside the Family did not apply to those of us who were outside of their protection. And firsthand, I am telling you that I, personnally, still bear the scars inflicted on me when I was a child. The Mafia prove their brutality all by themselves.
 
Talk about racism. Just because my biological grandfather whom I never even met was in the mob. Just because I am telling you I think it's UNLIKELY that the mob had somthing to do with it. And by the way, I HAVE NOT yet ruled it out. I just think there must be some other reasonable explanation.

Look the mob lets talk about a mob connection.

1. If the mob had started the fire, wouldn't they have wanted the kids to die in the fire? Don't you think your "monsters", would have made sure the kids died in the fire, and the parents too? Isn't it possible, like totally possible that if the mob wanted George Sodder out of the way, they would have made sure he and the kids and his wife were out of the way? It's easy. It's called BARRING THE DOOR, and THE WINDOWS, before setting the blaze on fire. And if your CORRECT, that the fire dept and police dept were too scared to do anything, don't you think they wouldn't have investigated a barred door and windows, even IF part of the home was still standing?

2. If the kids were NOT in the home when it was set ablaze, don't you think the mob would have shot them dead? I mean, let's be honest here. Do you really think the mob would have felt sorry for the kids? George wasn't high up enough in the mob while he was living in Italy for the kids to have been "Demanded to be spared". I think the local mob would have just laughed it off and said, Ya right. And if you think the mob wouldn't have thought twice about killing the kids, why didn't they?

3. Do you really think the mob would have wanted to deal with 5 snot nosed kids? Kidnapped them and taken them God knows where? A fourteen year old would be hard to sell. Even to a couple wanting a kid to help take care of the farm. Cause once he turns sixteen or seventeen they know he'd be out of there in a heart beat. Why pay for only 2 years worth of labor?

4. And the five year old isn't really capable of doing all THAT much work. So who would buy her?

5. And who in their right mind would go against the MOB and send a photo of Louis? Why would anyone do that? If the mob had said we'll kill you if you ever tell the Sodders this kid is here, who in the heck would send a picture? Would you, if it was you? No matter HOW sorry you felt for them you'd be too scared to open your mouth, even twenty years later.

So is it POSSIBLE? Of course it's possible. it's also possible that aliens came from outer space and took the kids back to their intergalactic zoo where the kids are currently held captive. Possible, anything is possible. What I am looking at is probability. I just don't see it.

And for your info, if I had family in the mob and I knew them, I would ask them to tell me, that so many years had passed, that the family deserved to know if they had anything to do with it. I am honestly trying to help. I want to help. I am intrigued, it's a very interesting mystery. And I want to know the truth and I want the family who is still around to know the truth. I AM TRYING TO HELP.
 
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