hey; Jonathan its nice to hear from yourall again, sound's like yourall getting a lot done. that's very good news..I would say we on this site will help yourall anyway they can..yes yourall very busy how do they say that in West Virgina??? more busy than a one legged man in a *advertiser censored* kicking contest..i hope that a little humor will brite-up yourall's day..
WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #2
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blueclouds
Former member
Just got into this story. Very confusing to say the least. Curious as to why "Granddaughter" hasn't posted in quite sometime, anyone know?
thanks
thanks
Shadow205
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I have been in contact with Granddaughter via email. She has been very busy with work and has not had much time to post. She has still been busy getting some things together though and her brother is still working on a website for the Sodder children.
blueclouds said:
gardenmom
Former Member
I just wanted to let the Sodders know that I am still with them, and wish them luck.
blueclouds
Former member
Now that I'm caught up to speed reading all this info for the past several hours, I just wanted to let you all know that I have put in a request to a contact of mine. He is an expert on fire investigations and has come across things like this. I have asked him all the basics of fire, heat, intensity and what could truly be found after a fire like this one. I have asked him to provide a variety of info and documentation that will back up info that he sends.
Apparently, regarding the cremation of people.... the OLDER the person, the LARGER the bone fragments in the cremation process. In younger people (as in my mother who died at 48 yrs old) there is a minimal amount of bone fragment and a great deal of smaller pieces.
When I compared my husbands dad's bones who was 79 to my mothers who was 48, there is a clear substantial difference in texture, size of bones and even color. While this sounds morbid to some, it interests me greatly.
WHY didn't children scream? They were overcome by smoke and most likely died prior to any flames reaching them.
WHY were there no bodies found? It is very possible that because of the intensity of the fire (house burning right down to the basement), the length of the fire, there truly was very minimal bones remaining that could eventually be seen by the naked eye.
Should there be an excavation of this site? If there are University students so willing to take this on AND the current property owners we hope would comply.... then absolutely.
Having stated all of this, I await my fire investigators response to all I forwarded him. When I get a reply, I will let you all know.
Truthfully, although we all wish they could be alive.... I for one believe that they did perish in the fire.
MANY of the "questions" and strange circumstances following up to the fire have been resolved. IE: late night phone calll and such.
And parents will grasp onto any unusual thing... anything slightest out of the way to comfort their grief. One of the ways is to come to believe your child is still alive and there has to be some mistake..... I've worked with many families of missing and murdered children and if there was ever an opportunity of their child being alive... or misidentified.... they grasp onto it.
I believe fully that the Sodder family was in such state of grief and with dad covering up the scene so quickly, that the answers were forever buried. For the older children never to have reached out and made an effort to call or anything..... leads me to suspect that this poor family found the only way they could to survive.... is to keep their hope alive.
Apparently, regarding the cremation of people.... the OLDER the person, the LARGER the bone fragments in the cremation process. In younger people (as in my mother who died at 48 yrs old) there is a minimal amount of bone fragment and a great deal of smaller pieces.
When I compared my husbands dad's bones who was 79 to my mothers who was 48, there is a clear substantial difference in texture, size of bones and even color. While this sounds morbid to some, it interests me greatly.
WHY didn't children scream? They were overcome by smoke and most likely died prior to any flames reaching them.
WHY were there no bodies found? It is very possible that because of the intensity of the fire (house burning right down to the basement), the length of the fire, there truly was very minimal bones remaining that could eventually be seen by the naked eye.
Should there be an excavation of this site? If there are University students so willing to take this on AND the current property owners we hope would comply.... then absolutely.
Having stated all of this, I await my fire investigators response to all I forwarded him. When I get a reply, I will let you all know.
Truthfully, although we all wish they could be alive.... I for one believe that they did perish in the fire.
MANY of the "questions" and strange circumstances following up to the fire have been resolved. IE: late night phone calll and such.
And parents will grasp onto any unusual thing... anything slightest out of the way to comfort their grief. One of the ways is to come to believe your child is still alive and there has to be some mistake..... I've worked with many families of missing and murdered children and if there was ever an opportunity of their child being alive... or misidentified.... they grasp onto it.
I believe fully that the Sodder family was in such state of grief and with dad covering up the scene so quickly, that the answers were forever buried. For the older children never to have reached out and made an effort to call or anything..... leads me to suspect that this poor family found the only way they could to survive.... is to keep their hope alive.
mysteriew
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From everything we have gotten so far, one thing that doesn't burn are teeth. And with 5 kids being there, that would have been quite a few teeth. Yet despite the ashes being searched, they didn't find anything.
gasoline has a very low flash point that's is why its so dangerous -40 degrees and burn's only close to 850 degrees, natural gas will burn close to 1000 degree's, to get the heat range to completely start the cremation process you got to have atleast 1400 degrees nothing lower will do it..you need anywhere from above 1400 degress up to 1800 degress i say about 1600 degress be about the temp. you would try to stay at..and even at that temp. you talking about a 21/2 to 3 hour's burn time...to get this high temp and burn time you got to have a very controled environment with 2 or more compressed controled gasses working together to get the heat, time, and area to burn, to cremation of a human body. finding all these element's together inside a home is a very long shot...and for more than 1 person cremated that's close to impossible.. in all my year's as a vol. fire fighter i never seen a home fire where you can't find a part's of a body for each person missing in that house hold. My training yes i think i could do it but not with 1940's technology. it would be today's technology and i sure wouldn't put how i do it on internet or tell anybody unless they are a fire marshall or a arson detective and i still don't think i could get rid of all them kid's in the time frame without getting cought red handed .. you more than welcome to try your theory's but i can't see how it's possible not with the heat source, wide coverage area myself i don't think you can get even close to the heat needed to do the job.
blueclouds
Former member
mysteriew said:
Going through every article I could find, there was never an indepth search of ashes. If the teeth were covered with black soot or whatever, it would take days to find them.
From all of this, the basic quick search was done and left for another day.... and before they could return, the father filled the entire area.
So, I agree, teeth would be located. absolutely which is why I agree there should be a dig of some sort.
blueclouds
Former member
welder 79 said:
That's what is known by many yes, regarding cremation.... I'm going to throw in the proverbial "spontaneous human combustion" which used to ask the very same questions and offer up that it was impossible for a body to burn at that high heat as stated above.
In reading further studies about S.HUMAN.COM. there is actually no mystery at all. You can read up on that in depth if you choose. And those bodies DID generate heat enough to turn bone to ash and yet preserve much of the property surrounding it.
Again, I await a responses from my contact. It will be very interesting to hear further fires in homes and what condition bodies were in.
i seen training film's showed real case's with real dead people and i know all about "SHC" ( 95% of them are smoker's or was ex-smokers that still smoked every once in a while FACT!!!)even them people leave body part's mostly leg's, shoe's, arm's cothing yes cothing!!!!still on the body..... Anyway you look at the case you got to prove THE Fact's HEAT--degree's/ TIME--- how long can you keep heat at a high temp.(est.1600 degress)/ AREA---you got to have the heat-temp(est.1600 degress) in a area all the kid's are in for the time peroid of 21/2 to 3 hours/... If you can't match each and every speciifications you will find pretty good sized body part's......I been to 50 or more home fire's where the home's are built in the 1940's or before..that was before flame retardant building material's they are lucky to burn more than 20 to 25 min's until all you got is ashes and the temp. don't come even near 650 degress because i checked it myself with a infered temp. gauge anyway you look at it. if they was human's killed in that fire you will find part's of them at the burn site...and it should been very easy to spot them!!!!I sure hope your mystery "contact" is not some jr firefighter?? IF so please don't waste my time iam a capt. with 1 wall full of Diploma's and starting on the next wall...if a body is so easy to burn to ashes no body be in jail everybody would shoot someone and light a match to the dead person and POOF no body....blueclouds said:
oh ok we was talking about home fire's.. this could be something to keep in our mind's when looking into this and if anybody remember's the design of the home , i know in that area a lot of people heated and cooked with coal and sometime's they would put coal down a chute into the basement,, coal will burn at around 1450 degrees and that pretty hot.. now that sure could cause why some body's was never found . its was just a idea iam not sure if they even used coal or nothing about the design of the home.iam just trying to look at why no body's was found..
............................................i sure do thank you, the above post's i keep trying to figure out how could so many people just dissapear without a trace due to a home fire?? but i keep getting distracted by a other post's . i got a chance away from computer and i thought COAL!!! it will produce the heat, the time, and the area to really do the job if everything (as sad as it is and no dissrespect to the family or anybody) but "if " everything just happened to be in the right spot at the right time it would produce one very big and hot fire, i heard somewhere that night there was high wind's that's would make the fire even hotter...but this is just a idea to keep in the back of our mind's we don't want to go down a road before its time.....iam going reread that book on combustible property's of coal, different grade's,btu's, ect. that's very interesting book..mysteriew said:
mysteriew
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Mr. Sodder owned a trucking company and that is coal country which leads me to believe they probably heated with coal. But that is something the family will have to confirm. Also, different families would keep their coal in diffent places, so that will also be something they will need to tell us.
Is there a scan of the back of the photo of the possible Louis?
Something that struck me was the possiblity that maybe what is being read as 'love' is actually the word 'have'. I know that in my own handwriting - and especially when I am writing quickly - lowercase h's can look a lot like capital L's.
Just a thought.
Something that struck me was the possiblity that maybe what is being read as 'love' is actually the word 'have'. I know that in my own handwriting - and especially when I am writing quickly - lowercase h's can look a lot like capital L's.
Just a thought.
hi;; you must be new welcome hope you enjoy the site,, you could have something there..if iam not mistaken that photo is posted somewhere on this thread but where???? i would have to search and that will take some time..there is 2 thread's about the sodder family mystery on this site one just got so big we had to start a other one but its got some very good reading in both of the thread's. thank's and i hope you enjoy all the thread's..Elicere said:
I am very good friends with the current owners. I have spoken with them and they have granted me permission to excavate the land where the house sat and I am currently working on a grant to fund this dig. If anyone has grant experience...I would love the help.
gardenmom
Former Member
That is the best news I have heard in a very long time. I am sooooo happy for you. Maybe this will give you the answers you finally need. As for the grant writing, maybe post for help in the Jury Room in this site. Go to the main index and you will find it. :blowkiss:JBandy said:
Shadow205
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Jonathan, that is great news. Shadowangel and I had explored the possibility of having an archeology class from WVU or Marshall University do it as a class project(for free). What do you think of that idea?JBandy said:
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