WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

[Teresa Larson]

Even if the fire did burn very hot and for a long time there would have been bone fragments left and there wasn't. I do know that kids will hide sometimes when a house is burning because they are scared but if that was the case there should have been bones in the ashes and there wasn't.

 

[birdie74]

The one who suggested that maybe oil or something could have covered the smell was George Bragg, the author. The older gentleman I met who had gone to the site the next morning suggested that the Mr. Sodder might have had a huge amount of fuel of some sort stockpiled there, like coal or gas. I asked Granddaughter's mother about this and she was said she was pretty sure they had no more than normal. Most people would have had a little bit of coal, wood, gas, etc.


By the way, I plan to email the second man I just mentioned to ask if the remains he saw that day could have been the liver seen by Jimmie Cipriani and the medical examiner. I would guess it was, because I think he said it was the medical examiner who showed it to him. I just misplaced this man's email address on my trip, but I'm sure I have it somewhere.

 

[fox1950]

Floyd was actually b. 05 Jul 1907 and d. Nov 1970 in Oak Hill, Fayetteville, WV.

There was a John Duval Shultz b. 08 Jan 1897 and d. Dec 1982. In 1930 he was a superintendant for coal miners' housing and living with his mother Carrie, mother-in-law Victoria Fulks, and William (a lawyer) and Mary Thompson, 2 boarders. In 1942 John worked for Fayetteville Federal Savings and Loan Assn.

According to a book I have on Fayette County History Cleante was a member of the Board of Directores of the Fayetteville Federal Savings and Loan Association and the Fayette County National Bank. He was a charter member of the WV Contractors Assoc. and charter member and president of the Fayetteville Rotary Club.

 

[birdie74]

That's interesting...so Cleante Janutolo was the foreman of the 6-man jury and almost certainly would have had influence on at least two of the others.

 

[wv171]

Mr. Sodder was in the trucking bussiness so it would be normal for him to have more than normal amount of oil product's around his home.. I don't know if his truck's was Diesel or Gas but they still would have more than normal amount of oil product's at his home....

I am pretty sure I read where they did a lot of maintance on his truck's at the homeplace..

I know this a little off topic, But I wish some of you could see some of the stonemason work some of these people did around these Coal Camp's... I set back and totally amazed at the craftmanship of there work... Sadly most is just getting bulldozed over at this time but there work is just I say you could call it a piece of art.. They did all this by hand tool's no power tool's or nothing... Ever get a chance check it out... It's well worth your time..

 

[shadowangel]

I know this a little off topic, But I wish some of you could see some of the stonemason work some of these people did around these Coal Camp's... I set back and totally amazed at the craftmanship of there work... Sadly most is just getting bulldozed over at this time but there work is just I say you could call it a piece of art.. They did all this by hand tool's no power tool's or nothing... Ever get a chance check it out... It's well worth your time..

If you have the time, grab a camera and take some pics. Maybe set up a website or blog to preserve and share what is left.

 

[birdie74]

I've never been to Coal's Camp, but I've seen it in Fayetteville and other areas of WV, and it is beautiful and impressive. Whenever I go to WV, my favorite buildings are always the stone ones, and I even love the stone fences.

 

[missscarlett]

Birdie-
I just wanted to say that you have been doing an AMAZING job with this. I have lurked for months before finally being able to register. This was the first thread I got hooked on. I wish there were more answers for the few remaining Sodders and I truly appriciate what you have been doing thus far. Thanks for keeping this thread current. :clap::clap::clap:

 

[fox1950]

Lifetime Movie: "Little GIrl Lost: the Delimar Vera Story ..... This is an interesting story about a baby who burned in a fire-no bones were found-The mother never gave up and finally found the child alive. She had been kidnapped. It is a true story and well worth watching.

 

[birdie74]

Very interesting! I don't have LMN, but I did see some upcoming viewing times for those of you who do.

I wonder what year the movie was made. The part about the gum in the hair seems so familiar. I think I had seen this movie years ago and had forgotten about it.

 

[fox1950]

The mother did not find her until 2004, so the movie was made sometime after that.

 

[birdie74]

I must be thinking of another movie then, because I think I saw it many years ago. That explains why I didn't remember the fire. It was another case of kidnapping when a mom made an excuse to take some hair from a girl that she suspected was her daughter.

 

[birdie74]

I feel bad because I almost feel like we've hit a wall in this case. I'm sure a lot of others have felt that way through the years, and that's probably why so many who used to post on this sub-forum haven't been lately. I don't want it to die out though. I've been spending more time looking at a few other cases on the site, but I don't want to put this one on the back burner.

I'm sure there must be some other avenues we haven't pursued yet. Maybe if we all brainstorm or go back and read the old info, we can come up with another angle to investigate.

There are also some things I haven't posted that maybe I should. I recently joined newspaperarchive.com, and I've read dozens of articles on the case that way. I can't post them or a link to them, because you have to be a member to view them, but if anyone wants to email me or PM me with their email address, I can send them to you. I've started sending some already to a few people.

There are also a few names I've recently learned, but I've been hesitant to post them because I didn't want to talk about the source. Now I think I should just put them out there in case it can further the investigation. These people may or may not be very important to the case.

The lady who claimed to have made the phone call to the Sodder house the night of the fire, then later denied it, was Mrs. Frank Harding.

The part about the kids possibly being taken to Smithers within hours of the fire came from Mr. Raymond D. Wise of Charleston. He claimed that Mrs. Tony Bree of Smithers said that they were taken to her house very early Christmas morning, then later picked up by people with Florida tags.

I've tried to find out more about each of these 3 people. There were at least 2 Frank Hardings in the area around that time. One was a county attorney, the other a mine machinist. I think the latter is more likely the one whose wife is in question. This man seemed to run in a rough crowd, and I believe he and his wife, born Lura White, were probably divorced before his death in 1951. He was shot and killed by a saloon owner who said that he had broken into her apartment. She denied the stories that he was her former partner in the saloon business.

There was more than one Raymond Wise in the area, and I haven't really narrowed it down or learned anything significant about them.

Tony and Mary (Scalise) Bree owned a restaurant in the Smithers area for more than 40 years. The name was originally spelled Bria, and some of their kids kept that spelling. I know the Bree femily was close to the Giannini family - Frank Cipriani's wife Louise was a Giannini. Many of the Gianninis had Brees as their bridesmaids and groomsmen through the years.

A lot of this may just be useless trivia about these individuals and not really important to the case, but I want to find out as much as I can about them just in case.

I hope nobody's upset that I didn't post the info sooner, but sometimes I'm not sure the right thing to do in this case. Hopefully we can get things rolling again in the investigation. Any ideas?

 

[fox1950]

Your work on this case is to be admired. I would not think anyone would be angry with you for not telling something that you weren't suppose to tell. I am the same way.

 

[birdie74]

Thank you. I'll be away from my computer til Mon. PM, so I'll wish y'all now a happy Labor Day.

 

[youshouldveknown]

Little Girl Lost is a new movie. It just aired this summer.

 

[birdie74]

.
There were at least 2 Frank Hardings in the area around that time. One was a county attorney, the other a mine machinist. I think the latter is more likely the one whose wife is in question.

I was wrong about the county attorney Frank Harding living in WV. He was mentioned in a Charleston paper, but it was an article about a case in Maine.

There's still one other Frank Harding I know of in WV within a few tears of the fire. He was living in St. Albans in 1954 when his brother Joseph died. I haven't found anything else about him, but I doubt he was the one we want. The one killed in '51 seems to have lived right in or near Fayetteville, so he's more likely.

Thanks to Fox1950 for taking another look at the Hardings.

 

[MIMOMMY]

Ok so Im hooked - I spent ALL day today reading thru the threads on this --- Kinda bummed that none of the pictures work on granddaughters website though ???

 

[birdie74]

Welcome! I'm so glad you're interested.

For me, the pictures are working on the homepage for the sodderchildren.com site, but most aren't working in the photo gallery. I think most of those pictures can be found on the thread in this forum that contains pictures. Did you go to the "Download" page? The pamphlets were really interesting.

 

[birdie74]

Someone sent me a lot of new info this week, so I'll post it in chunks instead of all in one long message. I'll start by telling about another tragedy in the Sodder family that may or may not be related to the childrens' disappearance.

Mrs. Sodder's sister Alma was riding with her boyfriend, Eddie Cox (who was driving) on December 21, 1948, and they were going over the Cortez Bridge down in Florida. According to John Bennett, the Bridge Tender, the car was going at a high rate of speed. The red light was working, but Mr. Cox said he didn't see the red light showing the bridge was drawn. The car went airborne abt 60 ft before falling into the water. Cox, 31, made it out. Alma, 32, did not. He was taken to the hospital with a few bruises. Jimmy Johnson, 18, dove into the water and got her out, but she had been under for about an hour. Her body had been floating in the car. Someone tried to revive her, but of course it had been too long. Her brother Frank identified her body, though the newspaper accounts said that he was unable to ID her at first. There was an inquest, but foul play couldn't be proven.

In Sept. 1951, T.C. Simmons, the investigator-in-charge with the WV Merchant Police, was investigating a report that the children had been or still were in the custody of Mrs. Sodder's sister in Vera Cruz, FL. I don't know which sister he was referring to (there were at least Mary, Alma, and Edna). I keep googling Vera Cruz, FL but can't find it. The name of the area may have changed since then.