WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

[fox1950]

One thing that I find interesting about the articles, is that some bones were found after Mr. Sodder had the land reopened, and along with the small amount of human bones, after examination he was determined there were also bones of animals. Seems smaller animals did not completely burn but all the Sodder children burned with the exception of a vertabre (sp). Also, the human bones were found at the opposite end of the house than where Maurice was sleeping. The floor beneath the bones was not burned. Odd. Maurice, if awakened by the fire, passed many excape routes, to get to that end of the house.

OOps-edited to say, that maybe the animals weren't in the fire but died later. But the search found these small bones so if there were more bones from the children it seems they would not have missed them.

One authority even stated that if bones from the back of a person was found the skull should have been present also.

 

[birdie74]

The police theory in those articles is that the children were not burned that night, but were murdered, and that their bones never left the county. That's why they checked the mines and wells.

I know eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable, but I tend to believe some of them who claimed to have seen the kids after the fire, so I doubt they were murdered that night. There is likely evidence though that the police knew and I don't, so I could be wrong. If they were killed that night and their bodies were disposed of, that would explain why they never came back.

I thought it was odd that the private detective George Swain quit the case so suddenly. He was quoted as saying there was no doubt the kids had been in Cortez. Apparently it was a missionary who first claimed to have seen them there, and five people all together. He followed leads for 3+ yrs. Then they did the dig and found those bones on Aug 18th, and in September he just quit. He was adamant that he and nobody in his agency would be investigating any more. Maybe he did believe it was Maurice's bones and that's why he quit, but I wondered whether someone had threatened his family if he continued to investigate.

 

[birdie74]

I skimmed the Havre de Grace, Md census records from 1930 to see if any of the last names looked familiar from this case. There were a few named Morris, but I don't think they were related to Forest Morris. It's such a common name, and they weren't from WV.

There were a whole lot of Italian families there. Many were even stone masons like the Janutolos were when they came to the U.S. The only Italian name that caught my eye was Di Giovanni. I'm thinking some with that name came over with the Janutolos and Peraldos, but I'm not seeing the records right now to confirm that. It could have been a different name.

 

[birdie74]

The name I was thinking of was just Giovanni, not Di Giovanni. Jon Giovanni came over on the ship with Cleante Janutolo in 1906. They were both stone masons and going to stay with Mr. Peraldo in NY. It doesn't look like he's related to the Di Giovannis in Havre de Grace.

 

[fox1950]

The police theory in those articles is that the children were not burned that night, but were murdered, and that their bones never left the county. That's why they checked the mines and wells.

I know eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable, but I tend to believe some of them who claimed to have seen the kids after the fire, so I doubt they were murdered that night. There is likely evidence though that the police knew and I don't, so I could be wrong. If they were killed that night and their bodies were disposed of, that would explain why they never came back.

I thought it was odd that the private detective George Swain quit the case so suddenly. He was quoted as saying there was no doubt the kids had been in Cortez. Apparently it was a missionary who first claimed to have seen them there, and five people all together. He followed leads for 3+ yrs. Then they did the dig and found those bones on Aug 18th, and in September he just quit. He was adamant that he and nobody in his agency would be investigating any more. Maybe he did believe it was Maurice's bones and that's why he quit, but I wondered whether someone had threatened his family if he continued to investigate.

I agree. I thought it odd also that he left the case so suddenly even though the bones were found. Have you read what ever happened about the arrests that were supposed to be made. Can't find anything except they had suspects and were going to make arrests. Seems the subject was dropped unless I missed something.

You have done a great job finding all the information in the newpapers. Seems there was of media coverage throughout the years.

 

[birdie74]

I haven't found any actual arrests either. It sounds like the only arrest ever made in the case was the guy who stole from them. Maybe Maryland turned out to be a dead end and the prosecutor didn't feel there was enough evidence to charge. It seems weird though after it was printed that they were so close to arrests that nothing happened.

Back then they used to print in the paper a lot of times when people would be visiting in the area, so I'm checking that for around Christmas '45. So far nothing.

 

[birdie74]

I don't know why I tried '48. I was out of it. I meant to check '45. I just did, and no answers there either.

 

[birdie74]

I stopped off in Fayetteville today. I looked up records on Joseph Cipriani's estate, and I didn't get a lot of details, like what the dispute was about or how Janutolo was connected, but I do know the final settlement was 17 Oct 1949.

I met a gentleman who I believe was the County Circuit Court Clerk (though I probably got his title wrong). He was very nice and gave me as much info as he could. He's a historian, but hadn't studied this case much. He even rode down with me to show me where the fire happened. He couldn't help me with the name of the man who was arrested for stealing from the Sodders, but he referred me to some others who might have more info.

The first was a long-time resident in his mid-eighties. He's a very nice man who says he has no doubt that the children died in the fire. He said he went by the morning after the fire and saw some remains that the medical examiner found. I asked more about the remains and he said he thought it was bone or something that they believed was human. He tended to think that a private detective was just using the family for years by stringing them along for more money.

The clerk also gave me the phone # for George and Melanie Bragg, who wrote about the case in their book. This was great, because I was going to try to look them up anyway but didn't know where to start. I spoke to Mr. Bragg, and said he does have the name of the man who was arrested and a lot of other info he can dig out. He also has new pictures of the excavation he just found. I'm going to meet them next week when I'm passing back through the area.

 

[Teresa Larson]

I stopped off in Fayetteville today. I looked up records on Joseph Cipriani's estate, and I didn't get a lot of details, like what the dispute was about or how Janutolo was connected, but I do know the final settlement was 17 Oct 1949.

I met a gentleman who I believe was the County Circuit Court Clerk (though I probably got his title wrong). He was very nice and gave me as much info as he could. He's a historian, but hadn't studied this case much. He even rode down with me to show me where the fire happened. He couldn't help me with the name of the man who was arrested for stealing from the Sodders, but he referred me to some others who might have more info.

The first was a long-time resident in his mid-eighties. He's a very nice man who says he has no doubt that the children died in the fire. He said he went by the morning after the fire and saw some remains that the medical examiner found. I asked more about the remains and he said he thought it was bone or something that they believed was human. He tended to think that a private detective was just using the family for years by stringing them along for more money.

The clerk also gave me the phone # for George and Melanie Bragg, who wrote about the case in their book. This was great, because I was going to try to look them up anyway but didn't know where to start. I spoke to Mr. Bragg, and said he does have the name of the man who was arrested and a lot of other info he can dig out. He also has new pictures of the excavation he just found. I'm going to meet them next week when I'm passing back through the area.

WOW Birdie That's great!! Please let us know whatever you find out. :clap:

 

[fox1950]

I stopped off in Fayetteville today. I looked up records on Joseph Cipriani's estate, and I didn't get a lot of details, like what the dispute was about or how Janutolo was connected, but I do know the final settlement was 17 Oct 1949.

I met a gentleman who I believe was the County Circuit Court Clerk (though I probably got his title wrong). He was very nice and gave me as much info as he could. He's a historian, but hadn't studied this case much. He even rode down with me to show me where the fire happened. He couldn't help me with the name of the man who was arrested for stealing from the Sodders, but he referred me to some others who might have more info.

The first was a long-time resident in his mid-eighties. He's a very nice man who says he has no doubt that the children died in the fire. He said he went by the morning after the fire and saw some remains that the medical examiner found. I asked more about the remains and he said he thought it was bone or something that they believed was human. He tended to think that a private detective was just using the family for years by stringing them along for more money.(quote)


Birdie, you are amazing. Keep up the great work.

Many rumors abounded and continue to abound about what happened that night. It is odd that this 83 year old man, who would have been twenty when the fire happened. was actually a witness to bones being found when everyone else denied they were there.

If I am remembering correctly, Mr. Sodder and John were there when they searched the ashes but did not see anything. I think later, during a hearing some of the witnesses, even a priest, recanted their story, and said they did see bones. But why were the Sodders told there were none? I tend to believe there weren't any. Why didn't the medical examiner tell the Sodders there were bones? Why did the ambulance leave without the bones if they were present? What happened to them? I hate to think the Sodders suffered all those years because they were lied to about the bones. Just my thoughts, and certainly I could be wrong. I also wonder why their was nothing found during the dug except bones that did not appear to have been exposed to fire.

The news articles are very interesting, and it seems that they was many searches of all mines, wells, etc.

I do not begin to know what happened that night. Perhaps the children did die in the fire and the Sodders just couldn't be convinced of it.

Birdie, again, you are doing an amazing job. I admire your work on this.

 

[birdie74]

Thank you.

The man I met didn't seem too sure of what the remains were, so I doubt there were bones either.

 

[birdie74]

I met George Bragg and he was very nice and willing to help.

There were 2 men charged with stealing the the blocks from the Sodders- Lonnie Johnson and Jeff Adkins. They owned a nearby beer establishment, so I'm guessing it's the same bar from which people came that night to see the fire. That would explain why they had a cab ready to take them with the blocks since the people came from the bar in a cab.

Adkins ran off and joined the army, so he didn't face the charges. Johnson is the one who claimed he cut the phone lines. I now agree with the ones who believe he was not part of a conspiracy and was just a thief taking advantage of the situation. If he was in a conspiracy at all, I would think it was after the fact. Those who were may have paid him to say he cut the lines to cover up what they did.

Mr. Bragg also believes the children died in the fire because of John Sodder's initial statement to the police about shaking one of them, but he is puzzled about the lack of remains.

I still don't think they died in the fire. I think it's more likely that John either lied, misspoke in his shock, or was misquoted in his first statement. I just can't get over the lack of bodies and other bizarre circumstances.

 

[birdie74]

Also, the brother of Mrs. Sodder who saw remains the next morning was Jimmie Cipriani. It was most likely the beef liver- the first one that was touched with a rake by the medical examiner. I keep getting confused since there was another beef liver a couple of years later buried by Fire Chief Morris.

Frank Cipriani was apparently home in Fl that Christmas and learned of the fire by telegram. He wasn't able to make it back to WV for the funeral.

 

[fox1950]

I met George Bragg and he was very nice and willing to help.


Mr. Bragg also believes the children died in the fire because of John Sodder's initial statement to the police about shaking one of them, but he is puzzled about the lack of remains.

I still don't think they died in the fire. I think it's more likely that John either lied, misspoke in his shock, or was misquoted in his first statement. I just can't get over the lack of bodies and other bizarre circumstances.

I have always wondered if John actually shook the children why he did not sit down with the parents and convince them that he actually touched the children that night. A large amount of money was spent in the effort to find the children. There was much travelling by Mr. and Mrs. Sodder to find the children. Mr. Sodder walked the floor at night and worried. Mrs. Sodder had the 1968 picture enlarged and put on her mantle. Was John the one that drove his dad in the last year of his life, lying in the back of the car because he was so ill, to look for the children?
Why not put a stop to it at the beginning before everything got so out of hand? I, too, Birdie, do not believe that John shook the children. I think because of guilt that he hadn't actually retrieved the children before coming down stairs that he said it, if he did say it. And I understand fully why he did not, he was half asleep, unable to see because of the smoke and probably scared to death. Probably his last thought would have been of the children-he was not alert at the time.

And why didn't Mrs. Sodder's brother try to convince her also of the remains he saw the next morning. This was family. Why let them suffer for the rest of their lives?

Birdie, it is great to see you back. Is George writing a book about the Sodders?

Like the old saying goes-I don't understand all I know about this.

 

[birdie74]

I forgot to ask Mr. Bragg whether he was writing a book about it, but it didn't seem like he was to me. It had been a long time since he had gotten out the file. He plans to read back through his info and send me what I didn't have time to read.

The one who had driven Mr. Sodder around was his son-in-law.

 

[fox1950]

Thanks for clarifying who drove Mr. Sodder around.

 

[birdie74]

You would think that after hearing the opinions of a Fayetteville resident from that era and Mr. Bragg both believing that the children died in the fire that I would start leaning toward that theory myself, but I really haven't. I see their points, like about John's first statement, but I still think the evidence points the other way.

What probably kept me from being more swayed is that while on my trip, I also met Granddaughter and her parents. I didn't want to post about our visit before getting their ok. They were so gracious and we talked for a couple of hours about the case.

It reinforced to me that they are not just looking for things that support their hopes. They have examined everything, difficult or not. I don't want to speak for them, but one example is that they didn't necessarily believe the picture from the mail was Louis. They at least noticed some differences.

There are just real reasons to believe they were not in the fire. The bones were not there, and they also talked about the smell. A fireman close to them had told them about how awful the smell is for miles when a body burns. Even if the wind had blown the smell in another direction, wouldn't it have gone toward someone?

It was also so evident how loving Mr. and Mrs. Sodder were by listening to their daughter talk about them. I already believed that from Granddaughter's posts, but it really showed on their faces. It also showed in their son-in-law. He talked about how close he and his father-in-law were, and how he was the one driving him around in Texas. That's how I was able to answer Fox about it earlier.

I'm very grateful that they took the time to meet me and answer my questions. It must have been difficult to talk to a stranger about something so tragic and personal. I just really hope we can all find the answers together so they can either have closure or a reunion.

 

[wv171]

"There are just real reasons to believe they were not in the fire. The bones were not there, and they also talked about the smell. A fireman close to them had told them about how awful the smell is for miles when a body burns"

Whole lot of truth in that statement..

They was saying that about this case back in 1970's in Fayette County , I personally heard firemen talking about it way back before world wide web..

Ofcourse I say it was atleast 2nd hand infromation because these firemen was too young to have been at the fire in 1945..

 

[birdie74]

Thank you wv171 for your input. It's getting pretty lonely in this forum with less posting of late, so I hope you will continue to join in the conversation.

I said this about the smell to someone recently, and he said that it might not be true if there were the smell of oil or something else covering it up. Would that be possible? I have my doubts.

 

[wv171]

A human body burning is the worst experance I have ever had experance as a Firefighter...

That is the first time I ever heard of anything covering up the smell of a burning human body..

But if I learn anything at all.. Is never rule nothing out, Your friend could be very well be true about that...

On this case I allway's suspected that House fire burn a lot hotter than fire's today, I have been on more than a few home fire's that was built Pre 1940's and they do burn very hot,

So Hot that it melted plastic frame of my sunglasses inside my fire coat one day, And I seen it melt multi-wire High Voltage Electric Power line into before....

Because back then they didn't add Flame Retardant to Building Lumber and other household item's, Plus I just about bet they used Coal to heat and cook with at that home and There Coal Stockpile was normally in the Basement or very close to the home.. This was normal in WV at that time period...

We burn Coal into around 1980's and I still know home's burn Coal all winter long in WV Today..

But getting so hot to cremate human bone's be a long shot, Not impossible if Coal and high wind's feeding the fire with Oxygen but it just about had to be rated as a very long shot..

Everything would had to been "Just Right" to produce a fire that hot to burn Human Bone's into ash...

This case is still talked a lot about in Fayette County WV area Today..