WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

[birdie74]

Thank you Fox and Catsy for looking all of that up! BTW, I think it's kind of funny that we're a fox, cat, and bird. I hope nobody's hungry because I would be at the bottom of that food chain!

The people finder idea helped a lot and some other googling led me to a list of Frank Sr. and Louise's heirs, so that gives me a good idea of who the kids were.

I mainly want to know who they are so that if I find anything that indicates other kids lived with them, I can narrow it down. I also figure if I can find his biological kids in yearbooks or something, I might be able to find the Sodders among other kids there, most likely with different names.

It looks like Edward and Frank Jr. still live there. I know someone needs to question them about they know know of their cousins, but I don't want to do it myself just yet. I know they're probably nice guys, and even if their family was involved, they likely were told the same story as the Sodder kids, but I don't want to take any chances just yet. Maybe by some miracle I'll come across some evidence that proves they were there, and if I do I'll take it to law enforcement and let them ask the questions. After all, a lot of people have been afraid to talk for many years, and we still don't know if the family has mafia connections. I'd rather talk to people who knew the family (like schoolmates) before I talk to the family themselves. If I find nothing useful, I'll probably go back on a later trip and talk directly to family members if I can. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I am a young lady who will be traveling there alone.

 

[catsy101]

No your not paranoid. You never know. They could be the nicest people in the world or they could turn out the be the exact opposite and may not like it if you bring the kids up. I would be worried too. It's too bad you don't have a friend willing to go with you who loves mysteries.

And your probably right teresa. But there is one thing I would be concerned about and that's if the family got angry with each other because of the accusations, there's a possibility that they just stopped talking and maybe she doesn't know who is who in that part of the family. She would only know Frank and his wife and kids, but she may not know their kids or their kid's kids.

Anyone know, was there bad blood after George went to florida? Or did the Cipriani's understand because of how tragic everything was?

 

[catsy101]

And don't worry. This cat doesn't chase birds. Just hope the fox feels the same about the cat in this forum. LOL

 

[birdie74]

Fox, I had downloaded and read the detective mag articles a few months ago. Now I can't find the link. Do you know which posted message has it?

 

[birdie74]

Actually, I did read the Inside Detective article again over the weekend, but it just says several people claimed to have seen the kids down here so the detective went. I'm pretty sure I read the one you're talking about back in November though, because I felt sure Mr. Sodder had gone there himself. After I didn't find that detail over the last few days though, I figured I must have gotten mixed up in my mind.

 

[birdie74]

Fox, your post disappeared, too. Is there maybe a problem because of copyrights or something, so maybe the links and quotes from the other magazine had to be removed?

 

[catsy101]

Okay guys my husband worked on this so let me send it to you. Hold on a sec.

 

[catsy101]

Just so you know, am unsure as to whether or not they are the same girl. Seem similar but one issue I have that my husband pointed out is one girl, the ballet student, seems to have a turned up nose with bigger nostrils than the Betty photo, also he pointed out that the ballet girl seems to have a chin cleft (or he said it may be just a shadow) while the other girl, Betty, seems to have a more smooth chin in her photo. What do you guys think? They still seem so similar. And the year is right.

 

[catsy101]

Everyone what do you think?

 

[birdie74]

Catsy, it's hard to say about the nose and chin since the angle is so different. Nostrils usually seem more flared when we hold our heads high instead of looking down. I think it's possible.

Also, that's a good idea about taking a friend with me. I've been hesitant to tell friends about this because I think they'd think I'm crazy for getting so involved, but who knows. Maybe one of them would enjoy too, so I'll ask.

 

[catsy101]

Birdie want you to be careful when you go, even if you do have a friend with you. Make sure you tell all your family you are leaving on this trip and ensure they know the day and time you are to return. Odds are this family is very nice and even if they DID have something to do with the children, they might either tell you they can't or won't talk about it or be willing to talk. Or, on the other side of the coin, all I can think about is Robin Williams saying "Donner party of four". So just be careful. You never know. And if your friend comes with you, make sure your friend comes with you to meet that family, and a suggestion here is to call the family first, test the waters, talk to them and than ask them to meet you somewhere public. A local McDonalds or something, during a time when few people will be there, like early morning or later evening. So you can still talk fairly privatly but you are still in a public place where you are safer and you have your friend with you, two is safer than one.

 

[catsy101]

One more suggestion, "Pepper Spray". You can never be too careful.

 

[birdie74]

Catsy, thank you for the concern and advice. I really will be careful and won't take chances. I won't be contacting the family on this trip and I probably won't be talking to too many people about it unless I happen to meet them. I will mainly just be checking records to find out more about the family and looking for things like yearbooks and other things that may have pictures from the area from the '40s and '50s. It's likely I won't find too much right now, but if I can learn more about them, maybe I'll do more later. I'll just take it one step at a time so I don't get over my head.

I checked the Manatee Co. Library catalog online, but they don't have any school yearbooks listed.

 

[catsy101]

Well all I can think is that if she was sent to Italy to be with family, they probably just would have treated her like any other kid. If she was sent for ballet lessons, perhaps the entire ballet class was asked to do the movie. I dunno. It IS a very long shot, but geeze, she looks a LOT like the children, she looks a LOT like Betty, and the two photos side by side look really close. I just dunno it's such a weird case and I know the photo of the supposed Betty has to be out there somewhere it couldn't have just been destroyed and every copy gone. And it is soooooooooooo weird that it wasn't in the magazine that George said it was in. I am beginning to wonder something else too... Hold on let me check on my soup than I will post a scenario.

 

[catsy101]

So we know that there were five children who went missing. Their ages ranged from 14 all the way down to 5. Would everyone on here agree that if someone tried to take them from the home there would have been some sort of commotion? I think there would have been. I talked to my grandma and she said that a boy was 14 was almost considered a man at the time, and she said the oldest would have fought even if there was a gun and smaller siblings involved. Back than a boy of that age would not have just gone quietly. She also said the smaller siblings would have been harder to control. The 5 year old would not go quietly even if she saw a gun because she wouldn't completely understand, and the kids would have been screaming and crying and making all kinds of noise. Grandma said that the oldest daughter on the couch would have probably heard the commotion and awakened. But there was no commotion. I also asked her about the woman who was going around stealing children to sell on the black market. And grandma told me that it would be very difficult for a woman to take on 5 children of those ages. Plus, she said, the older children, Maurice and Martha Lee would have run away from their new homes the first chance they got to get back home. Which makes sense.

 

[catsy101]

So what does this leave us? With two possibilities, the children left on their own, potentially starting the fire to make it look as though they died in the fire or for some other unknown reason, or it was just bad luck, that the same night the children run off the house catches fire, or that the children did die in the fire and by some freak of nature nothing is left to be found. My grandma told me, and she was born in 1931, that she had seen fires in her youth. If someone died in a burning building she told me there WAS the smell of burning bodies, even in situations where it was only one person who burned up and they lived in a big house. She has also stated that the fire department never would have tried to spare the families and hide the body, that they were actually MORE blunt than today when it came to identifying bodies. She also told me that she has never in all her years of living heard of a fire where something wasn't left. Bone fragments, teeth, SOMETHING. So she told me she didn't buy that not for one bit.

 

[catsy101]

So she said her conclusions would be that either A. The kids left of their own free will, or B. The kids were tricked into going somewhere with someone or C. The kids went with someone because they knew the person

She said that if the kids were tricked into going somewhere, IE Going to a neighbor's home for say a Christmas party or something that odds are with 5 of them one of them would have escaped and gotten to someone to get help. So she said it didn't make sense. It is difficult also, to get one child to agree to go someplace with you, harder still to get two children to go with you, even harder to get 3 kids to go with you. She also said Maurice, being 14 would probably have stood up to his siblings and said, "No that's a BAD idea we aren't going, and the younger kids would have listened to him. Because that's the way kids were raised back than.

 

[catsy101]

So that leaves us with two more options. And those options are the kids left of their own free will or the kids went with someone because they knew them.

So if the kids went with someone because they knew them, IE family members or something, the question becomes why? Why would they go with them? She told me that odds are, if say their mother's brother had shown up, Maurice probably still would have thrown a fuss that would have been heard inside the home. Because he would have been the responsible adult and would have most likely insisted they all go into the house and tell the parents where they were headed. If the house was on fire at the time the brother showed up, grandma said that Maurice probably still wouldn't have left. He most likely would have insisted on insuring the parents got out safetly and would have asked the brother to help them.

 

[catsy101]

Very unlikely he would have allowed the house to burn to the ground without anyone making sure the other siblings and parents got out of the home.

 

[catsy101]

I asked grandma about an accident. She told me unless the kids were very stupid ALL of them would not have fallen into a well. She said it was possible for one or even two children to fall down a well. She said that it was not very possible or likely for more than two of them to fall down a well. I asked about a stream and she was quick to tell me that again, one or two could have fallen down a well. But not three or four. She said that even in rural West Virginia in the 1940's there would have been a house nearby and one of the children at least would have run there to try and get help for the children who did fall in a well or fall in a fast moving stream or creek. And if a creek was frozen solid and a child or two fell in, the rest would have gone back and tried to get help. So an accident is out.