WV WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

[CastlesBurning]

What happened to the Sodder family? Where are the missing children? – Film Daily

11 Real-Life Stories That Are Way More Terrifying Than Anything Hollywood Could Dream Up

 

[Ozoner]

What happened to the Sodder family? Where are the missing children? – Film Daily

11 Real-Life Stories That Are Way More Terrifying Than Anything Hollywood Could Dream Up

The writer of the first article didn't do much research.

These non-MSM web stories all do the same thing: they leave out important facts in order to make it seem like there's a mystery when there isn't one.

George had several 55-gallon drums of gasoline in the basement. Even after the house collapsed, the gasoline served as an accelerant that allowed the fire to burn very, very hot under the smoldering heap for several days. It would have been hotter than a furnace in a crematorium. The bodies of the children were likely burned to ash.
Their fate: Kidnapped-murdered or are they still alive?

Grief can lead to powerful denial, and that's what happened here. The parents convinced themselves that the children didn't die in the fire because the truth was overwhelming. The truth is tragic but simple.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

When a fire broke out in the Sodder family’s West Virginia household on Christmas Eve 1945, the parents-of-ten and several siblings got out. Five other children were never found - and neither were any human remains

When a fire broke out in the Sodder family’s West Virginia household on Christmas Eve 1945, the parents-of-ten and several siblings got out. Five other children were never found - and neither were any human remains.
Because Mrs Paxton, herself a mother of two and a grandmother at the time of her death, had survived that same 1945 fire as a baby, escaping with her parents and three other siblings in a case that would spark regional lore, intrigue, conspiracy theories and a highway.

Betty Sodder was one of five children to disappear after the 1945 Christmas Eve fire
Five of ten siblings vanished in a Christmas Eve house fire. Were they taken?

 

[Satch]

When a fire broke out in the Sodder family’s West Virginia household on Christmas Eve 1945, the parents-of-ten and several siblings got out. Five other children were never found - and neither were any human remains

When a fire broke out in the Sodder family’s West Virginia household on Christmas Eve 1945, the parents-of-ten and several siblings got out. Five other children were never found - and neither were any human remains.
Because Mrs Paxton, herself a mother of two and a grandmother at the time of her death, had survived that same 1945 fire as a baby, escaping with her parents and three other siblings in a case that would spark regional lore, intrigue, conspiracy theories and a highway.

Betty Sodder was one of five children to disappear after the 1945 Christmas Eve fire
Five of ten siblings vanished in a Christmas Eve house fire. Were they taken?

Note that some reports say that remains were found. But with it being Christmas, LE did not want to upset the family. I have now concluded that the missing children died in the fire, and that any evidence was bulldozed over by George Sodder about a week later, going against orders of LE not to do that. Whatever remains were left were likely lost or contaminated due to the following:

1.) Lost due to the bulldozing of the property
2.) Lost to time
3.) The poor search abilities of the "Barney Fife" townspeople.
4.) The apathetic and at times angry attitude that neighbors had towards the family. George Sodder was a very politically opinionated person who's attitudes were not welcome by the community.

Combining these four factors I believe the fire was the work of an arsonist. The same person who cut the phone lines and moved the ladder, so George couldn't get to the upstairs windows, started the fire.

Satch

 

[Berrybell]

Note that some reports say that remains were found. But with it being Christmas, LE did not want to upset the family. I have now concluded that the missing children died in the fire, and that any evidence was bulldozed over by George Sodder about a week later, going against orders of LE not to do that. Whatever remains were left were likely lost or contaminated due to the following:

1.) Lost due to the bulldozing of the property
2.) Lost to time
3.) The poor search abilities of the "Barney Fife" townspeople.
4.) The apathetic and at times angry attitude that neighbors had towards the family. George Sodder was a very politically opinionated person who's attitudes were not welcome by the community.

Combining these four factors I believe the fire was the work of an arsonist. The same person who cut the phone lines and moved the ladder, so George couldn't get to the upstairs windows, started the fire.

Satch

Satch, you have made really good points.

 

[carolann0308]

1. The house burnt to the ground and caved into the basement. There were no qualified people sifting through the blackened wet rubble (like archeologists) before it was bulldozed
2. The water in the barrel was frozen that night, so any water the fire department pumped into the basement froze too. Again making forensics very difficult
3. Fire department in town was staffed by volunteers, not professional fire inspectors. They showed up 5-6 hours after the fire.
4. "The phone lines were cut" the house was completely destroyed, old cloth wire sheathing would burn up too.
5. Neither vehicle would not start.. or were they unable to start them ? George was barefoot so if he didn't have time to put on shoes grabbing his car keys is unlikely.
6. How do you get 5 kids out of a house without anyone noticing or making a sound

Most of the 'facts' sound like hearsay or wishful thinking.
Witnesses are not always reliable especially if they are just trying to be helpful or get their opinions in the paper.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

Note that some reports say that remains were found. But with it being Christmas, LE did not want to upset the family. I have now concluded that the missing children died in the fire, and that any evidence was bulldozed over by George Sodder about a week later, going against orders of LE not to do that. Whatever remains were left were likely lost or contaminated due to the following:

1.) Lost due to the bulldozing of the property
2.) Lost to time
3.) The poor search abilities of the "Barney Fife" townspeople.
4.) The apathetic and at times angry attitude that neighbors had towards the family. George Sodder was a very politically opinionated person who's attitudes were not welcome by the community.

Combining these four factors I believe the fire was the work of an arsonist. The same person who cut the phone lines and moved the ladder, so George couldn't get to the upstairs windows, started the fire.

Satch

Was there a reason for him to bulldoze the site?

 

[Satch]

Was there a reason for him to bulldoze the site?

It was so painful for the family to look at the tragic remains of the house, burned to skeptical ruins, that George bulldozed it about a week or less after the tragedy. I think I remember that at least one or both of the parents was so heartbroken that they did not go to the funerals. I know that later on George and Jennie converted the house site into a floral garden to remember the children that perished. George Sodder died in 1969. Jeannie lived until 1989, rarely leaving the house, often dressing in black. She tended that memorial garden for the rest of her life.

Satch

 

[Carnifax]

The writer of the first article didn't do much research.

These non-MSM web stories all do the same thing: they leave out important facts in order to make it seem like there's a mystery when there isn't one.

George had several 55-gallon drums of gasoline in the basement. Even after the house collapsed, the gasoline served as an accelerant that allowed the fire to burn very, very hot under the smoldering heap for several days. It would have been hotter than a furnace in a crematorium. The bodies of the children were likely burned to ash.
Their fate: Kidnapped-murdered or are they still alive?

Grief can lead to powerful denial, and that's what happened here. The parents convinced themselves that the children didn't die in the fire because the truth was overwhelming. The truth is tragic but simple.

Where did you find that George had 2 drums of 55 gal each of gasoline in his basement? It would seem impractical that he stored gasoline in the basement of his home, even from the smell/vapors alone. He may have had a small amount but that would be very heavy to move in and out. Furthermore why did he keep it in the basement? He wouldnt have needed to have 110 gallons of gasoline to work on an engine. It would have been smarter to keep it outside in the garage to fuel up the trucks there.

 

[Carnifax]

Note that some reports say that remains were found. But with it being Christmas, LE did not want to upset the family. I have now concluded that the missing children died in the fire, and that any evidence was bulldozed over by George Sodder about a week later, going against orders of LE not to do that. Whatever remains were left were likely lost or contaminated due to the following:

1.) Lost due to the bulldozing of the property
2.) Lost to time
3.) The poor search abilities of the "Barney Fife" townspeople.
4.) The apathetic and at times angry attitude that neighbors had towards the family. George Sodder was a very politically opinionated person who's attitudes were not welcome by the community.

Combining these four factors I believe the fire was the work of an arsonist. The same person who cut the phone lines and moved the ladder, so George couldn't get to the upstairs windows, started the fire.

Satch

A few comments if I may...
I dont think the fact that it was Christmas Eve played a part in the decision to tell (or not tell) the family about the status of the kids. I think it much more of a factor that the fire chief was faced with the biggest challenge in his life and couldnt handle it. He simply was way out of his league. He probably knew there were going to be consequences for having not arrived at the scene until 8 hours after being notified and was playing damage control. This is a huge piece of this puzzle that details are missing about that would help color this story more. What did he do EXACTLY from when he was notified until when he arrived at the scene.
By this time a huge crowd had gathered (Ive read hundreds of people). Can you imagine facing hundreds of people that day? The questions, stares, threats, etc?

As important of a detail it is re: George backfilling the hole with outside dirt, it probably didnt seem like that big of a decision at the time. But all he did was add dirt. Whatever remains (if any) are likely still there. But if they arent there, that doesnt mean they WERENT there.

While Fayetteville was (and still is) a small town in middle America, that doesnt necessarily mean they were backwater hicks in terms of processes/infastructure, etc. the state fire marshall was onsite the day of the fire so he would have certainly overseen the operation.

George was probably an interesting guy. Ive heard that the community embraced the family and they were as much a part of them as anyone. I think Ive heard the phrase "well respected" used in some report. Ive also heard the neighbors were scared of him and that there was whisperings of kidnapping even BEFORE the fire. So maybe this comes down to one persons opinion. Furthermore, I dont think having an opinion that goes against yours is enough to burn your house down on Christmas Eve with your family inside.
Additionally, George's views on Mussolini were in line with most of America's opinions, Mussolini was a bad dude who sided with Hitler and got his butt kicked (by the Allies). If George was pro-Mussolini, I can see people in America being upset with him. This piece doesnt make sense to me.

I dont think the fire was the work of an arsonist. I think George screwed up somehow. Either he overloaded the electrical circuit or maybe the stove caught something on fire. I think the truth is much more mundane and boring and tragic than the elaborate arson story.

 

[Carnifax]

1. The house burnt to the ground and caved into the basement. There were no qualified people sifting through the blackened wet rubble (like archeologists) before it was bulldozed
2. The water in the barrel was frozen that night, so any water the fire department pumped into the basement froze too. Again making forensics very difficult
3. Fire department in town was staffed by volunteers, not professional fire inspectors. They showed up 5-6 hours after the fire.
4. "The phone lines were cut" the house was completely destroyed, old cloth wire sheathing would burn up too.
5. Neither vehicle would not start.. or were they unable to start them ? George was barefoot so if he didn't have time to put on shoes grabbing his car keys is unlikely.
6. How do you get 5 kids out of a house without anyone noticing or making a sound

Most of the 'facts' sound like hearsay or wishful thinking.
Witnesses are not always reliable especially if they are just trying to be helpful or get their opinions in the paper.

A few questions if I may...
The state fire marshall was onsite the day of the fire so it wasnt as if there were absolutely no qualified people around. Clearly the protocols we have in place today are drastically different.
We dont know that water pumped into the basement would have froze. While there are reports that the water barrel was frozen, its doubtful it stayed that cold the rest of the day. I tried to look at temperature records during that time but couldnt find anything that far back. If it was THAT brutally cold, we didnt the water in the fire truck freeze?
So I am going to assume that the phone wire that was examined was the piece from the telephone pole to the house. Im not sure how someone could have arrived at the conclusion that the wires were cut. Phone lines tend to be smaller than typical house wires making it difficult to tell how the wire and insulation was broken or cut. I think it was an offhand remark and here we are years later taking it as some kind of evidence of wrong doing. Im not trying to claim the wire wasnt cut merely suggestion it would have been very difficult to tell (again, my opinion).
As far as George not being able to start the trucks, who knows? Cars and trucks engines were more unreliable then. It was somewhat easy to flood them and in a panicked moment who knows what George did or didnt do? I dont attribute this very much to the overall story.

 

[Olivia_Elaine_Smith]

Hello!

I believe the kids died in the fire, it gives many evidences.

I read in a article, that some firefighters said to FJ Morris, that they found bones,
one of them was the brother from Jennie Sodder (the mother). But no one
told the family about this. It was a rumor in the village.

John Sodder said to the police, that
he saw his siblings in her beds. He said to them, that
the house is burn, but no one reacted.
Presumably was they already died.
This could explain, why he not search his whole life to his siblings.

This is a theory!

 

[Cryptic]

It would seem impractical that he stored gasoline in the basement of his home, even from the smell/vapors alone. He wouldnt have needed to have 110 gallons of gasoline to work on an engine.

The only thing that I can think of would be black market gasoline.

WWII had ended September 02, 1945, with Japan's surrender. Perhaps gas was slow to enter the civilian market following the end of the war? As a result, at Christmas 1945, there were still people willing to sell and buy black market gas?

Mussolini was a bad dude who sided with Hitler and got his butt kicked (by the Allies). If George was pro-Mussolini, I can see people in America being upset with him. This piece doesnt make sense to me.

I think it would depend on when he was vocal and how vocal he was regarding Mussolini.

Prior to the war, there was a certain amount of "soft" support for fascist leaders in the US as they were perceived as being pro law and order and able to keep the commies far, far, away.

As a result, general, or even direct support of Mussolini would not have stood out that much prior to Pearl Harbor. After Pearl Harbor, direct support for now enemy leaders was going to receive alot of negative attention.

But.... somebody supporting American troops, but keeping general fascist /anti communist sympathies with a pro US spin would probably not receive negative attention.

As a side note, Generals Patton and Macarthur were known to be, well, rather sympathetic to fascist thinking- so long as the fascists in question were not enemies of the US.

 

[Carnifax]

John Sodder said to the police, that
he saw his siblings in her beds. He said to them, that
the house is burn, but no one reacted.
Presumably was they already died.
This could explain, why he not search his whole life to his siblings.

I think Joe may have changed this detail in his story too. At first he said he woke up his siblings, then he said he couldn’t remember if he did.
This is part of the tragedy of the whole thing. No matter what part he played, he had to live with that burden his whole life.
In moments of extreme crisis like this, different people remember different things.

 

[Carnifax]

The only thing that I can think of would be black market gasoline.

WWII had ended September 02, 1945, with Japan's surrender. Perhaps gas was slow to enter the civilian market following the end of the war? As a result, at Christmas 1945, there were still people willing to sell and buy black market gas?



I think it would depend on when he was vocal and how vocal he was regarding Mussolini.

Prior to the war, there was a certain amount of "soft" support for fascist leaders in the US as they were perceived as being pro law and order and able to keep the commies far, far, away.

As a result, general, or even direct support of Mussolini would not have stood out that much prior to Pearl Harbor. After Pearl Harbor, direct support for now enemy leaders was going to receive alot of negative attention.

But.... somebody supporting American troops, but keeping general fascist /anti communist sympathies with a pro US spin would probably not receive negative attention.

As a side note, Generals Patton and Macarthur were known to be, well, rather sympathetic to fascist thinking- so long as the fascists in question were not enemies of the US.

Black market gasoline….Hmmm, I never thought about THAT. Very interesting. The Logistics might be tough but if there’s a will, there’s a way. But it probably would have been easier to keep in a garage or outbuilding than in the basement if nothing else for the ease of use. But again, I wasn’t there.
As far as supporting foreign leaders, there was a sizable population of people in the US who wanted nothing to do with the war or even what side the US should be on. But to your point, I agree there were folks still loyal to their “motherland” and their leaders. But I can’t imagine it would ruffle anyone’s feathers to the point they would attempt something like this.

 

[Cryptic]

Black market gasoline….Hmmm, I never thought about THAT. Very interesting.

But it probably would have been easier to keep in a garage or outbuilding than in the basement if nothing else for the ease of use.

My guess is that the gas was for sale, as well as for personal use. Likewise, keeping it in the home would lessen the chances of it being stolen by rivals or customers.

But to your point, I agree there were folks still loyal to their “motherland” and their leaders. But I can’t imagine it would ruffle anyone’s feathers to the point they would attempt something like this.

Whether loyal to a "motherland" or being 100% homegrown with fascist leanings, I agree- unless the individual was extremely vocal about it, having fascist sympathies was very unlikely to lead to an attack on one's home. Heck, General Patton had home grown fascist leanings.

But.... an attack by criminal rivals in the black market gas trade could be a different matter.

 

[ColyH]

This case is a prime example how details can get added to a long unsolved mystery which can throw people completely off track.

 

[GarnetScarlett]

It was my understanding that George actually was opposed to Mussolini and his Fascists. Apparently many of the Italians in that area were pro-Mussolini, and George's blunt criticisms of the dictator angered a lot of them. (Maybe they felt it was somehow "unpatriotic" for someone of Italian birth to oppose the leader of Italy??) It's true that some Americans did support the Fascists (think about Lindbergh, an ardent fan of Hitler), but I think in this instance the anti-Fascist George had made himself very unpopular!

 

[Dreamr17]

Hello! I am new to the site but a long time follower of this story. After spending several days reading through these forums, I keep seeing links to the fire marshal report, and I've found links to a few pages, but I feel like I am overlooking the way to read the entire report. Could anyone point me in the right direction, please?

 

[ColyH]

I just posted a video at the link below that goes into more detail about the fire in fact there is a photo of the burnt down house in the video.

Mysterious WV Case Study: The Sodder Children