Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #88

[PrairieWind]

Megnut, thanks for the links.

 

[housewife]

I'm sure the vast majority of cases of DV and cooercive control, don't end in murder.

In Utah, one in four adult homicides are related to domestic violence. Which is too many, IMO.

If they had seen this video before then - along with the hundreds of hours of other intenventions officers have assisted at, where both members of the couple are still alive and well

Is there a source proving hundreds of hours of other interventions Moab police correctly performed, and followed up with fatality reviews? I'm having a hard time finding data from Utah beyond 2020.
We don't even know when Moab police stopped following their own policies. The July 2022 Domestic Violence Report I have previously linked has detailed information regarding how the Moab police did not assess the situation correctly, nor did they even properly apply Utah's Physical Aggressor law correctly.

 

[Sundog]

In Utah, one in four adult homicides are related to domestic violence. Which is too many, IMO.

<snipped for focus>

According to your source provided, about 16% of adult homicides nationally are related to domestic violence (1 in 6 deaths). And for Utah, it's about 25% (1 in 4 deaths). I wonder what the data show for other states.

Utah Statistics​

• • In Utah, one in 10 males and two in 11 females will be the victims of interpersonal violence.2
  • Data from U.S. crime reports suggest that 16% (about 1 in 6) of homicide victims are killed by an intimate partner and that nearly half of female homicide victims in the U.S. are killed by a current or former male intimate partner.3
  • In Utah, one in four adult homicides are related to domestic violence.4

 

[LinasK]

Sure, that could be what set BL off. Or it could be (based on some accounts from witnesses) he was upset GP ended up paying for what was intended to be a "dine and dash" meal at what was a relatively pricey restaurant for them. Or it might not have had anything to do with their excursion to the Merry Piglets & apparent arguments there. Just because A happens before B doesn't mean A caused B. And from all accounts, the couple argued ALOT. So there were plenty of arguments that didn't lead to death.

An earlier poster made the claim that research has demonstrated DV ALWAYS leads to the victim's death. I don't think that's true at all and would still like to see some documentation for that bold claim. But when it IS true, there is still some sort of immediate trigger for the homicidal act. It may not be a rational trigger and we may knew find it, but it was still there. We don't know what the trigger was in this case except that the death happened weeks after the Moab stop. Maybe it did have to do with the Merry Piglets but we'll never know for sure.

As I posted earlier, I do not think LE or the City of Moab is responsible for Gabby's death. To me, there's no obvious connection between Gabby's death weeks later and not arresting one of them for the night and instead separating them, treating the event as a mental health crisis. Gabby did tell the officers she had a mental disorder (OCD) after all.

Personally I think the couple had a "toxic" relationship. By that I mean they tended to bring out the worst in each other. But I'm not sure all the DV labels that have been bandied about here fit. The couple fought a lot according to a number of people who knew them-- high school friends, co-workers in FL & NC, BL's sister, GP's friend, Rose. Except for Rose, no one mentioned physical fights. (And GP's family didn't even see or hear any verbal fights apparently. And nobody in her family saw any abuse.) Yet we now know BOTH G&B may have responded in physical ways when fighting with each other on a regular basis. Moab LE didn't know any of that.

In my opinion there was a snowball's chance in the Moab desert of GP immediately changing her mind about staying with BL because of anything Moab LE did or said. But maybe as time went on, the Moab experience might have had an effect... Maybe after spending 6 days alone in a nice, clean, Marriott-owned, air-conditioned hotel (no dirty feet!) and getting her hair dyed and cut GP was starting to change her mind about continuing a cramped, uncomfortable, and dirty van life with BL. We don't know what else she did by herself in SLC but it has been reported she spent a lot of time on the phone with her parents that week, particularly her dad. Maybe when BL returned from FL she started to hint at the possibility of either a breakup or at least an earlier-than-planned end to the trip. GP said in one of their first van life videos she wanted to live a van life so she wouldn't have to work a real job. Maybe the idea of doing manual labor on a pumpkin farm in Oregon wasn't so attractive to her after all.

There's little doubt an abused partner is often at much greater risk if/when she decides to leave the relationship. Maybe things GP said-- perhaps about leaving the trip-- are what set off BL. If so, I guess one could argue Moab LE (particularly the park ranger) might have contributed to GP's death by encouraging her to question the trajectory of her life. But it would be pretty ironic to assign blame in that way.
MOO

To me, Brian scored a win in Moab, because he convinced Moab PD (and they didn't recognize the signs of domestic violence) that Gabby was the instigator of that fight (in reality- he started it by grabbing her phone- witnesses reported seeing him hit her), and he got a free night in a motel. This might well have left him feeling empowered 2 weeks later in his fatal fight with her.

 

[NCWatcher]

To me, Brian scored a win in Moab, because he convinced Moab PD (and they didn't recognize the signs of domestic violence) that Gabby was the instigator of that fight (in reality- he started it by grabbing her phone- witnesses reported seeing him hit her), and he got a free night in a motel. This might well have left him feeling empowered 2 weeks later in his fatal fight with her.

Could be.

But Gabby quickly volunteered to Moab LE that she was the instigator and described how she hit BL first. I know abused women (or abused people) often take the blame when they aren't to blame. I'd hope whatever LE training was done would have emphasized that. But without benefit of hindsight I don't think that means everybody can or should assume in a M-F conflict the man is always to blame. There ARE female abusers. Nor does it mean whoever takes the blame isn't guilty of what he/she claims. And there are couples where both are frequently abusers. I'm not sure how much to sort out blame can be done on the roadside (in any situation.) The eyewitness accounts should have been investigated but some of those seem to have changed over time & are now less clear-cut. (It will be interesting to see what people will swear to in court.)

I do think based on my understanding of Utah law LE could have defended arresting GP based on what she said. I don't think that would have changed the ultimate outcome weeks later (she wouldn't have been held very long) but it would have been a defensible arrest IMO. Of course, had that happened, people might be saying THAT empowered BL too. Or if he'd been arrested and held very briefly, that THAT caused the ultimate outcome.

Personally given that she told LE was it was stress, her OCD/anxiety, and so on I personally think seeing it as a mental health issue was also justified regardless of what BL said. I don't doubt he was trying to minimize the situation and avoid blame. But I think what GP said had a bigger effect on the decision made by LE than what BL said. Separating them for the night made sense to me although based on recent evidence, they didn't stay separated that night.
MOO

 

[LinasK]

Could be.

But Gabby quickly volunteered to Moab LE that she was the instigator and described how she hit BL first. I know abused women (or abused people) often take the blame when they aren't to blame. I'd hope whatever LE training was done would have emphasized that. But without benefit of hindsight I don't think that means everybody can or should assume in a M-F conflict the man is always to blame. There ARE female abusers. Nor does it mean whoever takes the blame isn't guilty of what he/she claims. And there are couples where both are frequently abusers. I'm not sure how much to sort out blame can be done on the roadside (in any situation.) The eyewitness accounts should have been investigated but some of those seem to have changed over time & are now less clear-cut. (It will be interesting to see what people will swear to in court.)

I do think based on my understanding of Utah law LE could have defended arresting GP based on what she said. I don't think that would have changed the ultimate outcome weeks later (she wouldn't have been held very long) but it would have been a defensible arrest IMO. Of course, had that happened, people might be saying THAT empowered BL too. Or if he'd been arrested and held very briefly, that THAT caused the ultimate outcome.

Personally given that she told LE was it was stress, her OCD/anxiety, and so on I personally think seeing it as a mental health issue was also justified regardless of what BL said. I don't doubt he was trying to minimize the situation and avoid blame. But I think what GP said had a bigger effect on the decision made by LE than what BL said. Separating them for the night made sense to me although based on recent evidence, they didn't stay separated that night.
MOO

Yes, because that's what abused women do- take the blame. He was the instigator by grabbing her phone. That's why she responded. I take issue with your earlier post stating that they brought out the worst in each other. That implies that they were equals. They weren't.

 

[nao]

Yes, because that's what abused women do- take the blame. He was the instigator by grabbing her phone. That's why she responded. I take issue with your earlier post stating that they brought out the worst in each other. That implies that they were equals. They weren't.

Moo..that is an untrue generalization. Abuse victims can and do call police for their own protection. Listen to any police scanner domestic violence is very common and those in those situations deal with it in many different ways...moo

 

[LinasK]

Moo..that is an untrue generalization. Abuse victims can and do call police for their own protection. Listen to any police scanner domestic violence is very common and those in those situations deal with it in many different ways...moo

Gabby didn't call the police. That's who this thread is about.

 

[cocomod]

Gabby didn't call the police. That's who this thread is about.

No, you are completely correct, a member of the public called and reported Brian abusing her. Also, she did take the blame as she likely did often in the relationship.

A recent arrest in Utah highlights DV issues! This guy has been in trouble numerous times, but the women have stopped communicating with prosecutors, so charges have been dropped multiple times - which lead to the recent abduction and DV. Point being, abusers manipulate. Log into Facebook

 

[NCWatcher]

Yes, because that's what abused women do- take the blame. He was the instigator by grabbing her phone. That's why she responded. I take issue with your earlier post stating that they brought out the worst in each other. That implies that they were equals. They weren't.

Of course you don't need to agree with my opinions or anyone else's. But my saying G and B brought out the worst in each other was not intended to (nor does it IMO) imply anything one way or the other about status.

On the side of the road outside Moab I don't know if it was clear to LE the phone grabbing caused GP to slap BL (as you are saying) But even if it had been clear, I'm not sure
grabbing a cell phone from a partner would count as instigating domestic violence to the point of demanding by Utah law the person must be arrested. That would seem to be a matter of opinion too.
MOO

 

[Skigirl]

Of course you don't need to agree with my opinions or anyone else's. But my saying G and B brought out the worst in each other was not intended to (nor does it IMO) imply anything one way or the other about status.

On the side of the road outside Moab I don't know if it was clear to LE the phone grabbing caused GP to slap BL (as you are saying) But even if it had been clear, I'm not sure
grabbing a cell phone from a partner would count as instigating domestic violence to the point of demanding by Utah law the person must be arrested. That would seem to be a matter of opinion too.
MOO

Given what we know now about Brian's previous writings, his "worst" was already out before Gabby entered the picture: Inside Brian Laundrie’s demented drawings as treasure trove of writings is released

 

[NCWatcher]

Given what we know now about Brian's previous writings, his "worst" was already out before Gabby entered the picture: Inside Brian Laundrie’s demented drawings as treasure trove of writings is released

They dated in high school so I'm pretty sure GP was in the picture in 2017 (the earliest year the materials seemed to cite per the above link.) That's only 4 years before 23-year old BL killed her.

I personally do think they brought out the worst in each other. But that doesn't mean I think everything about BL was due to GP's influence or everything about GP was due to BL's.
MOO

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828944624095748531

 

[rleigh123]

I think that a lot of bright young women tend to romanticize the "tortured poet/artist/musician" type. They interpret his dark thoughts as emotional depth and convince themselves that his moodiness is only because he's so much more conscientious about what's going on in the world than others are. They fall into a sort of "savior complex" over being the only one who really understands him, the only person whom he can really talk to, the only place where he finds beauty in this otherwise ugly world.

***IMO***

So well stated. You nailed it. Decades ago, books, soap operas, movies, music, etc. romanticized what you've described.


It was everywhere. Bo and Hope in Days of Our Lives. (Loved them!) Jesse and Rory in Gilmore Girls. Even in so-called classics like Wuthering Heights.


I don't know if this is still a trope in media aimed at today's youth. I'm out of that loop.


But I think there's been an awakening in how we look at red flags and abusive behavior, thanks in part to scandalous revelations that create viral movements, and cases such as sweet Gabby's.


The revelations in this case (the Utah video, Gabby's thoughts and feelings, witnesses statements, her killer's thoughts and actions, and those of his family) have been so enlightening for so many.


Gabby Petito has made a difference.


*****All IMO*****

 

[rleigh123]

<modsnip>

They are entitled to defend themselves against a lawsuit, but they are the ones who showed her that she had few options and that she was terribly unsafe and vulnerable; that law enforcement would not only not help her, but would blame her, side with him, hear out his side of the story and almost unquestioningly believe him without ever asking her if what he said was true, call her the aggressor, terrify her, demoralize her, maybe even toss her in jail.

THIS. Thank you. IMO I think many, many people have learned from the Utah video. It started discussions. It brought awareness. It taught lessons.


***IMO***

 

[rleigh123]

[....]
What this lawsuit MIGHT do is effect change. Not just in that jurisdiction but countrywide. And not just change for LE but education across the board, universal awareness of what intimate partner violence looks like, how to recognize it, how to intervene, etc.

IMO GP's family is COMMITTED to effecting that change, to protect and save future Gabbys.
[...]
I applaud it.

JMO

Snipped by me
BBM
*********

Yes yes and yes! You read my mind. I think what we've learned from the Gabby Petito case is invaluable and made a difference from the start, and is still making a difference. As is her family.

****IMO****

 

[rleigh123]

Let's not also forget the effect the Moab encounter had on BL. It wasn't just that he wasn't held accountable for harming GP; he was told that he was in the right, and that their relationship problems were her fault. He was assured, repeatedly, that he was the victim in the situation.

GP learned that she couldn't turn to law enforcement for help, and BL learned that how he'd been treating her was totally fine and understandable, because she was the problem.

IMO, the Moab stop only empowered him to push the DV further, because he saw he could talk his way out of it, and because she was a little blonde with mental health issues, people would believe him.

Exactly. And he gaslighted them by being cool, calm, and collected while portraying her as hysterical. The out of control hysterical female.

IMO:

Yes, thank you. Excellent points. Unfortunately, I think this is exactly what happened at the Moab stop.

And taking into account the officer's history - the officer who spoke to a crying Gabby, well it's heartbreaking and wrong and I'm thankful it's still being discussed and scrutinized three years later. (Although I know it must be so painful for her family to have to take these steps.)

***ALL IMO MOO***

 

[housewife]

Let's not also forget the effect the Moab encounter had on BL. It wasn't just that he wasn't held accountable for harming GP; he was told that he was in the right, and that their relationship problems were her fault. He was assured, repeatedly, that he was the victim in the situation.

GP learned that she couldn't turn to law enforcement for help, and BL learned that how he'd been treating her was totally fine and understandable, because she was the problem.

IMO, the Moab stop only empowered him to push the DV further, because he saw he could talk his way out of it, and because she was a little blonde with mental health issues, people would believe him.

Just wanted to highlight this point again. It's so important!

 

[cenazoic]

Part 3 of the FBI's documents on Brian Laundrie were released on the 17th:

https://vault.fbi.gov/brian-laundrie/brian-laundrie-part-03/

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

So. much. luminol. in that FBI file above.