Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #67

[Angels Advocate]

He doesn't have to get on the stand or say a word for the defense to convince a jury that there is reasonable doubt [ETA: that BL killed GP.] Maybe he will be convicted on the bank fraud charge, but if he "didn't know she was deceased, and had permission to use the card/funds" maybe that will result in a low sentence or no time. ]

There are plenty of cases where the defendant didn't take the stand and were found not guilty.

Two very famous examples:

• California v. OJS
• Florida v. CMA

Yes. Again it’s all based on plausible deniability.

 

[WizardQuest]

I think you're right. They are more social. Like some folks who like to stay in bed and breakfasts, for that reason. Still bizarre she thought the van was abandoned. Did she expect to see them both sitting in the cab, waving? LOL!

Could have something to do with the weather maybe? just guessing.

If it were hot there (idk the temp that day or time), anybody in the van (sleeping or in the back) would probably need air? So, maybe assumed nobody in the back? And then it looked like on the video that there was nobody in the front? And windows were rolled up?

If it were hot and the van wasn't abandoned, the recently open door makes some sense possibly? That they were in the back and just got a whiff of fresh air with door being open?

 

[simplemind]

The parents through SB reported that Monday 9/13 was last day they saw BL. Didn’t say when on that Monday. Sorry, I confused the days too. They went in Tuesday to look for him MOO, he left either late Monday or early Tuesday and his parents did not see him leave as they could not describe what he was wearing. Just that his hiking pack was missing, walket and phone left.

But SB did report that the parents looked for him both Monday 9/13 and 9/14. I found it odd that SB was offering the 9/13 search info as new 3 weeks in because it would also excuse ChL's truck being near or around the reserve on 9/13. Could you point me to a source for the parents reporting not seeing him leave?

 

[indycindy]

I thought it was another YouTuber who took their footage and enhanced it and slowed it down?

It was Gray Hughes that first slowed the Bethunes’ (sp) video down.

 

[leavetheguntakethecannoli]

Wow apparently so!

Re: the USMS being involved in the search for BL:

Having had work-related contact with the US Marshal Service, I have no doubt they will locate him. They are amazing at what they do.

 

[NCWatcher]

This is something that has been troubling me. Apparently, the Laundries told LE that Brian was wearing a hiking pack with a waist strap, but there was no description of his clothing. Further, there seemed to be confusion about where the Laundries found his car (at best.) Or the Laundries simply lied about where they found the car which turns out to have been 16 miles from their house rather than 5 miles away. This, of course, leads to further questions of how did they think BL would get home without the car?

Presumably, if the Laundries saw BL on his way out of the house to go hiking, he would not have the hiking pack on - it would be in his hand being carried by the straps or a handle because he was going to go drive the Mustang to the Reserve. No one drives a car to go hiking wearing a hiking pack! How could you fit in the front seat, for one thing?

So...it would seem to me that Brian's attire would have been far more noticeable than the pack he was carrying in his hand. Yes, they would have seen the pack, but what about the clothes? But there was no description of his clothes.

And the Laundries apparently told LE to search an area of the reserve far away from where the Laundries found the car until 3 city mower men stepped forward in the press and said where they saw the Mustang parked. Then we have a new date that BL left for his hike as well.

It's possible he left a note and they didn't see him leave. So they don't know what he was wearing. But they do know that giant pack is gone as they looked in his room. Otherwise they wouldn't have known he didn't take his wallet and phone. If that had seen him leave they wouldn't have known if he was carrying those.
JMO

 

[CarolynAB2]

It all comes down to the jury, judge’s instructions and the attorneys. If the jury feels there is reasonable doubt, that BL could have gone in a walk about. Maybe after a fight that got too heated —those Moab tapes can be used to his advantage, that Gabby gets physical, that she scratched. He has that One witness who states she picked him up. Maybe 2. He comes back and no Gabby finds her body later and panics, sure he will be blamed. Maybe other campers heard them fight. Maybe, maybe, but all possible, all reasonable. It’s not a Big Foot theory.
If it’s reasonable , and judge impresses upon jury that they must keep in mind, I can see without some piece of more solid evidence, that he gets off
I believe that the simplest and most likely thing that happened was that he killed her and took off in a panic home. How reasonable is it that a killer happened upon her alone and killed her? It will depend upon the jury to assess that

Yes, they have a history of hitting each other. I don't know if there was DV involved, I think a lot of people are projecting their personal history into what they see on the bodycam video, but it does appear that there was mutual battery (when domestic partners both use any deliberate and unlawful force or violence against each other). So, with the documented history of mutual battery, even if she had his DNA under her fingernails, can it be proven that it wasn't from a fight they had before he hiked off? I can see reasonable doubt with that too. Although, any DNA under her nails was probably outside too long in the elements to be useful, from what I've heard experts say.

ETA: It's interesting that the couple who picked BL up and the other woman who picked him up hitchhiking didn't say they saw scratches (defensive wounds) on his face.

 

[Angels Advocate]

You know, I think that one of the main things that come out of this case is a greater understanding of domestic violence and coercive control.

I just want to say that explosive tempers are not required in order for abuse to occur. Many of us have experienced DV, but not all of us had partners who had explosive tempers. Sometimes they are calm and smiling. Sometimes they are impassive. Sometimes they laugh (in my view, that person needs a full psychiatric evaluation, with an MMPI or similar as well).

Indeed, people who raise their voices and shout attract attention, from neighbors, from others - so many chronic abusers do not do that. They are conscious of what they are doing. They know where to pinch (the leg above the knee is a common place, the muscles hurt a lot if someone digs their fingers into them - and the bruises are easily hidden). This type of abuse can happen right in a public place, because to the casual observer, the hand on the thigh looks like a romantic gesture - they don't know that it's making the woman tense up and that her topics of conversation are being controlled. Her gaze may be controlled. One woman's husband didn't want her to "eat too much" and he would signal when to stop eating by pinching her there.

Many people who scream and shout do not hit and in some families (called "high EE") it's normal for parents to yell at each other. But no one gets hit, pinched or murdered, and finances are not controlled by one person.

Stressors make people more likely to act out physically, even if they haven't done so before. Two controlling people in one relationship is also a recipe for DV - but again, not always.

Bullying is definitely a precursor to physical, financial and sexual abuse. Perceived differences in status (the abuser thinks they're "worth more") are another factor. But not all abuse is accompanied by bullying, that's for sure.

Excellent points that are not known by most. Thank you for sharing your insights here.

 

[MyBelle]

Mom and Dad not saying anything seems wrong to the average person, but it can be explained that BL told them he needed to talk to a lawyer, the parents connected him with SB who advised both BL and his parents to say nothing to anyone, and that's what they did: followed the advice of their attorney. This doesn't have to make BL or the parents look guilty of anything, nor should it to a jury. To everyone on this forum, sure. We can have all the opinions and gut feelings in the world.

The cell phone data will be interesting. It could trip BL up in a statement he made, but - - he never made a statement which leaves a lot of wiggle room to explain whatever turns up as far as location data of where the phones were when.

BBM. Very true. Individuals who comprise a jury also have opinions and gut feelings. The parents and BL's refusal to return GP's parents calls and texts is evidence of consciousness of guilt, imo. There is no excuse for it. jmo

 

[10ofRods]

I must've missed something. Why would we think they were walking? Is that because the van may have been in the same location at Spread Creek both before and after? Perhaps there was some confusion about when the van was there. (I guess they could've hitched to Jackson & MP, but why hitch if you have a van??)

Or maybe they parked the van there, then drove to MP, and drove back. I remember that by the time the Bethunes were there, the campground was full. But if they indeed were there both before and after the MP trip, BL & GP may have been able to get the same spot twice precisely because it wasn't an official spot.

Without reopening that whole discussion, maybe they did put up the tent across the creek. (I realize that GP's stepfather did not say the tent was there, just that there was a good place for one). If the tent was up before the trip to MP, though, they might not have been 100% sure they'd get the same spot when they got back. And we don't know if they slept in the tent or the van during the days at Spread Creek.

Relevant questions -- I hope LE has the answers, even if we don't:

• Is it certain the van was parked in the same spot before and after the MP trip?
• If so, did it look like the van had gone anywhere and returned? Were there multiple tire tracks in and out, beyond what would be needed for parking? Was the van in the exact same orientation?
• Was there evidence that they did have the tent up across the creek? Would the tent have been visible from other campsites?

JMO

The Bethunes say it was about 6:30 pm when they saw the van on the 27th - well after Merry Piglets.

There's on. evidence. that has been in MSM of the van being there any earlier than that. The. entire area. was blacktop. and. it is against the rules to go off the blacktop in that area. The van is solidly on the blacktop and has room to go in (or out) without leaving much of a track. People would have been using that same pull out were the van not parked there (which was illegal for overnight parking/camping).

So since we have no pictures of the van at another time prior to the Bethune sighting, your questions can't be answered - but I don't think they walked to MP's. It was on their way into Jackson, they stopped and parked there.

No, the tent would not have. been visible from other campsites. You can drive it on Google, you can look at the satellite terrain pictures. No tent (whether across the tiny, shallow creek, or not, would have been visible from the legally camped people at the actual campground). One would want to make sure of this, because many people will immediately tell the campground host about illegal camping - as there are good reasons why it is prohibited.

 

[NCHydrangea]

Coyotes got ahold of my brother. They even chewed his shoes off.

I think those type of travelers have different habits than a "vacationer." It's more like a lifestyle. Not only that, but people are sooo different in that regard. I'm like you, but I always marvel at the number of tourists who make fast friends with other hotel guests and the like in just a few short days. jmo

This is an opinion coming from a very novice weekend camper in the South, so I can strike up a conversation in the grocery line:

Whenever we’ve gone camping, I always take notice of other camp sites. I notice if it appears that someone has just arrived because it really does look abandoned. No chairs or rugs sitting around, no wood pile, I don’t know. Hard to explain.

MOO

 

[Tiff23fr]

Brian Laundrie manhunt: Wyoming restaurant fight is key, FBI behavioral analyst says

Sat, October 16, 2021, 6:36 AM

View attachment 317645
Merry Piglets turns 50

Dr. Ann Wolbert Burgess, who pioneered the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit, says the argument between fugitive Brian Laundrie and Gabby Petito that witnesses observed at a Wyoming restaurant on Aug. 27 may be the key to Petito's tragic fate.

One of the last times Petito, 22, was seen alive involved an explosive argument between Laundrie, 23, and wait staff at a Jackson Hole restaurant called Merry Piglets, witness Nina Celie Angelo told Fox News Digital in September.

"The restaurant incident … is the second and most important," Burgess, author of the forthcoming book "A Killer by Design: Murders, Mindhunters, and My Quest to Decipher the Criminal," told Fox News Digital of two events prior to Petito's death that she said raised red flags.

The forensic nurse said the other significant incident, indicative of serious problems in their relationship and danger in Laundrie's actions, was the domestic dispute called in on Aug. 12 in Moab, Utah.

"How she has to apologize for his behavior is something that's kind of characteristic, and this probably enrages him even more because he wants to appear in a certain way," Burgess said of the incident at the restaurant.

Angelo, a photographer, said in September that she couldn’t overhear the conversation between Petito and Laundrie at the restaurant but believed Laundrie was arguing with staff over the bill or about money. She described his body language as "aggressive" and said he left and returned about four times.

At one point, Petito came inside and apologized for Laundrie’s behavior, according to Angelo.

The restaurant incident, Burgess said, was "on the day or very close to the day that she is murdered," Burgess said.

Teton County Coroner Brent Blue on Tuesday announced Petito's cause of death as strangulation and said she likely died three to four weeks before her remains were discovered on Sept. 19, could put her date of death between Aug. 27 and Aug. 30.

I wonder, hypothetically, if it was about more than the notion of the bill itself. Perhaps, Brian tried to use a card and pay for it. The card was declined, maybe he was out of funds. This could create a rapid spiral in an already tense situation. Not only does this impact the ongoing trip, but imagine how it could have impacted an ego.
It would be interesting to know if when Gabby came in and apologized if she ultimately used one of her cards to pay for the meal.
*Opinion/speculation*

 

[JayWill]

Yes, they have a history of hitting each other. I don't know if there was DV involved, I think a lot of people are projecting their personal history into what they see on the bodycam video. but it does appear that there was mutual battery (when domestic partners both use any deliberate and unlawful force or violence against each other). So, with the documented history of mutual battery, even if she had his DNA under her fingernails, can it be proven that it wasn't from a fight they had before he hiked off? I can see reasonable doubt with that too. Although, any DNA under her nails was probably outside too long in the elements to be useful, from what I've heard experts say.

I would scratch him too if he had locked me out of my van and tried to take my phone. Those police ignored the report of a man slapping a woman on the sidewalk in their report, and wrongly concluded that she was the aggressor. That is why they are being investigated IMO.

 

[JayWill]

I wonder, hypothetically, if it was about more than the notion of the bill itself. Perhaps, Brian tried to use a card and pay for it. The card was declined, maybe he was out of funds. This could create a rapid spiral in an already tense situation. Not only does this impact the ongoing trip, but imagine how it could have impacted an ego.
It would be interesting to know if when Gabby came in and apologized if she ultimately used one of her cards to pay for the meal.
*Opinion/speculation*

Good point.

 

[shotgun09]

This is something that has been troubling me. Apparently, the Laundries told LE that Brian was wearing a hiking pack with a waist strap, but there was no description of his clothing. Further, there seemed to be confusion about where the Laundries found his car (at best.) Or the Laundries simply lied about where they found the car which turns out to have been 16 miles from their house rather than 5 miles away. This, of course, leads to further questions of how did they think BL would get home without the car?

Presumably, if the Laundries saw BL on his way out of the house to go hiking, he would not have the hiking pack on - it would be in his hand being carried by the straps or a handle because he was going to go drive the Mustang to the Reserve. No one drives a car to go hiking wearing a hiking pack! How could you fit in the front seat, for one thing?

So...it would seem to me that Brian's attire would have been far more noticeable than the pack he was carrying in his hand. Yes, they would have seen the pack, but what about the clothes? But there was no description of his clothes.

And the Laundries apparently told LE to search an area of the reserve far away from where the Laundries found the car until 3 city mower men stepped forward in the press and said where they saw the Mustang parked. Then we have a new date that BL left for his hike as well.

Expounding on your well thought out post, but what if
the search continues in the reserve, because of some 'perceived' possible planted evidence? I am not saying by whom, but clearly the assistance and "help" that Mr Laundrie was able to provide last week caught my curiosity.

 

[simplemind]

It's possible he left a note and they didn't see him leave. So they don't know what he was wearing. But they do know that giant pack is gone as they looked in his room. Otherwise they wouldn't have known he didn't take his wallet and phone. If that had seen him leave they wouldn't have known if he was carrying those.
JMO

So with the info we have is it possible that the Mustang was there since the 10th?

 

[oviedo]

I wonder, hypothetically, if it was about more than the notion of the bill itself. Perhaps, Brian tried to use a card and pay for it. The card was declined, maybe he was out of funds. This could create a rapid spiral in an already tense situation. Not only does this impact the ongoing trip, but imagine how it could have impacted an ego.
It would be interesting to know if when Gabby came in and apologized if she ultimately used one of her cards to pay for the meal.
*Opinion/speculation*

I think this is a very possible situation …
JMO

 

[cady]

BBM. Very true. Individuals who comprise a jury also have opinions and gut feelings. The parents and BL's refusal to return GP's parents calls and texts is evidence of consciousness of guilt, imo. There is no excuse for it. jmo

I agree but I wonder, then, when was the first time they contacted SB with regard to this case? If they called him right after BL arrived home sans Gabby, but in her van, he may have advised them at that time not to say anything to anyone or, if BL had called them while he was on the road home, they might have called SB then. SB is tight-lipped about when he was contacted about this case, to protect them with "plausible denial", I think. jmo

 

[CarolynAB2]

I would scratch him too if he had locked me out of my van and tried to take my phone. Those police ignored the report of a man slapping a woman on the sidewalk in their report, and wrongly concluded that she was the aggressor. That is why they are being investigated IMO.

I have so much sympathy for GP and her family and what happened to her was terrible beyond belief, but honestly, no one should be hitting, slapping, scratching, pushing, punching, etc. anyone else. This couple needed some counseling to learn how to effectively and constructively communicate and manage their conflict. Conflict in relationships is normal, but it is not always handled in healthy, respectful ways.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Another narrative:

BL and GP arrive at the Spread Creek camp site. She works on her project and he hikes off on his own, taking the debit card with her permission to use if he needed anything, a ride back, food, supplies, etc. Since she is camping near the van, she has everything she needs, supplies, food, her phone, etc.

BL hitchhikes back to GP, getting two rides.

BL finds GP dead and is afraid he'll be charged so he takes the van and goes home to get help from a lawyer.

Does it really matter what the people thought of him when they gave him rides? They can say, "he didn't smell as if he'd been hiking for two days," but how else did he get up to Colter Bay? Probably hiked. So, maybe he's not a smelly guy, or he cleaned up.

Oh, he only had a tarp in a backpack. Weird, but people can be weird. They guy hikes around barefoot apparently. I think that's weird too. So what?

Yes, he used the bank card. Probably for food and gas to get home.

Yes, it wasn't his account. Lots of people in relationships let their SO use their debit card. It sounds as if they were sharing the one bank account. People can do that. My understanding is that it's not a crime to use someone's bank card unless they report it as fraud. If he says knew she was dead, but he didn't kill her, and he drove home using the "shared" bank account, he may still be convicted of wrongly using it, but using the bank card doesn't prove that he killed her.

I hope they have some rock solid evidence, but the remains were out there for 3-4 weeks, and that, I believe, is an estimate. The defense may be able to argue that she could have been out there for 4-5 weeks and BL was home by then.

The defense may want to do another autopsy but they are unable to because the remains were cremated.

I'm sure there are lots of ways to pick apart a circumstantial case.

^^ ALL of this!

If I was on the jury, and with the evidence presented thus far, I would have a very difficult time finding him guilty of murder beyond any reasonable doubt.

We have to hope there's a LOT of evidence that hasn't been revealed to us and is being kept under wraps by LE, because as it stands, I feel the prosecution are going to have an uphill battle pinning anything on BL other than the unauthorised use of a bank card.

<modsnip>

MOO