Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #67

[passionflower]

Coyotes got ahold of my brother. They even chewed his shoes off.

I’m so sorry

 

[SMK777]

Have you not seen the slowed down vid of the door closing? It is very obvious.

There was a YouTube true crime creator who laughed off the idea of the van door closing, but became a believer once he saw that footage.

 

[passionflower]

Coyotes got ahold of my brother. They even chewed his shoes off.

I’m so sorry

 

[Barbie619]

New Yorker describes experience of BL look-alike:
“...Next thing I see is a bunch of guys with riot shields with ‘U.S. Marshals’ written on them,” Beckwith said. “Handguns pointed at my face.”
Bounty Hunting for Brian Laundrie in a Land of Look-Alikes

This exactly what I said yesterday about BL and U.S. Marshall's being nowhere and everywhere when they are hunting a fugitive.

If BL is alive and watching the search, he has probably been laughing at LE looking in the Reserve. But in reality he should be more worried about the U.S. Marshall's grabbing him up. He's really not safe in society, so is he really still alive? IMO

 

[cady]

I don't know the FL case, but the OJ case did in fact turn around a single action by. the defendant (the glove). In this case, I think that the defense will definitely have to construct a narrative based on BL doing something different than what he is absolutely known to have done. They can throw spaghetti on the wall, but it won't stick. IMO. Also, the choice of court venue and jury selection helped - Los Angeles is a very populated place, with a lot of diversity in attitudes, so the police malfeasance defense struck a huge chord with many jurors.

I do not think that's going to happen in Wyoming.

Whereas, if BL has anything he can say that will substantiate any form of alibi, he is going to need to do that. Sure, putting the people who picked him up on the stand can be done - but I do believe all three of them will say they didn't believe him at the time, he was acting strangely and impulsively, etc.

I am aware that juries sometimes find reasonable doubt without the defendant being on the stand - but it's rare. We don't even know where this is going to be tried (my understanding right now is that it is likely to be in a state court in Wyoming, in any case with a Wyoming jury). He's going to need a lot to get to reasonable doubt, IMO. An awful lot. What we already know and what can clearly be shown will need a great deal to give even one juror "reasonable doubt."

Of course, I believe that there's more camera footage available. BL leaves the campsite (they arrive on August 27) and walks for two days, during which he goes to the ATM, perhaps maxxing out the cash limit on two days. Wow. That looks really bad for him. And he's charged with a crime for doing it. Then he goes back to the campsite and takes off (with the autopsy indicating it's very possible she was killed before that), doesn't seem to look for her, doesn't raise an alarm about her being missing, takes all her stuff...runs away and becomes a fugitive.

I wouldn't be surprised if phone records show the two phones together - for a while, including when the supposed texts from Gabby to Mom occur past the 27th. He may even have called his parents a few times. While they may not be called to the stand in Florida, this trial won't happen in Florida. If Mom and Dad both take the 5th, I think that's the final nail in the coffin for most reasonable jurors.

I believe the circumstantial evidence and the forensic evidence from Gabby's body will be plenty strong enough - along with the evidence of mens rea.

I agree with most of your reasoning almost all the time! But does anyone have any idea where they were and stayed after they checked out in SLC and before they wound up at Spread Creek? Could they have been at SP CR earlier than the 27th? jmo

 

[jamicat]

No, 9/13 is a Monday and the most recent reported day the parents say BL left. They reported him leaving with a hiking pack with waist strap. And they claim they searched for him that same day.

The parents through SB reported that Monday 9/13 was last day they saw BL. Didn’t say when on that Monday. Sorry, I confused the days too. They went in Tuesday to look for him MOO, he left either late Monday or early Tuesday and his parents did not see him leave as they could not describe what he was wearing. Just that his hiking pack was missing, walket and phone left.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Aggressive men in these situations will be very well mannered. If you watch the second video where the officer is on Brian's side of the van you will see a flash of who Brian really is. The officer asks him what happened and Brian snaps back at the officer. Then he hears Gabby taking the blame and calms down.

I've just watched it again but I cannot see the moment you're referring to. I see no change in his demeanour. Maybe I'm watching the wrong part. If you wouldn't mind would you be able to provide a timestamp for me please.

 

[Which_pancake]

Did Bethunes say they saw the door shutting? If so, ok. Otherwise, I think that's a matter of perspective. Although, it doesn't really matter. Gabby could have already been strangled by 6:30. jmo

I thought the Bethunes said they wanted to stop and talk to fellow Florida travelers, but didn't because they thought the van looked abandoned...I could be misremembering though. JMO

Edit - I found the article I was thinking of

We came across a white van that had Florida plates,” Jenn Bethune said. “A small white van. We were going to stop and say hi because we’re from Florida too, but the van was completely dark. There was nobody there, so we decided to continue on our way.”

The couple, who are documenting their family’s travels across the country, said the van seemed “abandoned.”

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.o...doned-van-spotted-near-grand-teton-on-aug-27/

 

[jamicat]

No, 9/13 is a Monday and the most recent reported day the parents say BL left. They reported him leaving with a hiking pack with waist strap. And they claim they searched for him that same day.

The parents through SB reported that Monday 9/13 was last day they saw BL. Didn’t say when on that Monday. Sorry, I confused the days too. They went in Tuesday to look for him MOO, he left either late Monday or early Tuesday and his parents did not see him leave as they could not describe what he was wearing. Just that his hiking pack was missing, walket and phone left.

I thought the Bethunes said they wanted to stop and talk to fellow Florida travelers, but didn't because they thought the van looked abandoned...I could be misremembering though. JMO

 

[TL4S]

I agree with most of your reasoning almost all the time! But does anyone have any idea where they were and stayed after they checked out in SLC and before they wound up at Spread Creek? Could they have been at SP CR earlier than the 27th? jmo

This is what I've been wondering all along. We have a supposed Jenny Lake sighting on the 25th, but I don't know where they spent that night. Then we have the supposed sighting in SC on the 26th. Were they camped there that whole time?

 

[SMK777]

Coyotes got ahold of my brother. They even chewed his shoes off.

How horrible. I’m so sorry to hear this.

 

[LAhiker]

If from Spread Creek, it looks like 46 miles. I have always found this MP visit strange, now especially strange if they were walking. MOO.

I must've missed something. Why would we think they were walking? Is that because the van may have been in the same location at Spread Creek both before and after? Perhaps there was some confusion about when the van was there. (I guess they could've hitched to Jackson & MP, but why hitch if you have a van??)

Or maybe they parked the van there, then drove to MP, and drove back. I remember that by the time the Bethunes were there, the campground was full. But if they indeed were there both before and after the MP trip, BL & GP may have been able to get the same spot twice precisely because it wasn't an official spot.

Without reopening that whole discussion, maybe they did put up the tent across the creek. (I realize that GP's stepfather did not say the tent was there, just that there was a good place for one). If the tent was up before the trip to MP, though, they might not have been 100% sure they'd get the same spot when they got back. And we don't know if they slept in the tent or the van during the days at Spread Creek.

Relevant questions -- I hope LE has the answers, even if we don't:

• Is it certain the van was parked in the same spot before and after the MP trip?
• If so, did it look like the van had gone anywhere and returned? Were there multiple tire tracks in and out, beyond what would be needed for parking? Was the van in the exact same orientation?
• Was there evidence that they did have the tent up across the creek? Would the tent have been visible from other campsites?

JMO

 

[CarolynAB2]

I don't know the FL case, but the OJ case did in fact turn around a single action by. the defendant (the glove). In this case, I think that the defense will definitely have to construct a narrative based on BL doing something different than what he is absolutely known to have done. They can throw spaghetti on the wall, but it won't stick. IMO. Also, the choice of court venue and jury selection helped - Los Angeles is a very populated place, with a lot of diversity in attitudes, so the police malfeasance defense struck a huge chord with many jurors.

I do not think that's going to happen in Wyoming.

Whereas, if BL has anything he can say that will substantiate any form of alibi, he is going to need to do that. Sure, putting the people who picked him up on the stand can be done - but I do believe all three of them will say they didn't believe him at the time, he was acting strangely and impulsively, etc.

I am aware that juries sometimes find reasonable doubt without the defendant being on the stand - but it's rare. We don't even know where this is going to be tried (my understanding right now is that it is likely to be in a state court in Wyoming, in any case with a Wyoming jury). He's going to need a lot to get to reasonable doubt, IMO. An awful lot. What we already know and what can clearly be shown will need a great deal to give even one juror "reasonable doubt."

Of course, I believe that there's more camera footage available. BL leaves the campsite (they arrive on August 27) and walks for two days, during which he goes to the ATM, perhaps maxxing out the cash limit on two days. Wow. That looks really bad for him. And he's charged with a crime for doing it. Then he goes back to the campsite and takes off (with the autopsy indicating it's very possible she was killed before that), doesn't seem to look for her, doesn't raise an alarm about her being missing, takes all her stuff...runs away and becomes a fugitive.

I wouldn't be surprised if phone records show the two phones together - for a while, including when the supposed texts from Gabby to Mom occur past the 27th. He may even have called his parents a few times. While they may not be called to the stand in Florida, this trial won't happen in Florida. If Mom and Dad both take the 5th, I think that's the final nail in the coffin for most reasonable jurors.

I believe the circumstantial evidence and the forensic evidence from Gabby's body will be plenty strong enough - along with the evidence of mens rea.

Another narrative:

BL and GP arrive at the Spread Creek camp site. She works on her project and he hikes off on his own, taking the debit card with her permission to use if he needed anything, a ride back, food, supplies, etc. Since she is camping near the van, she has everything she needs, supplies, food, her phone, etc.

BL hitchhikes back to GP, getting two rides.

BL finds GP dead and is afraid he'll be charged so he takes the van and goes home to get help from a lawyer.

Does it really matter what the people thought of him when they gave him rides? They can say, "he didn't smell as if he'd been hiking for two days," but how else did he get up to Colter Bay? Probably hiked. So, maybe he's not a smelly guy, or he cleaned up.

Oh, he only had a tarp in a backpack. Weird, but people can be weird. They guy hikes around barefoot apparently. I think that's weird too. So what?

Yes, he used the bank card. Probably for food and gas to get home.

Yes, it wasn't his account. Lots of people in relationships let their SO use their debit card. It sounds as if they were sharing the one bank account. People can do that. My understanding is that it's not a crime to use someone's bank card unless they report it as fraud. If he says knew she was dead, but he didn't kill her, and he drove home using the "shared" bank account, he may still be convicted of wrongly using it, but using the bank card doesn't prove that he killed her.

I hope they have some rock solid evidence, but the remains were out there for 3-4 weeks, and that, I believe, is an estimate. The defense may be able to argue that she could have been out there for 4-5 weeks and BL was home by then.

The defense may want to do another autopsy but they are unable to because the remains were cremated.

I'm sure there are lots of ways to pick apart a circumstantial case.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Yes.

Thanks for sharing the video so I could watch it.

I've watched the section where the LEO approaches the van and Brian is sat in the drivers seat and I genuinely can't see him snap at the officer at all.

Maybe I'm not watching the correct bit?

JMO

 

[jamicat]

I thought the Bethunes said they wanted to stop and talk to fellow Florida travelers, but didn't because they thought the van looked abandoned...I could be misremembering though. JMO

They saw the van door slightly ajar and then shut, not when they drove by but when they checked out there footage later and enhanced, zoomed in and slowed it down. It’s pretty clear

 

[indycindy]

well I’m in good company then cause I’ve not found where Gabby slept that night. I know she had the van but where did she park the van? Part of me thinks she might have went back to the hotel to talk to him during the night. When and how did they meet back up the next day?

I would like to know that too!

 

[JayWill]

I've just watched it again but I cannot see the moment you're referring to. I see no change in his demeanour. Maybe I'm watching the wrong part. If you wouldn't mind would you be able to provide a timestamp for me please.

It is in the second body cam that they held back for a month and then released it. When presented with the info that a 911 call reported that a male who drove off in the van was seen slapping a female on the sidewalk, he snapped that he did not have time to be defending himself about that.

 

[10ofRods]

Interesting. Like dry drowning that occurs hours after a drowning incident.

And like dry drowning, this would have left forensic evidence (particularly in the degree of cartilage damage near the hyoid bone). I seriously doubt that anyone who has both cartilage torn and a broken hyoid is going to wake up after a period of unconsciousness, make a casual text to their mom and take off their boots. At all.

If you can find a single post-strangulation death where the subject fully regained consciousness and the ability to speak, please let us know, as I cannot.

They will not be able to speak. They'll notice that. They will do their best to get themselves to help - which is simple by moving to the road and flagging down the first car. Walking in the direction of the actual campground.

Gabby did not have the luxury of being next to an ER to be examined. And we do not have the luxury of knowing the exact mechanism of death because the coroner declined to tell us. We do not know the hyoid was broken and we do not know the trachea was ruptured.

All we know is there was some kind of evidence of injury to the neck structures that would lead to a conclusion of manual strangulation. We don't know what that injury was. Fracture of the thyroid cartilage? Survivable. Bleeding into the deep soft tissue of the neck? Survivable. Over a period of hours, in the absence of medical examination and treatment, it is entirely possible that slow accumulation of edema or hematoma in the epiglottic region could lead to the death of an unassisted person. It is not, IMO, impossible that Gabby was injured but still alive when BL left.

When Dr Blue mentioned the opposable thumbs, to me as an anthropologist, he might as well have run a flag up saying "hyoid bone is broken," because that's how it is broken - with pressure from the thumbs.

No one uses just their thumbs to compress the artery. It doesn't work. Person uses fingers for that.

But the hyoid bone is also the reason why they called it homicide immediately. I suppose next someone will suggest that Gabby fell on a rock and broke her own hyoid bone, whereupon BL left...for what reason exactly? Why'd he leave her there?

 

[acutename]

I think the restaurant incident is very important. It's the last known place Gabby was seen alive. Later on the same day is when the B,W&Bethune campers passed the van and it appeared that no one was at the van.

Each time there was a sighting, BL was always alone. IMO Gabby died on the 27th and the next two days BL was hiking and hitchhiked until he returned to the van and left for good, leaving his dead girlfriend behind. jmo

not to be too graphic but if the MP meal was still in GP's system, that could point to when she was killed... close off some of the 3-4 weeks, IMO

 

[sarahboirin]

Thanks for sharing the video so I could watch it.

I've watched the section where the LEO approaches the van and Brian is sat in the drivers seat and I genuinely can't see him snap at the officer at all.

Maybe I'm not watching the correct bit?

JMO

Me neither - he seems to be talking to the LEO on the other side of the van?