Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #67

[simplemind]

The Laundries were not being watched on Tuesday Sept 13. But Mustang reported missing by Brian Entin that day in the evening. Laundrues likely MOO woke up and found BL gone, maybe a note or text from him saying he went to Reserve or they knew it was a favorite spot for him, so they went there, saw Mustang there and looked for him. Left Mustang there with note to BL. Returned the next day, found notice to remove Mustang, so they did. Looked again for him. After thinking about it Thurs, and discussing with SB, they reported him Missing Friday.
Brian Entin is able to corroborate the Mustang gone on Tuesday evening, back Wednesday

No, 9/13 is a Monday and the most recent reported day the parents say BL left. They reported him leaving with a hiking pack with waist strap. And they claim they searched for him that same day.

 

[Mom24]

This is unpopular, but the only way I can make sense of BL's behavior and hitchhikking and whatnot is that Gabby briefly survived the strangulation. There may have been an argument, he choked her, but she initially survived. He takes off for a couple days with no real plan, but Gabby was not dead when he left. But she was dead when he came back.

There are documented cases where a person survived the acute strangulation, but died hours afterward from delayed complications. Here's an example.

Unexpected delayed death after manual strangulation: need for careful examination in the emergency room - PubMed

As always, mere speculation.

That article is in regards to someone coming into an ER after being strangled. In those instances the situation is different. For example, after being strangled a person can form a blood clot and die days later, but the hyoid bone wouldn't be broken and the trachea wouldn't be ruptured because that kind of situation leads to death, not survival.
A person being examined in an ER is a different scenario than a body being examined after death. So this article is reminding medical personnel to check for possible further issues, but if someone had died from manual strangulation there are more injuries present.
It's most likely when they did the autopsy there would have been injuries present that would have indicated death happened at the time of strangulation.

 

[10ofRods]

He doesn't have to get on the stand or say a word for the defense to convince a jury that there is reasonable doubt.

There are plenty of cases where the defendant didn't take the stand and were found not guilty.

Two very famous examples:

• California v. OJS
• Florida v. CMA

I don't know the FL case, but the OJ case did in fact turn around a single action by. the defendant (the glove). In this case, I think that the defense will definitely have to construct a narrative based on BL doing something different than what he is absolutely known to have done. They can throw spaghetti on the wall, but it won't stick. IMO. Also, the choice of court venue and jury selection helped - Los Angeles is a very populated place, with a lot of diversity in attitudes, so the police malfeasance defense struck a huge chord with many jurors.

I do not think that's going to happen in Wyoming.

Whereas, if BL has anything he can say that will substantiate any form of alibi, he is going to need to do that. Sure, putting the people who picked him up on the stand can be done - but I do believe all three of them will say they didn't believe him at the time, he was acting strangely and impulsively, etc.

I am aware that juries sometimes find reasonable doubt without the defendant being on the stand - but it's rare. We don't even know where this is going to be tried (my understanding right now is that it is likely to be in a state court in Wyoming, in any case with a Wyoming jury). He's going to need a lot to get to reasonable doubt, IMO. An awful lot. What we already know and what can clearly be shown will need a great deal to give even one juror "reasonable doubt."

Of course, I believe that there's more camera footage available. BL leaves the campsite (they arrive on August 27) and walks for two days, during which he goes to the ATM, perhaps maxxing out the cash limit on two days. Wow. That looks really bad for him. And he's charged with a crime for doing it. Then he goes back to the campsite and takes off (with the autopsy indicating it's very possible she was killed before that), doesn't seem to look for her, doesn't raise an alarm about her being missing, takes all her stuff...runs away and becomes a fugitive.

I wouldn't be surprised if phone records show the two phones together - for a while, including when the supposed texts from Gabby to Mom occur past the 27th. He may even have called his parents a few times. While they may not be called to the stand in Florida, this trial won't happen in Florida. If Mom and Dad both take the 5th, I think that's the final nail in the coffin for most reasonable jurors.

I believe the circumstantial evidence and the forensic evidence from Gabby's body will be plenty strong enough - along with the evidence of mens rea.

 

[Mom24]

We will have to agree to differ on this one then.

From the footage I saw, both Gabby and Brian came across as well mannered, cooperative and polite.

MOO

Aggressive men in these situations will be very well mannered. If you watch the second video where the officer is on Brian's side of the van you will see a flash of who Brian really is. The officer asks him what happened and Brian snaps back at the officer. Then he hears Gabby taking the blame and calms down.

 

[simplemind]

The Laundries were not being watched on Tuesday Sept 13. But Mustang reported missing by Brian Entin that day in the evening. Laundrues likely MOO woke up and found BL gone, maybe a note or text from him saying he went to Reserve or they knew it was a favorite spot for him, so they went there, saw Mustang there and looked for him. Left Mustang there with note to BL. Returned the next day, found notice to remove Mustang, so they did. Looked again for him. After thinking about it Thurs, and discussing with SB, they reported him Missing Friday.
Brian Entin is able to corroborate the Mustang gone on Tuesday evening, back Wednesday

Also, we don't know they weren't being watched to some extent. But are you saying BL left the 12th and the parents didn't realize until the 13th?

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Aggressive men in these situations will be very well mannered. If you watch the second video where the officer is on Brian's side of the van you will see a flash of who Brian really is. The officer asks him what happened and Brian snaps back at the officer. Then he hears Gabby taking the blame and calms down.

Do you have a link to this so I can watch it, please? TIA

 

[PommyMommy]

J.B. Biunno on Twitter
I’ll be on @Discord Sunday morning 11AM ET for an #AMA chat with the amazing r/GabbyPetito community fighting for #JusticeForGabby. Big thanks to the mods & community for the overwhelmingly warm invite to do this. We’ll have a wide-ranging convo on #GabbyPetito & #BrianLaundrie.
3:43 PM · Oct 16, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

 

[cady]

Bethune video shows back van door shutting. Someone was there

Did Bethunes say they saw the door shutting? If so, ok. Otherwise, I think that's a matter of perspective. Although, it doesn't really matter. Gabby could have already been strangled by 6:30. jmo

 

[bluwaters]

The idea of sleeping alone in a van in a national park would terrify me. I almost wonder if she went to a hotel herself. Although BL told LE that money was tight, it wasn't tight enough to prevent her from spending a week in a hotel in SLC.

Yes, and now we know that she had at least $1,000 in her account because BL stole that amount after GP's death.

 

[JayWill]

Did Bethunes say they saw the door shutting? If so, ok. Otherwise, I think that's a matter of perspective. Although, it doesn't really matter. Gabby could have already been strangled by 6:30. jmo

Have you not seen the slowed down vid of the door closing? It is very obvious.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>
Yes. I agree. I really believe this: some people are very uncomfortable seeing emotional women cry. Those moments in time tend to be written off as a mental health issue. I see her as a highly sensitive person. I say this shining positive light. She seemed fully aware of her senses. All of them. She used her voice to share nature. I say these kind of dreamers have eyes with vision. I’ve been thinking of a favorite quote ever since I saw the Moab video.


“I used to dislike being sensitive. I thought it made me weak. But take away that single trait, and you take away the very essence of who I am. You take away my conscience, my ability to empathize, my intuition, my creativity, my deep appreciation of the little things, my vivid inner life, my keen awareness to others pain and my passion for it all.

-Caitlin Japa

 

[SMK777]

This is unpopular, but the only way I can make sense of BL's behavior and hitchhikking and whatnot is that Gabby briefly survived the strangulation. There may have been an argument, he choked her, but she initially survived. He takes off for a couple days with no real plan, but Gabby was not dead when he left. But she was dead when he came back.

There are documented cases where a person survived the acute strangulation, but died hours afterward from delayed complications. Here's an example.

Unexpected delayed death after manual strangulation: need for careful examination in the emergency room - PubMed

As always, mere speculation.

Interesting. Like dry drowning that occurs hours after a drowning incident.

 

[Mom24]

Do you have a link to this so I can watch it, please? TIA

Yes.

 

[Which_pancake]

I like hearing expert opinions This lady is a good expert in this field I believe.

Dr. Ann Wolbert Burgess, who pioneered the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit,
is a doctorally-prepared, board-certified psychiatric clinical nurse specialist.

Ann Burgess author of the forthcoming book "A Killer by Design: Murders, Mindhunters, and My Quest to Decipher the Criminal."

She pioneered assessing and treating trauma in rape victims. She co-founded one of the first hospital-based crisis counseling programs at Boston City Hospital with Boston College sociologist, Lynda Lytle Holmstrom.

She later consulted John E. Douglas, Robert Ressler, and other FBI agents in the Behavioral Science Unit to develop modern psychological profiling for serial killers.[2][3] She has provided expert testimony on sexual assault cases.[4]

Oh I'm not disputing at all that she's an expert and that her input would be valuable in general. That's why I said it would be different if she were analyzing surveillance footage of the incident or something like that that is first hand. (Analysis of the Moab tape would be valuable too). But here she is analyzing the report of a third party about what happened, and that third party account is necessarily colored by that witnesses opinions and ideas. I feel like it's not valid for someone to analyze the behaviors of another solely through a third party account. MOO

 

[SMK777]

The fugitive that was arrested yesterday, Ethan Waters……was he inside the reserve or near it? I’m wondering if LE was seeing him on deer cams, and thinking it was BL??

I think it’s very likely. He looked so similar to BL. A reporter said he was in the reserve, and that they used infrared to sense his movement. Maybe that’s what all the intensive searches were about? They seem to be over now.

 

[acutename]

I'm thinking about the fact that BL made enough of a ruckus in at least two separate towns for people to actually remember him -- a "pick a six pack of people" average-looking guy, who would never have stood out otherwise. He must have been absolutely full of rage to have had two incidents like that -- that we know about! there could be more we haven't heard of! -- in such a short period of time.

I promise that I can go about my business for months on end, even when traveling, even in foreign countries, without anybody remembering anything in particular about me. It's just remarkable that he had those two incidents within two weeks, especially when he was in FL for about a week in between. Remarkable.

I wish we had an inkling what he was upset about- an over charge, something cooked wrong, etc. usually if there is a problem like that, you complain and they either make it right or explain one of their policies and you accept it or you decide not to go back. sounds bizarre to return several times.

 

[CharlestonGal]

That article is in regards to someone coming into an ER after being strangled. In those instances the situation is different. For example, after being strangled a person can form a blood clot and die days later, but the hyoid bone wouldn't be broken and the trachea wouldn't be ruptured because that kind of situation leads to death, not survival.
A person being examined in an ER is a different scenario than a body being examined after death. So this article is reminding medical personnel to check for possible further issues, but if someone had died from manual strangulation there are more injuries present.
It's most likely when they did the autopsy there would have been injuries present that would have indicated death happened at the time of strangulation.

Gabby did not have the luxury of being next to an ER to be examined. And we do not have the luxury of knowing the exact mechanism of death because the coroner declined to tell us. We do not know the hyoid was broken and we do not know the trachea was ruptured.

All we know is there was some kind of evidence of injury to the neck structures that would lead to a conclusion of manual strangulation. We don't know what that injury was. Fracture of the thyroid cartilage? Survivable. Bleeding into the deep soft tissue of the neck? Survivable. Over a period of hours, in the absence of medical examination and treatment, it is entirely possible that slow accumulation of edema or hematoma in the epiglottic region could lead to the death of an unassisted person. It is not, IMO, impossible that Gabby was injured but still alive when BL left.

 

[Which_pancake]

So the USMarshalls are actively looking for him? On the AT?

Wow apparently so!

 

[ce4au]

This is unpopular, but the only way I can make sense of BL's behavior and hitchhikking and whatnot is that Gabby briefly survived the strangulation. There may have been an argument, he choked her, but she initially survived. He takes off for a couple days with no real plan, but Gabby was not dead when he left. But she was dead when he came back.

There are documented cases where a person survived the acute strangulation, but died hours afterward from delayed complications. Here's an example.

Unexpected delayed death after manual strangulation: need for careful examination in the emergency room - PubMed

As always, mere speculation.

That’s a very interesting theory! I didn’t realize that could happen with anything other than like secondary drowning. Very interesting… hmmmm.

 

[kittythehare]

I’m sooo glad you brought this up because I woke up at 4:00 this morning with this exact thing on my mind.

MOO
IMO

It would be easy for someone like Brian to be absorbed by an “Intentional Community “ (used to be called hippie communes in the 70s).

These communities, based on my research, tend to be very accepting and open to most everyone and don’t tend to ask questions. A young man, such as Brian, could walk up with nothing but the clothes in his back and he would be given a place to sleep and food to eat, in exchange for a little sweat equity.

These communities may be off grid in rural areas, such as one in Lafayette, TN with just a few trips to town to pick up essentials. It would be easy for someone to keep their head down and avoid going into public until things on the “outside” calmed down or you’ve grown your hair out, gained weight, etc.

I think Brian could easily adapt to this type of living. He would essentially be camping with the safety and support of a community “hidden” community, while still having the opportunity to catch a ride to town to pick up a package from the post office and maybe even someone who could sign for a money wire in the event that someone decided to wire him money.

There are many of these communities all over the states, but I’ve only really looked into the one in Lafayette, TN because of YouTube. The community is called The Garden and you can search YouTube for “The Garden commune”. I’m not trying to imply that he may be there, but there are a lot of videos about this one in particular because Youtubers were making videos on when they visited. It became a destination for some Youtubers for the sole purpose of making videos.

FWIW Most of the videos I watched stated that the Youtubers were welcomed and treated very nicely by the residents of the community.

I’m just saying, if I was a young, strong man in my early twenties and I needed somewhere to go, I would definitely look into an intentional community to disappear into.
MOO

Also makes sense because
-he drove 36 hrs home
-he may well have had prior contacts from alternative communities
-he knows the streets along here and he probably had enough cash to pay any entrance fee that was required..
We know from Moab that he can handle himself when he likes.