ZFG Civil Case: Casey's Deposition #2

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logicalgirl said:
I believe we have seen a few instances of Richard Grund mixing up his timelines. As we have seen in a number of statements made to the LE regarding witnesses who were supporting FCA, making an LE statement does not make it fact.

So what you are saying is that the oversight by M&M is not overshadowed by FCA or her lawyers (who were constantly in the media) making a very clear statement that Zenaida Gonzales is NOT FCA'S Nanny - that she is an innocent person. And it also overshadows FCA lying to CA by saying she was not shown any pictures of the "Nanny".

Not in my house it doesn't.
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:seeya:I sort of tend to agree. For the longest time I think a lot of us just took for granted Zanny and this whoever ZFG was, were one and the same person, but obviously, that was never the case. Obvious 1 is imaginanny and the other; well, someone took great amount of time to pick on from whatever resources they used. I'd also have to go back into past notes because what LA had supposedly stated; that OCA told him she stalked out Sawgrass-jmo, but how do we really know if OCA actually told this to LA? We don't. There were a bunch of those group meetings with JG and the rest of the group of friends who were trying to help solve this mystery and we all know by now how words get twisted a la A speak.
 
KarmaGet'em said:
First of all, thank you wenwe4 for capturing so much of the hearing.

Regarding the bolded part, when LA was on the stand he mentioned that Casey told him that she "staked out at Sawgrass" looking for ZFG.

http://westorlandonews.com/2011/06/01/caseys-brother-lee-anthony-takes-the-stand/

"Lee confirmed that Casey told him she had last seen Caylee at the Sawgrass apartments and that she had not seen her in 31 days. Casey also told him that she had been doing her own search for the child, had staked out the Sawgrass apartments and had gone to places where she thought Caylee might be."

Is this enough to "prove" that she was at Sawgrass, or is it not usable due to hearsay? (I don't know if civil trials have the same hearsay rules). Mitnik wants to be able to ask KC but she is hiding behind the 5th. Even if she did testify, would she tell the truth?
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bbm
A Good question to ask AZ.
 
KarmaGet'em said:
First of all, thank you wenwe4 for capturing so much of the hearing.

Regarding the bolded part, when LA was on the stand he mentioned that Casey told him that she "staked out at Sawgrass" looking for ZFG.

http://westorlandonews.com/2011/06/01/caseys-brother-lee-anthony-takes-the-stand/


Is this enough to "prove" that she was at Sawgrass, or is it not usable due to hearsay? (I don't know if civil trials have the same hearsay rules). Mitnik wants to be able to ask KC but she is hiding behind the 5th. Even if she did testify, would she tell the truth?
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It would be usable, but proving she was at Sawgrass (by using one of her lies against her) doesn't help much. She admitted being at Sawgrass on tape numerous times--that's where she "left Caylee with ZFG," remember?

Personally, I think it's pretty clear she didn't actually see ZG in person at Sawgrass on June 16: her cell phone pings aren't near there for that day, she didn't describe ZG's car, and she didn't correctly describe any physical aspect of ZG at all.
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
Richard Grund, in a police interview, states that Casey had talked about a nanny named Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales, long, long before Caylee's demise. If, he was telling the truth, then it is impossible that Casey was talking about the Zenaida Gonzales who filed the complaint against Casey. Granted, Casey was lying even back then, however, her description of the fake nanny never came anywhere close to the description of Zenaida Gonzales.
Both Greene and M&M presented the jailhouse tape and LE showing Casey a photo of this Zenaida Gonzales. M&M is using both pieces of evidence as proof in his defamation case, while Greene is using both pieces to show Casey exonerated this Zenaida Gonzales. Which is legally correct? That will be for Judge Munyon to decide.
It is a fact that in the original complaint that the name Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales was used 23 times. M&M claims it was an oversight, while Greene claims the use was disingenuous, and was attempting to portray Zenaida as the person in Casey's imagination. The amended complaint corrected the "oversight," however, Zenaida also made 8 television interviews where she portrayed herself as Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales. Again, what is legally correct in this situation will be up to Judge Munyon to decide.
We should know the judge's decision in less than 60 days. Personally, I think Munyon is going to grant Greene's motion for summary judgment and deny M&M's motion for partial summary judgment. As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
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Apparently FCA's description of ZFG was close enough to Ms. Gonzales that they actually interviewed her. I think if LE could make the connection, so could the public. We will see FCA in court again soon, much to the dismay of some.
 
AZlawyer said:
It would be usable, but proving she was at Sawgrass (by using one of her lies against her) doesn't help much. She admitted being at Sawgrass on tape numerous times--that's where she "left Caylee with ZFG," remember?

Personally, I think it's pretty clear she didn't actually see ZG in person at Sawgrass on June 16: her cell phone pings aren't near there for that day, she didn't describe ZG's car, and she didn't correctly describe any physical aspect of ZG at all.
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But but but - everyone seems to be missing one (BIG) point - while M&M's ZG was the original model for the Nanny - of course FCA didn't describe her as she really is in life. She would have known the LE could find her and when they did and ZG said I have no idea what you are talking about - I have never met FCA - FCA would have been hooped.

But we do know that all of FCA's lies start from a threshold of truth - don't we? I think we do.
 
logicalgirl said:
But but but - everyone seems to be missing one (BIG) point - while M&M's ZG was the original model for the Nanny - of course FCA didn't describe her as she really is in life. She would have known the LE could find her and when they did and ZG said I have no idea what you are talking about - I have never met FCA - FCA would have been hooped.

But we do know that all of FCA's lies start from a threshold of truth - don't we? I think we do.
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That was actually my point. :) She wasn't trying at the time to describe an actual person; she just needed kernels of fact around which to build her fantasies.
 
AZlawyer said:
That was actually my point. :) She wasn't trying at the time to describe an actual person; she just needed kernels of fact around which to build her fantasies.
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LOL - of course! Thanks AZ - I am completely stymied by posters saying ZG has no case because she is not who FCA described when the LE found ZG.

Well duh - nothing FCA says is the truth, so how is it possible to take her word over anyone at all? It continually amazes me that we discuss anything about ZG and then say well that's not what FCA said...:banghead:
 
AZlawyer said:
It would be usable, but proving she was at Sawgrass (by using one of her lies against her) doesn't help much. She admitted being at Sawgrass on tape numerous times--that's where she "left Caylee with ZFG," remember?

Personally, I think it's pretty clear she didn't actually see ZG in person at Sawgrass on June 16: her cell phone pings aren't near there for that day, she didn't describe ZG's car, and she didn't correctly describe any physical aspect of ZG at all.
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I think she intentionally made use of ZG, and the only reason her description does not match is because she never met ZG in person. Had she met ZG, her description would have been one "middle name off" of accurate, in order to raise a bit of doubt into the mix. She was hoping for a close match.

I do not think that bit of doubt means she didn't employ the real ZG as an instrument of her lying- which makes her guilty of this crime in my book. She could have selected a highly unusual name that had a very slim chance of maligning a real person. I'd like to know the statistical likelihood of selecting a location and name that match this close. Premeditated, callous, and also reeking of FCA lie formula- just add a middle name!

This reminds me of the celebrity "blind item" in gossip magazines where enough identifying details are provided about a celebrity in an embarrassing situation, but the author does not reveal their actual name. But we know.


Still furious about it all.
 
Has anyone that we might consider even a little bit credible ever come forward and claimed that KC mentioned the name Zenaida or Zenaida Gonzales (with or without the middle name as that doesn't really matter as pertains to my question) prior to Caylee being reported missing? Not Zanny or Nanny...but specifically "Zenaida." That's what I'm looking for. Did anyone state that KC ever dropped that name to them prior to June 2008?
 
krkrjx said:
Has anyone that we might consider even a little bit credible ever come forward and claimed that KC mentioned the name Zenaida or Zenaida Gonzales (with or without the middle name as that doesn't really matter as pertains to my question) prior to Caylee being reported missing? Not Zanny or Nanny...but specifically "Zenaida." That's what I'm looking for. Did anyone state that KC ever dropped that name to them prior to June 2008?
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The only one that I think said Zenaida Gonzalez was Richard Grund but he also recounted the story and said OCA told him she found a sitter and her name is Zanny.

But, I don't know if he used the name Zenaida Gonzalez because the name was being widely reported on the news after Caylee was reported missing.
Everyone else, from my recollection, only said they heard of the name Zanny.
 
Intermezzo said:
The only one that I think said Zenaida Gonzalez was Richard Grund but he also recounted the story and said OCA told him she found a sitter and her name is Zanny.

But, I don't know if he used the name Zenaida Gonzalez because the name was being widely reported on the news after Caylee was reported missing.
Everyone else, from my recollection, only said they heard of the name Zanny.
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Yes, that confirms what my back search and my memory says. Thank you for adding that Intermezzo.

And again, I didn't think it strange or attention getting that ZG went to the media to deny she had anything to do with FCA or Caylee's disappearance. We have no way of knowing how much gossip or inneundo there was swirling around Zenaida or her children around that time. People can catch hold of an idea and be quite cruel with taunting even when there is no basis for truth in what they believe.

What other way is there to go up against a gossip machine than to go to the press and clarify what is true or not true. During that time a lot of people were talking to the press about the slightest thing. And then of course there was the defense team who were facing the cameras daily.
 
I can't believe I'm back in information-gathering mode. I found this exchange from the Amy H. 7-16-08 police interview quite telling:

A. I’ve honestly been wracking my brain and the only thing that I’ve even come up with and um Lee actually agreed that he don’t I don’t remember ever hearing the name Zany come up, I remember talking about a nanny but I don’t remember the name Zany coming up until about a month ago.
Q. Um huh (affirmative)
A. And Lee said he was pretty sure that he didn’t actually remember that name and I was like…there’s no way you gonna forget that Zany the nanny. And I’m pretty sure it was about three of four weeks ago that I I heard her say Zany a few times and I we just thinking she was saying nanny but it was like (whispers) it really sounds like she’s saying Zany but I guess she’s saying nanny. And finally I asked her and she was like no is the nanny’s name and I was like that’s funny I can go giggle every time I said it.
Q. Um huh (affirmative) (inaudible) Zany the nanny.
A. Exactly and I would have to say Zany the nanny.
Q. Sounds like something from the Muppets or (Over Talking )
A. Exactly I couldn’t just call her Zany I’ll have to call her Zany the nanny but regardless, like I don’t remember ever hearing that name come up until about a month ago.
 
logicalgirl said:
Yes, that confirms what my back search and my memory says. Thank you for adding that Intermezzo.

And again, I didn't think it strange or attention getting that ZG went to the media to deny she had anything to do with FCA or Caylee's disappearance. We have no way of knowing how much gossip or inneundo there was swirling around Zenaida or her children around that time. People can catch hold of an idea and be quite cruel with taunting even when there is no basis for truth in what they believe.

What other way is there to go up against a gossip machine than to go to the press and clarify what is true or not true. During that time a lot of people were talking to the press about the slightest thing. And then of course there was the defense team who were facing the cameras daily.
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Once local media found out that LE interviewed a Zenaida Gonzalez who had a connection to Sawgrass the hunt was on by the media to find her.
Louis Bolden said in his interview on the NG show that they were working very hard to find her and they did. He did not mention she came to them he said they found her.
I also remember that the name being reported over and over on the local news was Zenaida Gonzalez...
 
Any ideas about this?

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=1450829

OTHER EVENTS AND HEARINGS
03/27/2012 Motion
TO CARRY OVER OR CONTINUE TRIAL SUBPEONA
03/23/2012 Hearing (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer Munyon 43A, Lisa T)
Parties Present
Result: Reserved Ruling
03/23/2012 Objection
TO NOTICE OF PRODUCTION TO NON-PARTIES
03/23/2012 Subpoena Returned Unserved
03/23/2012 Subpoena Returned Served
Click to expand...
 
logicalgirl said:
Yes, that confirms what my back search and my memory says. Thank you for adding that Intermezzo.

And again, I didn't think it strange or attention getting that ZG went to the media to deny she had anything to do with FCA or Caylee's disappearance. We have no way of knowing how much gossip or inneundo there was swirling around Zenaida or her children around that time. People can catch hold of an idea and be quite cruel with taunting even when there is no basis for truth in what they believe.

What other way is there to go up against a gossip machine than to go to the press and clarify what is true or not true. During that time a lot of people were talking to the press about the slightest thing. And then of course there was the defense team who were facing the cameras daily.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree that people can run with something upon hearing it, even with no basis or evidence. Even after finding out what a major liar Casey Anthony is, there were people who believe some of the things she said. That may be because they really think something is a possibility or it may be because what was said is something so juicy that it makes the story even more interesting, twisted, or whatever, but I believe that more often than not it is the latter.

Just look at how many people jumped on the "Casey was molested by GA and LA" bandwagon just because KC claimed it (through her attorneys). And people actually thought Kronk had some involvement for crying out loud. I really do not think that most people believed any of it just because an attorney said it...I think they went with it because it was all so juicy, and with that it doesn't matter whether the claim is made by a known liar.

I can easily see people presuming that ZG had some involvement, just like they presumed it of Kronk or GA.
 
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