Zodiac Killer

[thefragile7393]

To play devil's advocate briefly, BTK really blended in and concealed his past. Other past criminals of varying types have held upstanding lives while on the run hiding. It's also not unusual for several people in the same family to have differing memories of someone (a la Joan Crawford and her children).

Buuuuuuuuut with all that said...really dosn't make Perez look good at all. The burden of proof is on her.

 

[morf13]

Perez's story is a DEADEND!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Heres a news conference held by Perez's stepssister( Guy Hendrickson's BLOOD daughter)

[URL="http://cbs13.com/video/?id=56117@kovr.dayport.com"]http://cbs13.com/video/?id=56117@kovr.dayport.com [/URL]

I attended the press conference by Janice Hendrickson and a couple of people connected to Dennis Kaufman's claim of his step-father being Zodiac. Besides two local TV cameramen and family members of the participants, I was the ONLY person in the audience. I filmed the entire conference - search "Zodijack Press Conference" at youtube for the six-part video. (Please forgive the crappy audio.)

Dennis Kaufman called the press conference, then wanted to postpone when Michael Jackson died and Kaufman bailed out when he realized that he probably would not get the coverage that he wanted. But what Kaufman didn't realize is that there was no news in the press conference - except that the fallout of the conference has lead to Nannette Barto (his handwriting "expert") and Steven Dewhurst being tossed out of Kaufmanland. The wheels are falling off of Kaufman's BS claims.

 

[morf13]

This evening marks the 40th Aniv of the Ferrin/Mageau Blue rock springs attack by Zodiac

 

[morf13]

ZOBSESSED,did you get the PM i sent you? Let me know

 

[morf13]

He's not a new suspect by any stretch of the imagination,he actually was one of the first.

Have you heard of this suspect? Or did you possibly know him from the Vallejo area? He has already been publicly named,so i will post his name here. I am not saying he was the Zodiac killer,but he's really interesting.
William Joseph Grant,or Bill Grant ? He was the man named "andy walker" in Greysmith's Zodiac book. Please read this report about him here,along with a photo/drawing? of him right above the report:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/Walker1.html

It says in the report,that this guy drove a White chevy at the time of the Zodiac attacks.I am hoping that this guy might ring a bell with some of the Vallejo area poeple on this forum. As many of you know,i have been pursuing the angle that the Lake Herman Rd attacks held some potentially big clues to the identity of Zodiac.Here is some addl info i posted:
In the police report,Grant was said to have a white chevy. How about this info regarding the Lake Herman Rd attack from the site,

http://www.se7en-x.com/zodiac/lakeherman.htm

9 p.m. - Sharon walked David and Betty Lou out to their car. They didn't say where they were going next.
At about the same time, out on Lake Herman Road, just east of the Vallejo City limits, two racoon hunters, who had just parked their truck off the road, noticed a white four-door hardtop '60 Chevrolet Impala parked by the entrance to the Benicia Water Pumping Station

10 p.m. - Bingo Wesher, a sheepherder at the Old Borges Ranch, was checking his sheep in the area east of the Benicia pumping station when he noticed a white Chevrolet Impala sedan parked by the entrance to the station. He also saw the racoon hunters' '59 Ford truck

And from the site, http://dcuaresma33.spaces.live.com/Blog ... !496.entry

Two raccon hunters spotted a late model Chevy parked outside the Benicia Water Pump House the same time,except there was no occupant(s) inside. A heavyset man with a military crewcrut with horned rimmed glasses ,wearing navy blue nylon jacket and dark clothing was spotted with a pistol on the Borges Ranch ,what appeared to be target shooting. A witness years later,told author Robert Graysmith that a man with the same description gave him the chills,before nightfall settled in because the lone individual was staring at the witness a few hundred yards down a country hillside. Earlier on at the Lake Herman Pump House,just prior to the arrival of Faraday and Jensens,another couple parked in that same location only to outrun another vehicle chasing them at high speed south towards the Benicia Freeway onramp

Heres more on that chase-
the person who was chased was named Crow.He tells his story here:
http://www.thezodiacmansonconnection.co ... lated.html

Heres more info about the man "william Joseph Grant" or "bill Grant":
age 89,DOB 3/6/20,Fairfield Calif. So i am assuming this is the same ,and correct guy. And the interesting news is,
There are 19 Criminal Check HITS for all William J Grant in the state of CA.
#1-
OFFENSE DETAILS
CASE NUMBER: B93F0888 - Confirm Case at the Courthouse
COUNTY CHARGED: Riverside DISTRICT: RIVERSIDE SUPERIOR
OFFENSE DATE: 04/15/1993 OFFENSE COUNTY: Riverside OFFENSE DESCRIPTION: 192(C)(1) PC 20001 VC

#2-
William Joe Grant
CA
SOURCE: CA

OFFENSE DETAILS
CASE NUMBER: BA 989858 - Confirm Case at the Courthouse
COUNTY CHARGED: Los Angeles DISTRICT: CENTRAL SUPERIOR
OFFENSE DATE: 06/23/1989 OFFENSE COUNTY: Los Angeles
OFFENSE DESCRIPTION: H 11355

#3-
IDENTIFICATION
William Joseph Grant
CA
SOURCE: CA
DOB: 12/15/1934(THIS MADE ME THINK OF THE "today is my birthday and i need to kill" since his bday is so close to the supposed call to Belli's home,but his bday does NOT match the 3/6/20 bday of the W.J.G. i ran,so it may be a coincidence))
OFFENSE DETAILS
CASE NUMBER: 60705DKWG - Confirm Case at the Courthouse
COUNTY CHARGED: Riverside DISTRICT: RIVERSIDE SUPERIOR
OFFENSE DATE: 01/16/2007 OFFENSE COUNTY: Riverside

There are several offenses/court cae#'s that came up in his background check,and several offshoots of that name such as WILLIAM JOSHUA GRANT/ WILLIAM JOHN GRANT/ WILLIAM JAMES GRANT,etc. I am not sure if these are due to typos,or if he used aliases,or if somehow the reports is also pulling up info for different WILLIAM GRANTS. But most of the reports seem to have a connection to RIVERSIDE

In addition there is also a SANTA BARBARA offense(Domingos/Edwards connection?)

There are also multiple civil judgements regarding his name as well.

There are 2 mailing addresses on file,both in Fairfield,one is a PO BX and the other a residential address. I just mapquested it,and Fairfield is a whopping 17 miles from Vallejo and 32 miles from San Fran!! . He has lived here for several years. His wife passed away a couple years ago. At the time of the Zodiac attacks he lived in Suisun City,also about 17 miles from Vallejo.I wanted to also run an Employment background check,but you must signoff on the fact that the person has given you written authorization to do an employment background check(which obviously he has not) Lastly,there is no date of death record,so i assume he is still alive.

Wow,i wish i could dig up 3 things,his employment records,(i know he was a real estate salesman in Fairfield,CA.)his DMV records(did he in fact own a white Chevy back in the late 60's?) and lastly gun ownership recorder(did any guns he owned match those used in the Zodiac attacks?)

UPDATE: found this regarding aliases- Subject Name: William J Grant
Listed Aliases: William J Grant, Bill J Grant, Marion M Grant
Listed Dates of Birth: Mar 06, 1920
Listed Ages: 89

Can anyone add any info about this guy?? Anyone have any DMV connections to see if he ever owned a white chevy impala?

I also got to thinking that his name fits in with a cipher that Zodiac mailed. From 4/20/70 Zodiac wrote "by the way have you cracked the last cipher i sent you? My name is ____ (followed by 13 symbol cipher).
Two possible solutions are:
my name is WILLIAMJOSEPH or my name is WILLIAM_GRANT.


And at the end of the 3 part cipher mailed to the papers,there are 18 leftover symbols,that have never been solved. The name WILLIAMJOSEPHGRANT has 18 letters.

His name fits into both of these ciphers,what are the odds??

Take a listen to these youtube videos. They are of a retired police officer named Lyndon Lafferty who called into a talkshow to speak about Grant,AKA Andy Walker.(coincidentally,it was falsely reported that Gareth Penn was the caller pretending to be a police officer) Some very interesting stuff he has to say:
pt.1 [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC-u8nCKMGM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC-u8nCKMGM[/COLO"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/COLO"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]
pt.2 [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CspUUS10GiU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CspUUS10 ... re=related[/COLO"]YouTube - Savage & ZODIAC KILLER CALLER PT2[/COLO"]YouTube - Savage & ZODIAC KILLER CALLER PT2[/ame]

I have been told that Grant was cleared as a Zodiac suspect thru Handwriting and Fingerprints,and in addition,he was out of town supposedly during one of the Z attacks,but i cant verify that,and havent seen any police reports clearing him.

I have also gathered that there was a BILL GRANT who was a member of ......." DIABLO NUMISMATIC SOCIETY" You remember Zodiac mentioning Mt Diablo,right?

 

[morf13]

where is everyone at? No Z case fans?

 

[Lurker Steve]

I also got to thinking that his name fits in with a cipher that Zodiac mailed. From 4/20/70 Zodiac wrote "by the way have you cracked the last cipher i sent you? My name is ____ (followed by 13 symbol cipher).
Two possible solutions are:
my name is WILLIAMJOSEPH or my name is WILLIAM_GRANT.


And at the end of the 3 part cipher mailed to the papers,there are 18 leftover symbols,that have never been solved. The name WILLIAMJOSEPHGRANT has 18 letters.

His name fits into both of these ciphers,what are the odds??

RONALD_REAGAN and RONALDWILSONREAGAN. And he was in California back then, wasn't he?

The average length of a first/given name is a bit under 6 characters, and the average length of a last name a bit OVER 6 characters, so someone's name length fitting both ciphers is going to be pretty common.

 

[morf13]

RONALD_REAGAN and RONALDWILSONREAGAN. And he was in California back then, wasn't he?

The average length of a first/given name is a bit under 6 characters, and the average length of a last name a bit OVER 6 characters, so someone's name length fitting both ciphers is going to be pretty common.

Let me make it even more clear:
In the first confirmed Z letter sent to the papers on 7/31/69(the 3 part cipher),zodiac said, "IN THIS CIPHER IS MY IDENTITY". Well as we know,the cipher was solved,and one of the lines said "I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MY NAME BECAUSE YOU WILL TRY TO SLOW DOWN OR STOP MY COLLECTING OF SLAVES FOR MY AFTERLIFE". At this point everyone threw up their hands,and said,wow he lied to us he didnt give us his identity. But wait,not so fast. There were 18 symbols left over. Some people thought that they symbols represented the same letters in the cipher,and that if you scrambled or rearranged the letters,you would get a name,like Robert Emmet the hippie,etc. Other people thought that those 18 symbols were simply leftovers,to give the cipher a nice even appearance.

I started thinking,perhaps,that the last 18 symbols were a separate cipher,and the symbols represented different letters then in the top cipher. Also,that the letters in this second cipher,once rearranged,WOULD show his IDENITY(as Z put it,lets face it he really wanted to tell people who he was,but he also wanted to play a game,so he couldnt just state his name plainly,and i am sure that even though he wanted to tell people who he was,he didnt want to go to jail)So i started to tear thru it. Now let me tell you something. I am in no means great with puzzles,codes,etc,i dont have the patience. But here is what i discovered.

1-there are 18 symbols leftover at the end of the 3 part cipher
2-Out of the 18 symbols,there are 15 different symbols(3 are repeated once)
3-The name WILLIAMJOSEPHGRANT has 18 letters,there are 15 different letters in his name (3 are repeated once)

What are the odds that this could work,and git ,and match up perfectly. Out of the thousands of people investigated,how many had 18 letters in their name,with 3 of which repeating? I would bet the farm,only one. WILLIAMJOSEPHGRANT. This was a guy that looked like the Z sketches,that owned a white chevy like the one seen on Lake Herman Rd the night of the attack there,that had months of military code training,that was said to have known Darlene Ferrin.Now throw in this cipher matching his name perfectly,and its right there in front of you,its a bit overwhelming!

If you think the 18 symbol cipher is still just a coincidence,heres some more. In the 4/20/70 letter to the papers,Zodiac wrote "By the way have you cracked the last cipher i sent you ? My name is_______" (followed by 13 symbols)
The name WILLIAMJGRANT fits perfectly-it too has 13 symbols. Is this all a coincidence? I think its too much to be a coincidence

 

[Lurker Steve]

1-there are 18 symbols leftover at the end of the 3 part cipher
2-Out of the 18 symbols,there are 15 different symbols(3 are repeated once)
3-The name WILLIAMJOSEPHGRANT has 18 letters,there are 15 different letters in his name (3 are repeated once)

What are the odds that this could work,and git ,and match up perfectly. Out of the thousands of people investigated,how many had 18 letters in their name,with 3 of which repeating? I would bet the farm,only one.

Except the cipher isn't that simple. You're basically saying that it is a simple substitution cipher - which is the only way that the distribution of letters (15 unique of 26, 3 repeats) would be exactly the same as WJG's.

Which is absurd. That's the kind of cipher you'd see in grade school. The reason is related to your argument: given enough plaintext, I can look at letter frequency and crack the code. This is something that hasn't been cracked in DECADES (assuming it is even real ciphertext and not just random garbage, but I'll get to that later.)

The whole idea of good encryption is to make it impervious to attacks like this. Zodiac used a substitution cipher of sorts for the cracked letter, but he used more than 26 symbols to make it difficult to do your standard frequency analysis. He also used other tricks like misspelling words to make it harder to decrypt.

I would not be surprised if the final 18 letters were thrown in just to play havoc with the frequency analysis; in fact, there is even a term for this in cryptography - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padding_(cryptography). That technique has been used for a very long time, and it's still being used today in block ciphers. Zodiac would know that.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the 13 letter cipher was garbage that was meant to keep people busy. There's just not enough plaintext to work with. Zodiac would also know that.

I do think it is a coincidence.

I also don't think Zodiac told us who he was in any of his ciphers. He even said that he wouldn't tell us his name in one of his ciphers, http://www.zodiackiller.com/ExaminerCipher.html.

 

[morf13]

Except the cipher isn't that simple. You're basically saying that it is a simple substitution cipher - which is the only way that the distribution of letters (15 unique of 26, 3 repeats) would be exactly the same as WJG's.

Which is absurd. That's the kind of cipher you'd see in grade school. The reason is related to your argument: given enough plaintext, I can look at letter frequency and crack the code. This is something that hasn't been cracked in DECADES (assuming it is even real ciphertext and not just random garbage, but I'll get to that later.)

The whole idea of good encryption is to make it impervious to attacks like this. Zodiac used a substitution cipher of sorts for the cracked letter, but he used more than 26 symbols to make it difficult to do your standard frequency analysis. He also used other tricks like misspelling words to make it harder to decrypt.

I would not be surprised if the final 18 letters were thrown in just to play havoc with the frequency analysis; in fact, there is even a term for this in cryptography - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padding_(cryptography). That technique has been used for a very long time, and it's still being used today in block ciphers. Zodiac would know that.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the 13 letter cipher was garbage that was meant to keep people busy. There's just not enough plaintext to work with. Zodiac would also know that.

I do think it is a coincidence.

I also don't think Zodiac told us who he was in any of his ciphers. He even said that he wouldn't tell us his name in one of his ciphers, http://www.zodiackiller.com/ExaminerCipher.html.

Zodiac said "in this cipher is my IDENTITY" Then when deciphered,it said, "i will not give you my name" But hold on,isnt the cipher,the entire BODY of what he wrote? Not just the first part of the code,but the entire code? The last 18 symbols may be just filler to make the cipher look nice and even. But it may include his "identity". Also,you have to assume that perhaps Zodiac did want to tell people who he was,but he didnt want to go to jail. So he put hid ID in the last 18 symbols. But those last 18 symbols may have stood for completely different letters then they stood for in the top part of the cipher. In addidtion,for added security,he also mad it into a anagram,in which the letters would have to be shuffled around to ID him.

Again lets assume for a second that its possible that the last 18 symbols are his ID. There are 18 spaces,with 15 different symbols. Again,WILLIAMJOSEPHGRANT has 18 spaces with 15 different letters. If its a coincidence,its a big one.

By the way,i had thought that it was nearly impossible to put someone elses name in there that also had 18 spaces with 15 different letters. Then someone pointed out to me, TheodoreJKaczynski .

That name has 18 spaces with 15 different letters!

As you may know Ted K. has been suspected by some as being Zodiac. But he wasnt trained for several months in Military code training,Grant was. Grant also taught it. Grant lived close to the area of the Zodiac murders in 1969. Ted K. had moved by this time from Calif. to Illinois.

I am not saying Grant is Zodiac. But he was a suspect at one point,that met some interesting common points with Zodiac. I have heard that he was cleared as a suspect,but cant find conclusive proof of how & when this happened.

He also had ties to the SIERRA CLUB,like Zodiac mentioned in a letter. He lived on a property at the time of the attacks that was lined with tall pine trees,and you would have to "peek thru the pines" to see out to the road."peek thru the pines" was mentioned by Zodiac,or i should say,in a mailing purported to be from Zodiac. Also,this property would flood out when it rained hard. In one of Zodiacs letters, he said "i was swamped out by the rain". One thing i am trying to verify,is whether this home had a basement,since zodiac mentioned having a "basement for future use" in one of his letters.

Throw all this stuff into a pot,and it makes an interesting soup!

Add in the fact that he owned a white chevy at the time of the Zodiac attacks. A white Chevy was reportedly seen staked out in front of Darlene Ferrins home,and a white chevy was seen by MULTIPLE WITNESSES on Lake Herman Rd,at the very place where the Faraday/Jensen murders happened,over an hour before the murders happened.

 

[freshwater]

Kaczynski is NOT Zodiac. He is most definitely not the type of person who wants to confront people up close and personal. He was a shy, distant loner who wanted to hurt people from afar. Besides, I don't think he was ever as overweight as the descriptions of Zodiac.

 

[morf13]

Kaczynski is NOT Zodiac. He is most definitely not the type of person who wants to confront people up close and personal. He was a shy, distant loner who wanted to hurt people from afar. Besides, I don't think he was ever as overweight as the descriptions of Zodiac.

Freshwater,i agree with you! BUT,Grant WAS a bit overweight like people said Zodiac was.

 

[morf13]

Some real good input here from everyone in this Zodiac thread.

If you like the Zodiac topic,come over to: http://zodiaczee.50.forumer.com/index.php

We work as a "team" to unlock motivations,background,and eventually the ID of Zodiac. Feel free to talk about theories or suspects,without fear of getting banned. The only rule,is be courteous and respectful of other members,even if you dont agree with them.

 

[Richard]

Except the cipher isn't that simple. You're basically saying that it is a simple substitution cipher - which is the only way that the distribution of letters (15 unique of 26, 3 repeats) would be exactly the same as WJG's.

Which is absurd. That's the kind of cipher you'd see in grade school. The reason is related to your argument: given enough plaintext, I can look at letter frequency and crack the code. This is something that hasn't been cracked in DECADES (assuming it is even real ciphertext and not just random garbage, but I'll get to that later.)

The whole idea of good encryption is to make it impervious to attacks like this. Zodiac used a substitution cipher of sorts for the cracked letter, but he used more than 26 symbols to make it difficult to do your standard frequency analysis. He also used other tricks like misspelling words to make it harder to decrypt.

I would not be surprised if the final 18 letters were thrown in just to play havoc with the frequency analysis; in fact, there is even a term for this in cryptography - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padding_(cryptography). That technique has been used for a very long time, and it's still being used today in block ciphers. Zodiac would know that.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the 13 letter cipher was garbage that was meant to keep people busy. There's just not enough plaintext to work with. Zodiac would also know that.

I do think it is a coincidence.

I also don't think Zodiac told us who he was in any of his ciphers. He even said that he wouldn't tell us his name in one of his ciphers, http://www.zodiackiller.com/ExaminerCipher.html.

You make some very interesting comments about Cyphers/Codes.

It is very true that "filler" is used in encoding messages. This "filler" is usually put in at the end of the message to make it of a more uniform length with other messages. This is done so that the importance of a message cannot be seen simply by the length of text.

The standard practice is to put all of your filler at the END of the message. This way, the Communications person who is de-coding the message can get the meat of the message decoded before running into a lot of nonsense letters or words. Decoding takes time, even when you already have the key, and in a tactical situation, you do not have time to waste.

There was no law or regulation regarding when and where to use filler, but in actual practice, it was almost always used at the end of a message. If you put it in early, you would definitely hear about it later!

It is, however, possible (although maybe not probable) that Zodiac was using a second code, or a shifting step within his starting code to "sign" his messages. The answer to this might be seen if this was a consistant pattern or habit of his in other messages.

Each message had a different code which needed to be cracked, although he did use the same symbols, letters, etc. Did any of the other cracked code keys fit with any of the undecipherabloe words?

I personally think that he saw his "identity" as THE ZODIAC, rather than as his real name.

 

[justthinkin]

I am by no means anywhere close to being an expert on the Zodiac, and don't have it in me to want to be. Thought I'd make that clear first. : )

Anyhoo, just got through reading Christopher Farmer's take on him. I'm totally impressed with his ability to decode the Zodiac's messages, and he makes a great case for Penn being the Z. Then I read that Penn didn't work at Tiburon Library until 1991. : (

So how does he answer this discrepancy?

Morf13, bud you are everywhere there's talk of the Z. Can you spell obsession? LOL.

 

[morf13]

I am by no means anywhere close to being an expert on the Zodiac, and don't have it in me to want to be. Thought I'd make that clear first. : )

Anyhoo, just got through reading Christopher Farmer's take on him. I'm totally impressed with his ability to decode the Zodiac's messages, and he makes a great case for Penn being the Z. Then I read that Penn didn't work at Tiburon Library until 1991. : (

So how does he answer this discrepancy?

Morf13, bud you are everywhere there's talk of the Z. Can you spell obsession? LOL.

JUSTTHINKIN, i am hooked! I fully admit it. This case reeled me in and wont let me go. Theres so many twists and turns,better than any crime fiction book you could read. Sometimes i just want to say ENOUGH!

As far as Chris Farmers site,i have to admit,all of the analyticl stuff,IS NOT my cup of tea,or my specialty. I read that long boring report,and was lost 5 minutes in. I dont know if Farmers report is way off,or is dead on. I can tell you this,PENN is a good "person of interest" who at one time said that he was an actual suspect. I have found some really good circumstancial stuff regarding Penn,but cant find anything conclusively linking Penn to Zodiac. As a matter of fact,its downright hard to find alot of info on him,but he is on my back burner as a POI.

 

[justthinkin]

Seems like it would be easy enough to obtain dna from Penn to prove or disprove Farmer's case for Penn as the Z.

I think the Z is still alive, and on his death bed he's going to confess. He'll want to receive full credit, and won't want people left guesssing as to who the Z was. JMO.

I edited out the rest because I really haven't accumulated enough knowledge on the subject.

 

[morf13]

I agree that Zodiac may have a plan for his name to be revealed after his death. What fun would it be to play his game if nobody knew it was him that won it?

By the way,Farmers sire opord,is DEAD! Very slow,hardly any posts. Heres the newest site where we discuss the zodiac case along with various theories,suspects,etc
http://zodiaczee.50.forumer.com/index.php?sid=b59697bf704d56894cd2d27a0640e32e

Hope to see u there!

 

[morf13]

For any of you that may be interested in the Zodiac case,and theories,suspects,etc, please join us at:
http://zodiaczee.50.forumer.com/index.php?sid=c102077283bf918ce668668f290fc75a