‘Mother hen’ to media villain: The life of Debbie Bradley - Kansas City Star 11/5/11

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  • #521
I would really like to believe that DB had no part in Lisa's disappearance. But there are so many things that leave huge doubts. The biggest thing for me is not allowing the boys to be re-interviewed and not submitting DNA samples. These are 2 very simple things that could help rule her out and allow the police to perhaps move on in this case. But they are just adamantly against this, it seems. It baffles me. I guess I compare these actions to what I would be willing to do to find my baby. That would be anything. DB's willingness to find her child seems limited, imo.

"the couple has allowed police to:

Take their computer; call an Amber Alert, knowing that it would bring federal investigators into the case; take their other two children for forensic interviews; have the complete run of their home, their vehicles, a shed and a pop-up camper; take DNA and other biological evidence; obtain Lisa’s medical records, including those for well-baby visits; and conduct a polygraph examination on Bradley.

The couple also receives five or six calls a day from investigators, said Short, who estimated that Bradley and Irwin each have spent about 40 hours answering police questions since Lisa disappeared.

Young acknowledged that the parents have been helpful.

“They’ve done other things, but when I say we’re not getting full cooperation, I’m saying we’re not getting what we need,” Young said"

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html#ixzz1d2bUthUB
 
  • #522
Uh oh! Someone(s) in trouble then...

And it was raw footage subpoenaed, not just the editted and aired footage, so I wonder what we didn't see? Wasn't that one interview (was it MK's?) 40 minutes or an hour, and we saw only a couple minutes?

It is zero surprise to me that LE keeps looking at the immediate family. :twocents:
There is a LOT of footage we didn't see. I totally understand LE wanting raw footage because they also know the game the media plays with editing. It doesn't necessarily mean that anybody is in trouble. they just want what was REALLY said and in it's FULL context. This could be the parents and also witnesses to also who or what was in the background.
 
  • #523
I may not be as convinced as you about DB's innocence but I couldn't agree more with you at JT. I feel for the parents with him being involved, I don't think for a second that he got involved to help them find Lisa.

I also think this benefactor that will be paying the salaries is one of the national media outlets.

JMHO
Let me clarify something I am not convinced of anybody's innocence or guilt.
 
  • #524
"the couple has allowed police to:

Take their computer; call an Amber Alert, knowing that it would bring federal investigators into the case; take their other two children for forensic interviews; have the complete run of their home, their vehicles, a shed and a pop-up camper; take DNA and other biological evidence; obtain Lisa’s medical records, including those for well-baby visits; and conduct a polygraph examination on Bradley.

The couple also receives five or six calls a day from investigators, said Short, who estimated that Bradley and Irwin each have spent about 40 hours answering police questions since Lisa disappeared.

Young acknowledged that the parents have been helpful.

“They’ve done other things, but when I say we’re not getting full cooperation, I’m saying we’re not getting what we need,” Young said"

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html#ixzz1d2bUthUB

I can understand their wanting other investgators; after everything that they have done, LE doesn't have concrete answers. THAT tells me that there is nothing to learn from them that hasn't already been learned. Better investigators and different directions seem to be needed.
 
  • #525
"the couple has allowed police to:

Take their computer; call an Amber Alert, knowing that it would bring federal investigators into the case; take their other two children for forensic interviews; have the complete run of their home, their vehicles, a shed and a pop-up camper; take DNA and other biological evidence; obtain Lisa’s medical records, including those for well-baby visits; and conduct a polygraph examination on Bradley.

The couple also receives five or six calls a day from investigators, said Short, who estimated that Bradley and Irwin each have spent about 40 hours answering police questions since Lisa disappeared.

Young acknowledged that the parents have been helpful.

“They’ve done other things, but when I say we’re not getting full cooperation, I’m saying we’re not getting what we need,” Young said"

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html#ixzz1d2bUthUB


Yes, take DNA and other biological evidence from the HOME. I'm not talking about that.

Police want to conduct additional, separate interviews with each of baby Lisa's missing parents. They also want baby Lisa's 5- and 8-year-old half-brothers questioned by specially trained forensic interviewers.

Bradley and Irwin have not agreed to new, separate interviews. Neither parent has been interviewed since Oct. 8, four days after they reported Lisa missing. Last week, the impasse over interviewing the boys seemed to have been broken with a session set for Friday. But Tacopina canceled, according to police, promising to reschedule this week. At the same time as the interviews, police wanted DNA swabs from the boys to assist in identifying DNA found in the home.
http://news.yahoo.com/baby-lisa-irwin-missing-four-weeks-police-doing-191500912.html
 
  • #526
I understand and agree that it is and should be used as an investigative tool, but I am not understanding how it can be used as evidence if it comes to trial.

It really depends on the circumstances whether it can be used or not. Video is usually in the same category as eyewitness testimony, but because this is question and answer it could be seen as indirect evidence. The defense would have a really good chance of having it suppressed, since there is no legal obligation for the parents to be honest with the media. It really just depends on what they said, and how much it helps the family versus how much it hurts them.

But no matter what, LE wanted those tapes to see if there were any clues - admissible or not - as to what happened and where they might find direct or physical evidence. THAT evidence would not be excluded even if the recording itself would be. (ie: it would not be considered fruit of the poisoned tree, because the video itself is legal, and the way LE got it was legal).

:)
 
  • #527
I can understand their wanting other investgators; after everything that they have done, LE doesn't have concrete answers. THAT tells me that there is nothing to learn from them that hasn't already been learned. Better investigators and different directions seem to be needed.

But LE hasn't said that there is nothing more they could learn from the parents. Actually, they have stated the opposite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #528
Yes but they had O'Brian for the Oct 8th questioning after they ended questioning on the 4th, which I understand was also cut short, then CS was representing them until JT showed up on the 17th. Through 3 legal representatives (now 4), they chose not to co-operate with LE in the way in which LE wanted them to. I don't know what this means but I find it hard to believe that 3-4 different attorneys all felt the same way and that it was best for the parent's not to co-operate based on what the parents have said about the original interviews.

MOO
JT was representing them first. HE hired, or picked, whichever you prefer, CS. She came after JT. IMO all cooperation started when JT came in their life. He was there by phone representing them before the media fiasco and IMO he is the one who brokered it.

If somebody can find a working link for the very first interview with JT and BS it is explained there of how long has represented them.
 
  • #529
I think LE is in the process of unravelling the highly sordid personal aspects of this case. If SB is suspected it opens a huge can of worms wrt DB and her dynamics with the people in her life. I am convinced there is a lot of murky stuff that will come to light about the marriage of the neighbors and DB/JI. I think LE is doing what they can to expose this soap opera for what it is. I feel there is motive after motive lurking just beneath the surface here. DB is afraid of this coming to light and has stopped helping them so she does not have to admit anything about her secret life. Who really is the father of Lisa? We will probably never know.
 
  • #530
Sometimes this whole case has the feel of a soap opera.
 
  • #531
I understand and agree that it is and should be used as an investigative tool, but I am not understanding how it can be used as evidence if it comes to trial.

media interviews wouldn't be used in a trial imhoo... but they can be used to return a true bill for indictment by the grand jury.
((eta: or decide not to return a true bill.. in other words they can be used in consideration of such))

:twocents:
 
  • #532
But LE hasn't said that there is nothing more they could learn from the parents. Actually, they have stated the opposite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm speaking to the parents perspective. After the numerous hours spent with the parents they should have had the info they need. IF LE needs more info then LE has to do re-interviews with the attorney present. I can understand the parents saying that. As soon as the parents have a lawyer, LE knows the procedure, lawyer has to be present. If LE hadn't made disparaging remarks from the beginning they would have an easier time; the parents did the right thing getting representation. It seems like lE has a thin case.

LE should have had DNA from the beginning.
 
  • #533
JT was representing them first. HE hired, or picked, whichever you prefer, CS. She came after JT. IMO all cooperation started when JT came in their life. He was there by phone representing them before the media fiasco and IMO he is the one who brokered it.

If somebody can find a working link for the very first interview with JT and BS it is explained there of how long has represented them.

-10/17/2011--------press conf. video @ link 39:21

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...a-irwin-family-to-hold-230-pm-news-conference

New York City defense attorney Joe Tacopina hired to represent Irwin family
 
  • #534
I think LE is in the process of unravelling the highly sordid personal aspects of this case. If SB is suspected it opens a huge can of worms wrt DB and her dynamics with the people in her life. I am convinced there is a lot of murky stuff that will come to light about the marriage of the neighbors and DB/JI. I think LE is doing what they can to expose this soap opera for what it is. I feel there is motive after motive lurking just beneath the surface here. DB is afraid of this coming to light and has stopped helping them so she does not have to admit anything about her secret life. Who really is the father of Lisa? We will probably never know.

At this juncture WHERE Lisa is is more important than paternity. To assume that JI is not her blood father should, if ever, come later. No wonder DB's dad said what he did.
 
  • #535
That was pretty much my take on the article too Insomnia Momma. This is a girl who was the only girl in family of boys once her mother passed away. Probably pretty spoiled and pampered. She doesn't appear to have had to take responsibility for anything so I don't see the "mother hen" title fitting her at all. She may have been looked up to by her younger brothers, but she didn't see a problem abandoning them by moving out a year after their mother passed away and then moving to NC because she wanted to be a grown up married woman.

She's made no attempt to get a GED or further her education in any way. She has only worked a couple of likely part time minimum wage retail jobs and she has never had to really provide for her son. She's always finding someone to take them in. JI is just the latest in a string of people who is caring for her and her son. She is a SAHM who had two children in school most of the day and one child to take care of until JI got home likely. And that child is missing.

The only example her father presented for her concern over her children was an incident that happened when she wasn't even at home watching over them. Her father was there apparently and she was hanging across the street. Maybe she went over to borrow a cup of sugar...but I doubt it. What's the attraction across the street anyway? It keeps coming up in this case. :waitasec:

And of course the one that has been pointed out in several posts, leaving her MIL's home in the middle of the night, in her vehicle without permission no less, while her young son was left sleeping in the home and she just assumed that someone would be there to take care of his needs? She's been with JI for three years so that child was 2 or under at the time this was going on.

Yeah...I didn't see that article as painting her in a very positive light...as a responsible caregiver to three young children anyway.

MOO

ITA! I was trying to convey this in my post a couple of pages back, but you did a much better job at explaining what I was thinking! LOL! :)

IMO - people that are only concerned with themselves, at the expense of others (even people they are supposed to be responsible for i.e. their kids) are VERY good at seeking out the next enabler/caregiver. They are just like womanizers, addicts (which could obviously be at play here as well), con artists, etc. IMO, and can spot a target a mile away.

***Again, everything below is simply my opinion, based on my personal life experiences and my own perception of the relationship between DB and JI. Not saying that it's really like this for DB and the people in her life, but that is what I'm picking up on in my observations of them. I am not a professional at detecting personality or mental disorders, so please take this as MHOO and with a grain of salt! :) ***

In my personal experience, it seems the usual target is someone who tends give people the benefit of the doubt, only sees the good and ignores the bad, etc. They tend to feel empathy for her (example: bad childhood, bad breakup, abusive ex, single mom, less than ideal life in general) and want to "rescue" her or in the case of a parental figure, "take her under their wing". She is usually very good at honing in on the target's emotional triggers, playing on their need to be a hero or rescuer or mother they didn't get to have.

It's hard to really understand the dynamic unless you experience it first hand, and I'm probably doing a terrible job at explaining it. But I do believe it takes two to tango in this scenario. The self-serving ones that seek out caretakers/rescuers aren't very successful without the other half of the equation. There has to be that one person or people that can only see the good and none of the bad. Or if they see the bad, it's easily explained away by the negative past experiences she had - before they came into her life of course. And she will play into that by being a victim - of her past, of society, of whatever - as long as the two roles are balanced in this way, it doesn't matter what is fact or fiction.

People only see what they are prepared to see.

As I said, I've seen this firsthand and it's very bizarre. The rescuer will defend and protect the self-server regardless of fact, logic, or reason.

In fact, it may then turn into a situation where the rescuer feels as though no one has ever stood up for her before, and this is a time that she NEEDS someone to be by her side for once. So regardless of what they believe or know, all that matters is that they continue to defend her and stand by her - to prove to her AND to themselves that they are exactly what they promised her they'd be. It's one of those strange relationship dynamics where one doesn't work without the other - at least to some degree. As long as there is someone looking to be taken care of, there will always be someone, somewhere who wants to be the caretaker.

And in this case, I believe you are right about there being a long string of people that have taken care of her, and when that situation no longer suited her needs, she moved on to the next willing person.

In my post a couple of pages back, I had mentioned that perhaps she felt she was out of options at the moment, but the stress and pressure of daily life with JI was becoming too much to deal with. And almost like a compulsion, it became a need to change the situation into something more conducive to her self-serving goals. And if she felt she had no one else to take her in, it would make sense for her to attempt to regain control over her situation by whatever means necessary.

And since she appears to have her own self-interest in mind, wanting to party or have more adult time, what would be the the first thing to go?

***Once again, this is MHO and nothing more.***

I'm not entirely certain of what has transpired with this family, and my perceptions could easily be way off base. So please understand I am just throwing this in there for discussion purposes only, and not necessarily as an accusation of guilt.

And even if all of the above were spot on, BL could have still been abducted in the middle of the night by a stranger - making this whole scenario a moot point in regards to their child being missing. Having said that, I hope I covered all the bases for everyone - regardless of which side of the fence you're on. :)

Thanks for reading!
 
  • #536
"the couple has allowed police to:

Take their computer; call an Amber Alert, knowing that it would bring federal investigators into the case; take their other two children for forensic interviews; have the complete run of their home, their vehicles, a shed and a pop-up camper; take DNA and other biological evidence; obtain Lisa’s medical records, including those for well-baby visits; and conduct a polygraph examination on Bradley.

The couple also receives five or six calls a day from investigators, said Short, who estimated that Bradley and Irwin each have spent about 40 hours answering police questions since Lisa disappeared.

Young acknowledged that the parents have been helpful.

“They’ve done other things, but when I say we’re not getting full cooperation, I’m saying we’re not getting what we need,” Young said"

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html#ixzz1d2bUthUB

How do you "allow" LE to call an Amber alert?
As for the interviews with the children,follow up interviews would be a natural progression in an investigation ,wouldn't they? As info comes out from others and new evidence is found, more questions come up. If LE has questions for the boys,the only other witnesses in the house, why are the parents denying it?
The statement in the article quoted sounds like lawyer spin to me. Why is that even necessary? JMO
 
  • #537
At this juncture WHERE Lisa is is more important than paternity. To assume that JI is not her blood father should, if ever, come later. No wonder DB's dad said what he did.

I would think if there was a biological father, not JI, that would be very important. Maybe he came and took her.
 
  • #538
I think LE is in the process of unravelling the highly sordid personal aspects of this case. If SB is suspected it opens a huge can of worms wrt DB and her dynamics with the people in her life. I am convinced there is a lot of murky stuff that will come to light about the marriage of the neighbors and DB/JI. I think LE is doing what they can to expose this soap opera for what it is. I feel there is motive after motive lurking just beneath the surface here. DB is afraid of this coming to light and has stopped helping them so she does not have to admit anything about her secret life. Who really is the father of Lisa? We will probably never know.


BBM: I totally agree ... there is "something" that DB does NOT want exposed ...

:waitasec: "Speculating here" : is "something" about to be exposed about DB that we have not heard about ?

And presto ! This "fluff piece" about DB to make her look like a "caring mother", someone who has had a "rough life", blah blah blah ?

MOO ...
 
  • #539
I'm speaking to the parents perspective. After the numerous hours spent with the parents they should have had the info they need. IF LE needs more info then LE has to do re-interviews with the attorney present. I can understand the parents saying that. As soon as the parents have a lawyer, LE knows the procedure, lawyer has to be present. If LE hadn't made disparaging remarks from the beginning they would have an easier time; the parents did the right thing getting representation. It seems like lE has a thin case.

LE should have had DNA from the beginning.
BBM
What disparaging remarks?

Has LE said they want the parents to come in without their lawyer? Interviews with lawyers is common practice for LE . What have I missed?

Common sense would tell us that as an investigation progresses more questions come up.
The parents should have questions for LE .What have they learned? Have they followed up on this tip or that info? What else can we do? Who can we bring in to help us find our baby. Call TES .Call Klass Kids,Call anyone who can further this investigation.
Anything the parents do now is too little ,too late. If they wanted their baby found they would have used this national media spotlight to do it. Instead ,they have high profile attorneys keeping help at bay. :banghead:
 
  • #540
BBM
What disparaging remarks?

Has LE said they want the parents to come in without their lawyer? Interviews with lawyers is common practice for LE . What have I missed?

Common sense would tell us that as an investigation progresses more questions come up.
The parents should have questions for LE .What have they learned? Have they followed up on this tip or that info? What else can we do? Who can we bring in to help us find our baby. Call TES .Call Klass Kids,Call anyone who can further this investigation.
Anything the parents do now is too little ,too late. If they wanted their baby found they would have used this national media spotlight to do it. Instead ,they have high profile attorneys keeping help at bay. :banghead:

The one thing Deborah has been 100% consistent about... Deborah is no more interested in her daughter NOW then she was when she tossed Lisa in her crib and went partying.

Slightly OT, but here's a link to another loving mommy and missing kid case that is breaking now...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153949"]WA WA - Sky Metalwala, 2, Bellevue, 6 Nov 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
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