Was this is front of the jury?
04/22/2013 - waiting for rebuttal to continue
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Was this is front of the jury?
The State vs Jodi Arias ~ Travis Alexander murder trial
UNCONFIRMED : The proposed surrebuttal witness is Dr Robert Geffner [colleague of LaViolette] to rebut Dr Janeen Demarte on BPD.
[Supplied by Paula Feese, with thanks]
From Facebook a few minutes ago
UNCONFIRMED : The proposed surrebuttal witness is Dr Robert Geffner [colleague of LaViolette] to rebut Dr Janeen Demarte on BPD.
[Supplied by Paula Feese, with thanks]
From Facebook a few minutes ago
So in my best JM voice "where they BOTH keynote speakers" YES or NO?
Alexander family fan
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Remain calm friends. It was certain they would ask for a surrebuttal, even if just to lay a record for appeal. After their two witnesses were so thoroughly discredited, it would be nearly malpractice not to try to ask for it.
THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION
No worries. Juan has got this. Regarding the judge, I have grown more confidence in her as I have watched her shoot down each and every thing the defense has tried to bring as motions for mistrial. I liked the way she put it on the record, IN OPEN COURT, that she believed JM did NOT cross a line with ALV, indeed his inquiry of her was warranted. YEEEEEESSSS!! Can I get a witness? I just knew KatieCoolLady and the other Katie were high fiving, wherever they were.
The great thing, imo, is that even though this is a dp case, the judge can find that since JM DID, unlike the defense, follow the rules of discovery, they have known all along what Dr. DeMarte was going to testify to. She prepared a written report that was given to them that held all of her opinions and what she based them on, including the fact that she diagnosed Jodi with the disorder she testified to. They have known that she was going to dispute their experts, the pair of them, and she disagreed with their findings. They had ample opportunity to depose her. Jennifer questioned her in trial , remember when we deposed you, and you gave us your CV? I thought that it was in that depo where she realized her experts were going to be no match for the very educated and articulate Dr. DeMarte. That would have been the time to seek additional help from a third expert. This is going to be what JM refers to as Johnny come lately defense, that they want a do over. This would have been the time to file a motion and say they do not believe she is qualified as an expert in this field. NOT AFTER SHE TESTIFIES.
I recall this came up with nearly every expert in the Casey Anthony trial and boy oh boy did we learn a lot about discovery rules and why it is so important for the experts to set out in detail their findings, so there will be no gotcha moments. Indeed they had many pretrial hearings , in which the judge did rule that some of the folks the defense were trying to present, would not be testifying as experts, as to certain areas that they were not qualified in. JW is an experienced lawyer, she TEACHES, so she knows how to do this in advance of trial. Numi....well , he sleeps.
In this case, ALV filed NO REPORT.
I saw in the court case file that JM had to file a motion to ask the judge to order the defense to produce her undredacted notes. What they tried to do is supply them her very REDACTED notes. The judge did so order, and JM wound up with her notes which he used at trial to impeach her. If anything SHE deviated from her own notes and changed things she had written down on MAJOR facts such as
Jodi said she shot Travis in the closet
Jodi told her she caught Travis watching the kiddy
on the computer
Jodi told her that Travis put the knife on the night stand.
Those are major facts, and ALV literally turned her notes upside down , fell on her sword and claimed , IN RETROSPECT, that she must have just assumed that is what Jodi meant. Remember her , "I guess I just assumed she meant computer, not that the photos were on the bed, because kids these days do everything on the computer." You just can't make this stuff up!!
Dr. Samuels filed a report with conflicting findings on his own tests. How much time do we have? .....
Dr. DeMarte filed a report and testified to it, without changing her opinion. As far as them arguing that she is not experienced enough to have opined on the matter, that should have been handled before trial. Indeed she has been deemed an expert before by the court there, and hired by the court,so that argument will fail, in my opinion.
The judge will be on firm ground to deny the defense request. Even if she does allow a new expert, they will be limited to the small area the defense claims she deviated from on her report.
Don't worry, Juan Martinez was expecting this and with his twenty five years he has seen it all. He will make short order of this.
The lesser charge they are asking the judge to add, also seemed obvious that they would ask for that too, by all that they were trying to build up to with all the abuse. Otherwise there was no need to even bring up all the alleged incidents, etc. if it were just a straight he jumped at me, body slammed me, I had to defend myself against the physical threat.....self defense. It was obvious they were trying to build up for the jury her state of mind was that of someone with battered woman syndrome, and that she saw Travis through that skewed lens, thus explaining the extreme overkill. Nurmi used those words "battered woman syndrome" early on with ALV during one of the objections. I remember thinking, oh...here we go. Now they are back to, if you aren't buying our plan A, she snapped because of the build up...let us skip our others and move directly to our emergency plan, yeah, a fight broke out, spur of the moment she had to stab him after he body slammed her, what is a girl to do?
I have been thinking about how Judge Perry decided the defense had put forth NO EVIDENCE , whatsoever, and would not be entitled to argue in closing arguments ONE WORD about sexual abuse by pop or brother. That is how it seems to me here, the defense has failed miserably to prove battered woman's syndrome and outside of Jodi's self serving word, we have had NO evidence of physical abuse. I wouldn't be mad at JM if he asked for them not to be able to argue those points at all. That wont happen, but I do not think it matters. I think the jury will see any new witness as a day late and a dollar short, the clean up man, as it were. They'll yawn, ask snarky questions, pick their nails and be overtly unimpressed, just as they were with the first two.
It appeared to me that Jennifer was NOT consulting with Samuels and ALV about how to cross examine Dr. DeMarte, but rather another source altogether. Indeed she brought the manual after she realized she had been wholly misinformed by whoever told her that the person who wrote the book on domestic violence no longer uses her own criteria. She literally wanted to read the definitions to Dr. De Marte out of the manual. I laughed at that so loud I woke my husband. That is when I knew that Jennifer knew , for sure, the other two experts harmed, rather than hurt her case, by biblical proportions.
I don't think it will be any surprise to the jury that this is what gets argued in closing arguments, they have been hearing it for months, the back and forth, flip a coin, what are we arguing now caused this million dollar question. Samuels and his "PTSD is not a get out jail free card", and "Most folks who have committed a homicide suffer stress over it", just made my day. Indeed ALV set aside everything Jennifer and Nurmi were trying to get over for 18 days of Jodi " regaling us", with one sentence, "Jodi never claimed to me to have been sexually humiliated by Travis, at all. She was a willing partner in that." The defense is all over the place. Literally.
I have good faith that it wont matter what array of choices they have on the form, the state has proved premeditation, and murder one. All day long!!!
My understanding is that they must do this. IF they do not raise issues now, the next appeal lawyers will NOT be permitted to ask for the appeal court to cure any errors the judge made in the trial. So, it is expected that they ask for many a mistrial issue, and to ask for surrebuttal and to ask to add the witness after the disaster of their two. To not ask would border on malpractice. The more they leave no stone unturned in defending her, the less likely she has appeal issues, so I say....have at it.
Judging by the jury questions, they seem to be ready to take this to verdict some time ago. I have faith in them. Even if the judge allowed two more experts for the defense, nothing they can opine will take away from the Medical Examiner and how he is going to make the sky blue again in rebuttal. Those facts and those photos!!!
I heard that JM has a ninety eight percent conviction rate. My money is on him and the ME!! :rocker::rocker::rocker: MOO
THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION
No worries. Juan has got this. Regarding the judge, I have grown more confidence in her as I have watched her shoot down each and every thing the defense has tried to bring as motions for mistrial. I liked the way she put it on the record, IN OPEN COURT, that she believed JM did NOT cross a line with ALV, indeed his inquiry of her was warranted. YEEEEEESSSS!! Can I get a witness? I just knew KatieCoolLady and the other Katie were high fiving, wherever they were.
The great thing, imo, is that even though this is a dp case, the judge can find that since JM DID, unlike the defense, follow the rules of discovery, they have known all along what Dr. DeMarte was going to testify to. She prepared a written report that was given to them that held all of her opinions and what she based them on, including the fact that she diagnosed Jodi with the disorder she testified to. They have known that she was going to dispute their experts, the pair of them, and she disagreed with their findings. They had ample opportunity to depose her. Jennifer questioned her in trial , remember when we deposed you, and you gave us your CV? I thought that it was in that depo where she realized her experts were going to be no match for the very educated and articulate Dr. DeMarte. That would have been the time to seek additional help from a third expert. This is going to be what JM refers to as Johnny come lately defense, that they want a do over. This would have been the time to file a motion and say they do not believe she is qualified as an expert in this field. NOT AFTER SHE TESTIFIES.
I recall this came up with nearly every expert in the Casey Anthony trial and boy oh boy did we learn a lot about discovery rules and why it is so important for the experts to set out in detail their findings, so there will be no gotcha moments. Indeed they had many pretrial hearings , in which the judge did rule that some of the folks the defense were trying to present, would not be testifying as experts, as to certain areas that they were not qualified in. JW is an experienced lawyer, she TEACHES, so she knows how to do this in advance of trial. Numi....well , he sleeps.
In this case, ALV filed NO REPORT.
I saw in the court case file that JM had to file a motion to ask the judge to order the defense to produce her undredacted notes. What they tried to do is supply them her very REDACTED notes. The judge did so order, and JM wound up with her notes which he used at trial to impeach her. If anything SHE deviated from her own notes and changed things she had written down on MAJOR facts such as
Jodi said she shot Travis in the closet
Jodi told her she caught Travis watching the kiddy
on the computerJodi told her that Travis put the knife on the night stand.
Those are major facts, and ALV literally turned her notes upside down , fell on her sword and claimed , IN RETROSPECT, that she must have just assumed that is what Jodi meant. Remember her , "I guess I just assumed she meant computer, not that the photos were on the bed, because kids these days do everything on the computer." You just can't make this stuff up!!
Dr. Samuels filed a report with conflicting findings on his own tests. How much time do we have? .....
Dr. DeMarte filed a report and testified to it, without changing her opinion. As far as them arguing that she is not experienced enough to have opined on the matter, that should have been handled before trial. Indeed she has been deemed an expert before by the court there, and hired by the court,so that argument will fail, in my opinion.
The judge will be on firm ground to deny the defense request. Even if she does allow a new expert, they will be limited to the small area the defense claims she deviated from on her report.
Don't worry, Juan Martinez was expecting this and with his twenty five years he has seen it all. He will make short order of this.
The lesser charge they are asking the judge to add, also seemed obvious that they would ask for that too, by all that they were trying to build up to with all the abuse. Otherwise there was no need to even bring up all the alleged incidents, etc. if it were just a straight he jumped at me, body slammed me, I had to defend myself against the physical threat.....self defense. It was obvious they were trying to build up for the jury her state of mind was that of someone with battered woman syndrome, and that she saw Travis through that skewed lens, thus explaining the extreme overkill. Nurmi used those words "battered woman syndrome" early on with ALV during one of the objections. I remember thinking, oh...here we go. Now they are back to, if you aren't buying our plan A, she snapped because of the build up...let us skip our others and move directly to our emergency plan, yeah, a fight broke out, spur of the moment she had to stab him after he body slammed her, what is a girl to do?
I have been thinking about how Judge Perry decided the defense had put forth NO EVIDENCE , whatsoever, and would not be entitled to argue in closing arguments ONE WORD about sexual abuse by pop or brother. That is how it seems to me here, the defense has failed miserably to prove battered woman's syndrome and outside of Jodi's self serving word, we have had NO evidence of physical abuse. I wouldn't be mad at JM if he asked for them not to be able to argue those points at all. That wont happen, but I do not think it matters. I think the jury will see any new witness as a day late and a dollar short, the clean up man, as it were. They'll yawn, ask snarky questions, pick their nails and be overtly unimpressed, just as they were with the first two.
It appeared to me that Jennifer was NOT consulting with Samuels and ALV about how to cross examine Dr. DeMarte, but rather another source altogether. Indeed she brought the manual after she realized she had been wholly misinformed by whoever told her that the person who wrote the book on domestic violence no longer uses her own criteria. She literally wanted to read the definitions to Dr. De Marte out of the manual. I laughed at that so loud I woke my husband. That is when I knew that Jennifer knew , for sure, the other two experts harmed, rather than hurt her case, by biblical proportions.
I don't think it will be any surprise to the jury that this is what gets argued in closing arguments, they have been hearing it for months, the back and forth, flip a coin, what are we arguing now caused this million dollar question. Samuels and his "PTSD is not a get out jail free card", and "Most folks who have committed a homicide suffer stress over it", just made my day. Indeed ALV set aside everything Jennifer and Nurmi were trying to get over for 18 days of Jodi " regaling us", with one sentence, "Jodi never claimed to me to have been sexually humiliated by Travis, at all. She was a willing partner in that." The defense is all over the place. Literally.
I have good faith that it wont matter what array of choices they have on the form, the state has proved premeditation, and murder one. All day long!!!
My understanding is that they must do this. IF they do not raise issues now, the next appeal lawyers will NOT be permitted to ask for the appeal court to cure any errors the judge made in the trial. So, it is expected that they ask for many a mistrial issue, and to ask for surrebuttal and to ask to add the witness after the disaster of their two. To not ask would border on malpractice. The more they leave no stone unturned in defending her, the less likely she has appeal issues, so I say....have at it.
Judging by the jury questions, they seem to be ready to take this to verdict some time ago. I have faith in them. Even if the judge allowed two more experts for the defense, nothing they can opine will take away from the Medical Examiner and how he is going to make the sky blue again in rebuttal. Those facts and those photos!!!
I heard that JM has a ninety eight percent conviction rate. My money is on him and the ME!! :rocker::rocker::rocker: MOO
gngr~snap
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Like the cop would know or care if it was cashed!
A normal person that loved TA would not have even thought about it...
Guess that was one of the reasons that Flores said Jodi"you don't act right".
I bet he did Friday or Monday.
Remember the day she was furious in her little book?
Copying something it looked like...
Bet it was a pre test or something..
That or she was researching/writing up her own sur rebuttal! lol
ITA!!! She's learned a lot during the trial. She knows where she's messed up and where the DT and witnesses messed up. Just think how much she's absorbed from the great JM. I'm sure she's fine tuned her presentation by now.
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Can you IMAGINE how Juan Martinez FELT when you stuck him in TIME OUT right in the COURTROOM?
:floorlaugh:
Man, to have been a fly on the wall during those 'in chamber discussions' you know it would have been just GOLD
BeachGirlFromPA
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Thank you
I knew instinctively that coming here would make me start to feel better I can skip my workout tonight....I think goat wrestling covered it this morning LOL
I just worked out my aggression on a Boston Butt roast....I did a little more than pull it..... I know that sooner or later there's gonna be a post or ten here that will have me LOLing all over the place
I love this place. I love you all. And thank you for letting me vent....my cats and dogs are tired of listening to me :floorlaugh:
If he does this without interviewing and testing JODI the JURY won't BELIEVE HIM EITHER and WE ALL KNOW JUAN WI:LL BE CALLING HIM OUT ON IT!!! I hope Juan asks this GUY about all of JODI STALKING AND PREMEDITATION TOO!!! and how that fits into self defense and WISH HE WOULD ASK HIM:
"COULD YOU GUARENTEE US THAT JODI WOULD NEVER DO THIS AGAIN?"
GoAskAllie
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I agree that Jodi has taken "participating in her own defense" to a whole new level. Corrected my original post to say what I meant it to be "I hope the judge DENIES the motion" (to add the Manslaughter charge).
Whatever we may think about Nurmi, I really believe that he's afraid of her and what she might do (as in accuse him of) upon conviction. I bet that he is NEVER alone with her. He rarely makes eye contact or speaks to Jodi in the courtroom. Talk about body language! He has filed motions to be taken off the case multiple times since he was first assigned it when he was with the public defender's office. While I understand that mistrial motions are common, I think Nurmi is super-motivated by a not-so-irrational fear of Jodi. A mistrial would be a victory of sorts for the DT and Jodi, and I would bet that he'd fight tooth and nail not to first chair/represent her in a retrial. I don't think it'll come to that, but I'm sure fear of reprisal from Jodi is one of the reasons behind all their motions.
jojomonkey
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I agree completely. That jury had themselves in mind when rendering that verdict and not Caylee at all. I hope they live with the shame the rest of their lives. They didn't even attempt to deliberate, I've always felt there was one person on the jury who convinced the other there was no need to do so. Those jurors talked to each other about the trial - I have no doubt in my mind. They are small minded and weak individuals. Every single one of them.
dani
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Surrebuttal really doesn't worry me. I think the truth has been presented and I doubt the DT could do anything that will affect that. I really don't like the lesser charges....too much wiggle room there to suit me.
It's been such an unbelievable day here. My last client actually asked me to call her when I got home to let her know I got here safely. One client was rushed to the ER in heart block, another fell down a flight of stairs. Before that, one of my female goats busted her way to the 'segregated' section...found herself a boyfriend...Oh my lol Now I can be on babygoat watch..... It's been one of those days. And then I hear about the latest carp from the DT. I wish I was joking about how it feels in the pit of my stomach. Makes me wish I drank. Even a little
No, but three might. :coffeeup::coffeeup::coffeeup: (I couldn't find the margarita glass smilie, but that's OK. I'm of the opinion that my drinks should have handles anyway.)
By the way is the goat's name Jodi? :floorlaugh:
travelgal
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From your lips to the Judges ears !!!
katiedid2
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I don't get it! I'm slow that way:banghead:
Sleuth5
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Barbara Streisand is the cure for that. Seriously.
Linda From New York
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Everyday...it's something else.
This trial needs to end sometime...doesn't it? How long is the defense going to go on??
So if they bring in someone to sur-rebutt Dr. Demarte, then is there a re-rebuttal to their witness and so on and so on and so on....WHEN does it end?? :facepalm:
(P.S. - I know sur-rebutt and re-rebuttal are NOT real words
)
This trial needs to end sometime...doesn't it? How long is the defense going to go on??
So if they bring in someone to sur-rebutt Dr. Demarte, then is there a re-rebuttal to their witness and so on and so on and so on....WHEN does it end?? :facepalm:
(P.S. - I know sur-rebutt and re-rebuttal are NOT real words
)
Bernina
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I kid, I kid
Most of the people on the good faith list are LE/Forensics and custodians of records. The only custodian I didn't recognize was Don's Sporting Goods, but I may have missed posts/testimony about that. The rest were all places that we've seen receipts for, etc. before -- like McD's, Star Bucks.
I focused on the "civilian" witnesses. They were Raphael/Janie Columbo; Lisa; Deanna; Michael Bertot; Ryan; Mimi; David Prusha; Clancy; Mark & Leslie Udy; Steven Taylor; Heather Shafer; and all of Travis' sibs. I didn't see McCartney on the list.
Last, the defense has supplemented its own sentencing phase witness list to include Patricia Womack. I assume this is Jodi's friend who's been on TV recently.
So, there you have it.
I should have snipped.....Don's Sporting Goods....where JA bought her 9mm after the murder. AND..................THANK YOU!
:gthanks:
kaydono
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I agree with everything you just said. I hate to admit it, but for some odd reason the jury took a liking to the EverSnarky Baez, which factored in, somewhat, in their verdict. What is good about the Arias trial, I have a strong suspicion that this jury has bonded with Juan Martinez, has grown accustomed to his pitbull-style with witnesses, and has faith in his ability to guide them to their verdict. I hope so anyway.
It sounds to me like the Def is now using "the kitchen sink" move, throw in every possibility. There is an expression, something like taking the cooking spaghetti, throwing some against the wall and see if any stick
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