10/28/11 Private Investigator Returns, Baby Lisas Family Leaves

[Velouria]

They may be cooperating through their attorney. We just don't know. Not everything is released to the media. CS was "fired". We can speculate until we're blue in the face as to why she was fired but we don't know what is going on behind the scenes.

It's funny because when the news broke it was said she was the one who wanted the boys reinterviewed. A couple of minutes later, the media reported she was fired because she did not want the boys reinterviewed. Then later, it was reported that JT was the one who fired her because he wanted the boys reinterviewed.

Bottom line. We don't know.

I'd really love to know how that's possible, given they still haven't been re-interviewed while LE has repeatedly stated that they need answers only the parents can provide.

No, we don't know all that's going on behind the scenes, but what I do know certainly doesn't point to full cooperation, IMO.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15902780/day-26-thursday-will-mark-1-month-since-baby-was-last-seen

Friday night Tina Porter tried to offer her help to Lisa Irwin's parents but she was turned away.
"They are not being friendly with the community, not opening up to anybody. Who really hides in that situation? They should be out there beating the streets looking for their daughter, which they're not doing at all," she said angrily to reporters after being turned away.
Shortly after she left, police arrived at the request of someone in the house. Reporters told police that Porter did not create a confrontation.

I'm with Tina Porter on this one. Where is the urgency to find their daughter? And if they're suspicious of those who have reached out to them (Porter, Gil Abeita), then why aren't they seeking help from missing childrens' organizations?

 

[TxLady2]

BBM

Maybe they have. Perhaps the other questions LE has asked them are, 'Where did you hide the body? Which one of you actually killed her? Where is Lisa?' and if they are innocent, then they truly don't know. But if LE doesn't believe them, then to LE, the parents aren't cooperating fully. I have utmost respect for LE, but in my experience, they'll obfuscate the truth in the media to put pressure on the person they think is guilty. So when LE says the parents aren't helping them with the investigation, maybe the subtext is: the parents aren't telling us where the body is, etc.

That said, I'd do whatever LE wanted, because if someone snatched my baby that would be my worst nightmare. Everything after that, including LE accusing me, would just be unpleasant. Then again, they have two other children to think about and can't afford to take the same path I would.

IMO

Good post! I'm always a little skeptical when LE comes out in the public and says the family is not cooperating in the very beginning. What is the purpose of making that statement? All it does is inflame the public via the media. It does not help to find the child, and it certainly draws a line in the sand between LE and the parents. They're using the media to further their case against the mother, rather than focusing on finding the baby. Kind of putting the cart before the horse, IMO.

 

[2goldfish]

Yes it really it is different there compared to suburban America and I fully understand coming from where you are and being where you came from if that makes sense. You see it's not just the width of the streets (I was initially daunted by the VASTNESS and number of lanes on 'ordinary' American streets) I also had to take into account, when crossing one of these vast streets, that traffic was coming at me from the opposite direction to what I had had ingrained in me since childhood. Even after 5 years of living here my head still sometimes turns to look the wrong way so I'm hyper-aware when my two sons (28 and 23) are visiting from the UK that they are also programmed automatically to look the wrong way and I instinctively reach for their hands to steer them across the crosswalks.

oh, you are so right, I still look the "wrong" way here sometimes. to add to my handholding, my older son was an escape artist, I pretty much HAD to have a hand on him at all times...he's free of that now of course :floorlaugh: but obviously handholding past a certain age depends on how the child is, as with my runner it went on longer than it would have otherwise (as I said til about age 8) and my experience with him, coupled with my suspicion of the narrow streets here, is what will contribute to me handholding my 4yo for another few years....even though he isnt a runner, he gets toooo close to the street for my liking....

plus the fact that we walk here FAR more often than ever in life in the US.

on topic(ish) I never was saying I was judging DB for that pic but maybe people thought I was, I was merely asking what was normal for normal people since I clearly am not one

 

[luckyme]

Does anyone think that irwins went into hiding because maybe on Monday we might know some of the test results? When the house was being searched on thursday i think someone posted that investigators would have ten days to release results. I wish i knew where the link was. So THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY.:seeya:

 

[cluciano63]

Good post! I'm always a little skeptical when LE comes out in the public and says the family is not cooperating in the very beginning. What is the purpose of making that statement? All it does is inflame the public via the media. It does not help to find the child, and it certainly draws a line in the sand between LE and the parents. They're using the media to further their case against the mother, rather than focusing on finding the baby. Kind of putting the cart before the horse, IMO.

I don't agree, the cart in this case is trying to get past the immediate household and move on to the outside world; they don't seem to be able to get past this particular cart...and it has not stopped LE from looking for Lisa in any event.

 

[NancyA]

oh, you are so right, I still look the "wrong" way here sometimes. to add to my handholding, my older son was an escape artist, I pretty much HAD to have a hand on him at all times...he's free of that now of course :floorlaugh: but obviously handholding past a certain age depends on how the child is, as with my runner it went on longer than it would have otherwise (as I said til about age 8) and my experience with him, coupled with my suspicion of the narrow streets here, is what will contribute to me handholding my 4yo for another few years....even though he isnt a runner, he gets toooo close to the street for my liking....

plus the fact that we walk here FAR more often than ever in life in the US.

on topic(ish) I never was saying I was judging DB for that pic but maybe people thought I was, I was merely asking what was normal for normal people since I clearly am not one

BBM - don't get me started on how lazy I've become about driving instead of walking since coming to live here. :blushing:

And back on the topic of that picture, I agree I see it as completely innocuous. That said, in defense of vlpate who originally posted it as one part of a comprehensive and well-thought out rebuttal (a style of considered response very conducive to discussion that I much appreciate btw) to several points I raised in a post of my own, I must admit to have been guilty, in other cases where I had strong suspicions of a potential perp, of perhaps allowing my prejudices to lead me to read far too much into every little thing some potential perps do and say.

 

[curiousc]

In Da Middle, I assume you do live in the vicinity of the house that DB and JI were staying, am I correct? Have you been by the house in the last day?

 

[In da Middle]

In Da Middle, I assume you do live in the vicinity of the house that DB and JI were staying, am I correct? Have you been by the house in the last day?

I go past that house nearly everyday, multiple times a day.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Can anyone confirm that the Baby Lisa posters in front of the Walrond home have been taken down?

 

[curiousc]

I go past that house nearly everyday, multiple times a day.

If you don't mind me asking, can you confirm if all the signs have been taken down? Thank you!

ETA: At the relative's house.

 

[In da Middle]

If you don't mind me asking, can you confirm if all the signs have been taken down? Thank you!

Everything is still up at Lister.

 

[curiousc]

Everything is still up at Lister.

Actually, I meant where the family had been staying...the relative's house? Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post above

 

[In da Middle]

Actually, I meant where the family had been staying...the relative's house? Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post above

Who is stating that things were taken down and taken down by whom?

 

[curiousc]

Who is stating that things were taken down and taken down by whom?

There have been rumblings but I am not here to start rumors, that's why I thought I would ask you for confirmation as to the signs at the relative's house. If you said yes or no, then that would be my confirmation as I trust what you say

 

[Bon]

While the mother's own admissions have made me suspicious of her, I can't blame her in the least for wanting an attorney. False confessions can and do happen.

That said, we've already seen inconsistent statements from DB and an eleventh hour admission that she was in fact very drunk the night Lisa was "kidnapped".

What truly concerns me is DB's and JI's seeming reluctance to meet with LE at all for 3 weeks. If my child was missing, I'd be at the police station with my attorney every morning trying to cooperate as much as possible. Every minute is precious in the search for a missing child.[/QUOTE]

This is what makes me believe they already know Lisa is no longer with us....

 

[SilkySifaka]

While the mother's own admissions have made me suspicious of her, I can't blame her in the least for wanting an attorney. False confessions can and do happen.

That said, we've already seen inconsistent statements from DB and an eleventh hour admission that she was in fact very drunk the night Lisa was "kidnapped".

What truly concerns me is DB's and JI's seeming reluctance to meet with LE at all for 3 weeks. If my child was missing, I'd be at the police station with my attorney every morning trying to cooperate as much as possible. Every minute is precious in the search for a missing child.[/QUOTE]

This is what makes me believe they already know Lisa is no longer with us....

I don't agree really. I wouldn't be sitting down for interviews if all they were doing was accusing me of killing my baby. Once, twice, even 5 times but after that it would be clear to me they were not interested in facts (remember I know I am innocent) but only in pinning it on me rather than finding my baby.

I would probably just give up actually. Not talk to LE and give up hope of finding her because in mye eyes they don't care about looking for her or whoever has her. And depending on what sort of thought process someone has, they could also believe she is dead. Mom is on anti anxiety meds, actually an anti depressant that can be prescribed for depression as well, and it would seem to me that after they started being accusatory...well i would just blame myself and "know" she was dead because LE said she was (even if the concepts don't logically follow, by asking her where she hid the body it "says" they believe she is dead). Imagine being distraught, always looking on the dark side of things naturally and being told by the very people whom are meant to find your baby...that she is dead?

Cooperate? more likely to commit me and if I wasn't committed I probably should be. I would see zero purpose to talking to LE just to hear how I killed my baby when I didn't.

ETA, she is also ripe for blaming herself for the death whether she actually is involved or not. A blackout drinking binge..most would blame themselves.

 

[Velouria]

I don't agree really. I wouldn't be sitting down for interviews if all they were doing was accusing me of killing my baby. Once, twice, even 5 times but after that it would be clear to me they were not interested in facts (remember I know I am innocent) but only in pinning it on me rather than finding my baby.

I would probably just give up actually. Not talk to LE and give up hope of finding her because in mye eyes they don't care about looking for her or whoever has her. And depending on what sort of thought process someone has, they could also believe she is dead. Mom is on anti anxiety meds, actually an anti depressant that can be prescribed for depression as well, and it would seem to me that after they started being accusatory...well i would just blame myself and "know" she was dead because LE said she was (even if the concepts don't logically follow, by asking her where she hid the body it "says" they believe she is dead). Imagine being distraught, always looking on the dark side of things naturally and being told by the very people whom are meant to find your baby...that she is dead?

Cooperate? more likely to commit me and if I wasn't committed I probably should be.

I certainly respect your right to disagree, but as a mother I cannot understand putting your own interests before finding your missing baby. And IMO, that's precisely what DB is doing.

She should have come clean with the facts about her alcohol consumption immediately, but instead she complained of LE's accusations that she could not fill in the missing gaps in her story. Well, if we are to believe her revised account, then it's no wonder LE found discrepancies in her timeline.

No, I'm not in her shoes, but there's no way I would just give up if I thought my child was out there - lost, hurt, scared, kidnapped, whatever!

If I truly thought that someone had kidnapped and or killed my child, then I would never give up until the person responsible had been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Sorry, but I just don't see any real effort from these parents to find their child. It's all about CYA.

 

[justamommy]

I certainly respect your right to disagree, but as a mother I cannot understand putting your own interests before finding your missing baby. And IMO, that's precisely what DB is doing.

She should have come clean with the facts about her alcohol consumption immediately, but instead she complained of LE's accusations that she could not fill in the missing gaps in her story. Well, if we are to believe her revised account, then it's no wonder LE found discrepancies in her timeline.

No, I'm not in her shoes, but there's no way I would just give up if I thought my child was out there - lost, hurt, scared, kidnapped, whatever!

If I truly thought that someone had kidnapped and or killed my child, then I would never give up until the person responsible had been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Sorry, but I just don't see any real effort from these parents to find their child. It's all about CYA.

How do we know she lied to LE about drinking? Has LE released a statement?

 

[justamommy]

How do we know she lied to LE about drinking? Has LE released a statement?

This is what I talked about in a previous post. When things like this are stated as fact, they should be backed up by evidence. If it is not backed up by a statement from LE then it is rumor. Do you have a link to a statement made be LE regarding her drinking? I would love to read/watch it if you do.:banghead:

 

[Abby Normal]

BBM

Maybe they have. Perhaps the other questions LE has asked them are, 'Where did you hide the body? Which one of you actually killed her? Where is Lisa?' and if they are innocent, then they truly don't know. But if LE doesn't believe them, then to LE, the parents aren't cooperating fully. I have utmost respect for LE, but in my experience, they'll obfuscate the truth in the media to put pressure on the person they think is guilty. So when LE says the parents aren't helping them with the investigation, maybe the subtext is: the parents aren't telling us where the body is, etc.

That said, I'd do whatever LE wanted, because if someone snatched my baby that would be my worst nightmare. Everything after that, including LE accusing me, would just be unpleasant. Then again, they have two other children to think about and can't afford to take the same path I would.

IMO

This is what O'Brien said, he was the attorney that went with them to the October 8 interrogation. He is a professor of law, not some street hack. He said (paraphrased) that to LE "full cooperation" equals a signed confession. He felt they were very heavy handed as well. Young himself said (again paraphrased) that they are helping and answering questions, just not the specific/vital questions that need answering.

Which means they are talking, there are just certain areas that they are refusing the answer. If they are guilty, then of course they wouldn't answer those questions, and if they are innocent, then they CAN'T answer those questions.

I posted a lengthier version of this before, but on Wednesday(6th) Young called them "Very Cooperative" and on Thursday(7th) they were uncooperative. Then on the 8th they sat down for another interrogation with O'Brien.

I don't know the truth, but I do think that it's not as clear and honest as it appears on the outside. They aren't just "not talking" or "not cooperating", it's a grayer area IMO.

ETA timeline details
Tuesday: family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.
Wednesday: 9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.
Thursday:
~Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.
~the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.---suspects all cleared
~Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Then of course we have the October 8th (Saturday) interview with O'Brien present. Then on Oct 25 we have Young saying that they are talking, just not to their satisfaction, which is vague. (link in post below)