10/28/11 Private Investigator Returns, Baby Lisas Family Leaves

[Abby Normal]

IMO, being an educated person has nothing to do with doing the right thing for your child, and their well-being.

The truth is the truth, it doesn't change based on how many years of school you have attended.

I agree to an extent, as far as doing right by your child.

But I do think being educated (and I don't automatically mean college) can effect the way your project yourself, and thus how you are perceived.

It was just a thought, pondering what makes "model" behavior and what doesn't. I didn't put a lot of contemplation, merit or judgment into it. Just fwiw.

 

[vlpate]

Marc Klaas was NEVER a suspect. There were 2 witnesses (Polly's little friends on a sleepover) and they clearly saw Richard Davis, the kidnapper. Within minutes LE knew that it was Marc Klaas was not the man.

Of course they looked at him, then they checked his story, verified his info and cleared him, but he was never a suspect.

DB and JI are not suspects. Marc Klaas suffered horribly and went through living hell during the trial of Davis - enough hell for a lifetime. I say we leave him out of this...JMO.

 

[yllek]

Marc Klaas was NEVER a suspect. There were 2 witnesses (Polly's little friends on a sleepover) and they clearly saw Richard Davis, the kidnapper. Within minutes LE knew that it was Marc Klaas was not the man.

Of course they looked at him, then they checked his story, verified his info and cleared him, but he was never a suspect.

Again, Marc was never officially labeled a suspect, just like Debbi and Jeremy have not been labeled suspects. Just because the man who took Polly clearly wasn't Marc, does not mean that a prime consideration of LE would be an abduction arranged by a non-custodial parent. Also, Polly's mom not hearing the incident from within the house was certainly, imo, something LE would have wanted to check out immediately (and did). The point is, LE wanted answers, they wanted LDTs on the parents right away, they wanted follow-up interviews, they likely interviewed Marc and his ex separately... Marc and his ex-wife pushed to make it all happen as quickly as possible. While they weren't named as suspects, they were "cleared" (meaning they were considered or suspected, as parents always are when a child is taken from the home, and they worked with LE to move in another direction).

 

[Karmaa]

The parents are not suspects either.

Mark Klaas told the truth and passed a polygraph, that is why he wasn't a suspect. By Mark Klaas cooperating, LE was able to do their jobs and catch the person who murdered Polly!

All person's related to Lisa should do the same!

Boy this conversation has gotten all twisted out of shape. I was responding to a poster who said that Marc Klaas was a suspect in Polly's murder. I never said that Lisa's parents are suspects. But that post was off track too, since the ORIGINAL conversation was about what Klaas says parents of missing children should do, and I pointed out that he was never a suspect, so he may not really understand what it's like to have a kidnapped child and be accused of doing it.

AND Marc was not eliminated because he took a poly. He was eliminated because there were two little girls who saw what happened, and knew it was not Marc who took Polly.

 

[Abby Normal]

Two were in the US - and both are still questionable, in my mind. We have a great justice system, but it is not perfect. Two out of 100 years of trials ain't bad. I feel like the system errs the opposite way - I think too many parents have gotten away with murder. Way too many.

7. Julie Rea Harper - overturned due to a confession by Tommy Lynn Sells - he's made many false confessions. He recanted his confession in this case and then confessed again. His initial confession came after the author of his life story, and friend, wrote him about a 20/20 program on the Julie Rea Harper case - she thought he would find parts entertaining. Julie had been in a custody battle in the months that preceded the murder. I hope she is innocent, but I'm still not buying it.

I love number 9, Lynn Dulac. Her conviction was overturned because the baby did not die from strangulation, but from a cocaine overdose. Well, that's different.

#10 - This guy takes his wife downstairs to a guy he doesn't know, a guy that turns out to be a serial killer, to give his wife an illegal abortion? He should have been hung, IMO.

Having said all that bull caca, I will say I am still amazed by the baby Azaria case. The simple fact that other campers heard the baby cry should have been enough...and yet it went on and on.

I agree. I feel a lot of confidence in our justice system. It's not perfect, but NO human justice system can be. I feel like in comparison to the ones made around the world, we're not doing too bad. We're doing our best at least.

Good post, lots of information I didn't know.

 

[AngelWings444]

I heard this attributed to Captain Young on one of the fox news updates so I am sorry I can't provide a link. I heard the same thing on subsequent update which was just a rehash of the original update. I didn't hear it directlly from the Captain and since it was not an interview or anything I saw on JJP or MK's segments, I doubt there is a video link to be found. I can only say that it's based on my memory so it's MOO.

Don't worry. I have the exact same memory and can't find the darn link. :waitasec: I wonder if someone has a link, to LE stating there are no attorney's allowed. :floorlaugh:

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I think they are answering all the questions. That's what they have been saying all along, and LE (pretty much) confirms it. I think LE is torqued because the parents said "enough" of the accusations, and they want another chance at them.

I would not let them interview me in the same situation, even if I was 100% innocent. I would be frantic about my baby, and I would be willing to answer any questions, but I would not agree to an interview without my lawyer. That is a constitutional right for a reason.

Maybe the first day or two the questions where completely focused on it being an abduction? Then LE found out about the call and inconsistencies in DB's story and started to ask "tough" questions?

And this "unrestricted"= no lawyer business.......is that fact? Because as you say it is a basic right.

 

[vlpate]

I'm curious, was Mark an educated man? I'm not saying this as way to make an excuse- just didn't follow his case. If he was an educated/worldly man would it explain how he was able to do things "correctly"?

And then there is Tim Miller. I didn't read his account either, but wasn't he proven innocent but admits to reacting entirely wrong?

It makes me wonder what "goes in" to the makings of a model parent vs those with lousy reactions.

ETA- ohh, saw that he most likely wasn't interrogated to the degree that the DB/JI couple have been. Well, that does make it easier to behave as expected. I'm sure there are good and bad examples though, and it does make me wonder what circumstances enable/disable "proper" reactions.

Unless you are a defense attorney, I don't think there's any sort of education that would prepare one for having a child kidnapped.

 

[Karmaa]

BEM: Trying to grieve? I thought they were trying to find their kidnapped daughter?

Grieving means "to have great sorrow". Of course the parents are grieving. Their baby has been kidnapped.

 

[MissJames]

I'm curious, was Mark an educated man? I'm not saying this as way to make an excuse- just didn't follow his case. If he was an educated/worldly man would it explain how he was able to do things "correctly"?

And then there is Tim Miller. I didn't read his account either, but wasn't he proven innocent but admits to reacting entirely wrong?

It makes me wonder what "goes in" to the makings of a model parent vs those with lousy reactions.

ETA- ohh, saw that he most likely wasn't interrogated to the degree that the DB/JI couple have been. Well, that does make it easier to behave as expected. I'm sure there are good and bad examples though, and it does make me wonder what circumstances enable/disable "proper" reactions.

Tim Miller was never accused of anything. He reported his teenage daughter missing ,but LE failed to look for her and considered her a runaway. Over a year later her remains were found and linked to a serial killer.
That's why Tim founded Texas Equisearch,to find the missing.

 

[AngelWings444]

I agree to an extent, as far as doing right by your child.

But I do think being educated (and I don't automatically mean college) can effect the way your project yourself, and thus how you are perceived.

It was just a thought, pondering what makes "model" behavior and what doesn't. I didn't put a lot of contemplation, merit or judgment into it. Just fwiw.

I wasn't talking about college. How you are perceived in life, is the manner in which you conduct yourself. No amount of education, can or will change who you are inside. There is no "model" behavior in a missing kids case, or anything in life. What I have always taught my kids, it's either right or it's wrong. Period. If you have to ask yourself whether it's right, then it's wrong.

 

[Abby Normal]

Thanks, friends. That's why I'm asking questions, I'm fully aware this isn't an area I have a lot of experience or knowledge in. Your answers are appreciated

 

[Karmaa]

Maybe the first day or two the questions where completely focused on it being an abduction? Then LE found out about the call and inconsistencies in DB's story and started to ask "tough" questions?

And this "unrestricted"= no lawyer business.......is that fact? Because as you say it is a basic right.

Well, that's the whole problem with this case. No one knows what Debbie told LE at the beginning or if there WERE inconsistencies. But based on the dozens of cases that I know about, where the parents were suspects, charged and/or convicted wrongly, I don't think there has to be any inconsistency in the story. There just has to be no other suspect.

And yes - unrestricted definitely means without representation. The police want them alone because a lawyer will get them out before they can get confused enough to say the wrong thing - innocent or not.

 

[Abby Normal]

Unless you are a defense attorney, I don't think there's any sort of education that would prepare one for having a child kidnapped.

I wasn't talking about college. How you are perceived in life, is the manner in which you conduct yourself. No amount of education, can or will change who you are inside. There is no "model" behavior in a missing kids case, or anything in life. What I have always taught my kids, it's either right or it's wrong. Period. If you have to ask yourself whether it's right, then it's wrong.

I agree completely, actually that's a large part of why i posed the question to someone who claimed that Klaas was a model of how a parent should react. It didn't come out of thin air, I was attempting to understand their position and hear more about what it took to be a model parent.

IMO parents who are innocent and guilty react in a variety of ways, because that's human nature.

But I asked to hear more before because it wasn't something I had contemplated enough to feel I had logical counter argument.

 

[menmo]

With all due respect we don't know that Lisa was kidnapped. At least I don't. All I know is she is not with her parents.
I believed in these parents in the beginning, then changed to sit on the fence with my feet dangling over, to now all signs are pointing me to possible guilt. They need to put it all out there for LE. No matter what they might have done that night, cheating, huffing paint, smoking weed, or smoking crack, whatever it is just spill it already. The attorneys work for them, they (JI & DB) ultimately call the shots and I blame them and them only for the lack of good and complete information to LE.

JMO

 

[AngelWings444]

Well, that's the whole problem with this case. No one knows what Debbie told LE at the beginning or if there WERE inconsistencies. But based on the dozens of cases that I know about, where the parents were suspects, charged and/or convicted wrongly, I don't think there has to be any inconsistency in the story. There just has to be no other suspect.

And yes - unrestricted definitely means without representation. The police want them alone because a lawyer will get them out before they can get confused enough to say the wrong thing - innocent or not.

LE is not asking to have the parents be interviewed without representation. If you have a link to state that they are insisting on this, please provide it. I have never heard of a person, who has an attorney, be asked to come in without their lawyer. Just because DB's hired guns are stating this as fact, doesn't mean it's so. DB has been inconsistent in the media, who knows whether or not she was with LE, only her and LE know. Maybe that is what LE wants to clear up? Lisa's parents are not suspects, have fine representation, what in the world could be the hold up on finding their daughter?

Wonder what the excuse de jour, will be tomorrow? Poor little Lisa. :furious:

 

[AngelWings444]

I agree completely, actually that's a large part of why i posed the question to someone who claimed that Klaas was a model of how a parent should react. It didn't come out of thin air, I was attempting to understand their position and hear more about what it took to be a model parent.

IMO parents who are innocent and guilty react in a variety of ways, because that's human nature.

But I asked to hear more before because it wasn't something I had contemplated enough to feel I had logical counter argument.

There isn't a model parent in a kidnapping or missing child case. I never said, or have I heard others say Mark Klaas was a "model" parent. He just did the right thing, like most of us would.

 

[justamommy]

When the parents (and the boys) were intially interviewed, the shifting timeline and many of the conflicting details were not known to the public. I don't know if these inconsistencies were known to LE at that time, but my best guess is that at least some pertinent information came out afterwards. I am basing that on the subsequent public statements of the parents. No wonder LE wants to reinterview the principle witnesses. If the parents are innocent, there is a chance that this baby is alive, and every day that the parents refuse the interviews that could clear them and refocus the resources of this investigation lessens the chance that the baby will ever be found. LE has stated that they are not demanding interviews without the presence of attorneys so the only conclusion I can draw is that the parents are motivated by self interest and not the desire to find their child. All MOO.

I heard or saw this as well. Short is the one who said they were demanding interviews without their attorney present.

It's the same old tactics, different missing baby/child. Once the family lawyers up, they complain about the cops not being fair in the interviews, they complain LE is not keeping them informed, they complain LE is not doing their job by looking elsewhere. Meanwhile, a baby is either being held by a stranger, or is dead and rotting away, along with the evidence.

Defense attorney's dream, no evidence, no cause of death. Stall, stall, stall.

IMO, of course.

A link for what? Do you have access to google? It might take less time to google whatever it is you are wondering about.

Let me know what part of my post you are referring to. Thanks.

In Deoneta's post it said LE had stated that they are not demanding interviews without the presence of attorneys. You replied to that post saying you had heard or saw that too. I am just trying to find out if that is a fact. I can't find anything that shows LE has come out and said that. I am very curious to know if they did. In response to your google question yes I have googled this subject and have had no luck finding that statement from LE. Thanks

 

[MissJames]

Well, that's the whole problem with this case. No one knows what Debbie told LE at the beginning or if there WERE inconsistencies. But based on the dozens of cases that I know about, where the parents were suspects, charged and/or convicted wrongly, I don't think there has to be any inconsistency in the story. There just has to be no other suspect.

And yes - unrestricted definitely means without re.presentation. The police want them alone because a lawyer will get them out before they can get confused enough to say the wrong thing - innocent or not.

BBM
I believe unrestricted means no questions are off limits. Having a lawyer present to aid you ,is fundamental in our justice system. I don't think LE can ask you to forgo having your lawyer present. Are you stating that as a fact,or your opinion of what unrestricted means?

Can you please list the dozens of cases that you know of where the parents were charged and /or wrongly convicted? Other than baby Sabrina I'm just not recalling any and could use a cheat sheet.
Thanks! :seeya:

 

[Abby Normal]

There isn't a model parent in a kidnapping or missing child case. I never said, or have I heard others say Mark Klaas was a "model" parent. He just did the right thing, like most of us would.

I never remember to look at WHOM I'm quoting, but I could swear that person I was quoting said that MK was a model parent in his reaction. If I misinterpreted your words anywhere, my sincerest apologies