10 April 2010: Cache Valley residents organizing search for Susan Powell

[dovebar]

Have they released any info about his cell phone pings?

About that search area, I would think they'd HAVE to search it first, to prove they had, because Josh claims that's where they went. It is also accessible to the home. It's not, however, "woods." And not very far considering how long he was gone.

 

[grayjay]

Have they released any info about his cell phone pings?

About that search area, I would think they'd HAVE to search it first, to prove they had, because Josh claims that's where they went. It is also accessible to the home. It's not, however, "woods." And not very far considering how long he was gone.

No info on the pings, but IIRC early on there were comments about the data being lacking. I've been thinking that LE is searching in Tooele County by reason of the evidence they do have.

If Josh can lie to LE, what says he couldn't tell a 4 year old what he wanted repeated. They can be amazing little parrots and he had to be aware of that.

I've explored around a lot of abandoned mines and caves and find them utterly fascinating as well as toxic. It makes sense that they'd want to explore them, and that's not work for the general public. I think they know exactly what they're doing.

 

[AlexisFresca]

No info on the pings, but IIRC early on there were comments about the data being lacking. I've been thinking that LE is searching in Tooele County by reason of the evidence they do have.

If Josh can lie to LE, what says he couldn't tell a 4 year old what he wanted repeated. They can be amazing little parrots and he had to be aware of that.

I've explored around a lot of abandoned mines and caves and find them utterly fascinating as well as toxic. It makes sense that they'd want to explore them, and that's not work for the general public. I think they know exactly what they're doing.

That brings something else to mind. We have heard that Josh undermined Susan's parenting time and time again. So even though we have heard that Susan was close to her boys, we also don't know how close they were to Josh and if they preferred Josh to Susan or not. If he told the boys that 'Mommy is mean for putting you to bed', God only knows what else he has been telling them. Its easy to see how he can easily manipulate them to his advantage.

While it was a bit comforting (in a way) to read that the boys were sad when reporters were at the Powell house the day of the vigil, one has to wonder if they are beginning to second guess what Josh told them about 'Bad Mommy/Mean Mommy'. And when I say comforting as I said above, I mean it in the sense that imo its a good sign that they miss her. I wish I could explain it better. I think to me it partially says they possibly aren't buying everything he is trying to sell them about mommy's whereabouts.

 

[grayjay]

That brings something else to mind. We have heard that Josh undermined Susan's parenting time and time again. So even though we have heard that Susan was close to her boys, we also don't know how close they were to Josh and if they preferred Josh to Susan or not. If he told the boys that 'Mommy is mean for putting you to bed', God only knows what else he has been telling them. Its easy to see how he can easily manipulate them to his advantage.

While it was a bit comforting (in a way) to read that the boys were sad when reporters were at the Powell house the day of the vigil, one has to wonder if they are beginning to second guess what Josh told them about 'Bad Mommy/Mean Mommy'. And when I say comforting as I said above, I mean it in the sense that imo its a good sign that they miss her. I wish I could explain it better. I think to me it partially says they possibly aren't buying everything he is trying to sell them about mommy's whereabouts.

I don't remember the exact comments about preschool boys and their fathers from school, but they are trying to grow up to be men, not women, and by that very fact, if daddy doesn't respect women, they won't either. I think they'd tend to take dad's word as their gospel, even if mommy was the one that made them feel warm and safe.

 

[AlexisFresca]

I don't remember the exact comments about preschool boys and their fathers from school, but they are trying to grow up to be men, not women, and by that very fact, if daddy doesn't respect women, they won't either. I think they'd tend to take dad's word as their gospel, even if mommy was the one that made them feel warm and safe.

It would be intersting to see if there are statistics out there that would tell what percentage of children who grew up hating men or women were able to break that cycle and change that thought process. Sometimes as adults even, there are opportunities of healing with the resented parent and it can be learned that their previous beliefs (hate all men or hate all women) were not logical. Just curious, is all.

 

[hollyblue]

OK, the WVC PD think that area has been combed-through thoroughly. Certainly they must have other ideas based on the evidence they must have accumulated (like cell phone and credit card records). As the weather becomes more favorable for searching they should make some of that public to help -- I don't understand the need for complete secrecy. They wouldn't play their entire hand by naming a few probable areas, or possible types of areas (ravines near roads below 4500 ft, abandoned mine shafts, for example).

I'm thinking there was some element of truth when he said "south". I mean he may know there was evidence of him being south (buying gas in Lehi or something) and yet it is, of course, vague enough that it doesn't give away the actual location(s). Also we've heard that something Charlie said was they were in a wooded area. Southwest of SLC is generally not as wooded as southeast. If it was up a fairly lightly traveled canyon southeast of SLC, how far up would be limited by the ability of his van to navigate the road in snow, unplowed and/or unpaved conditions. How far south might be limited by how far he was willing to drive around at night with his kids and a body in the van.

I always remember the reporter asking him if he was in Moab. Always struck me strange.....like maybe the reporter had some info on that....but maybe not. I'm not familiar enough with the area...so this may be a natural question.

I've also thought about the area west of SLC--toward Reno.

 

[PickieChickie]

Susan Powell search has sheriff concerned​

by Scott Spjut

Park worries horde of volunteers in west desert could pose safety risks, destroy evidence

Tooele County Sheriff Frank Park has concerns about a mass search scheduled next month for a missing West Valley City woman, but he intends to aid searchers nonetheless.

On April 10, volunteers will gather in Utah’s West Desert to search for Susan Powell, who has been missing since early December. Powell’s husband, Joshua, claimed to have been camping with the couple’s two sons at Simpson Springs at the time of her disappearance.

A press release was sent out Tuesday morning through the Friends and Family of Susan Powell Facebook page, asking for volunteers in a coordinated effort to look for the 28-year-old mother of two. The search will be headquartered at the Simpson Springs campground and will go from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.

But Park has some reservations about possibly hundreds of volunteers descending upon the remote west desert location.

Continued at source: http://www.tooeletranscript.com/vie...heriff-concerned?instance=home_news_1st_right

My comment: I wonder if the Friends and Family of Susan Powell Facebook group has used the "Event" feature to enable people to RSVP for this event, post the event on their walls by clicking on "Share" as well as invite others to attend by clicking on "Invite people to come"?

 

[inquisitiveone]

:lipssealed: In light of the forthcomingness of the WVCPD :lipssealed:
I found this link to a forum with the police and fire chief on April 7 & 8:
http://www.wvc-ut.gov/index.aspx?NID=951:

There is even a link for suggested topics and questions:
http://www.wvc-ut.gov/forms.aspx?FID=160

There is supposedly a 20 minute question and answer session at the end of each forum
....wish I was nearer to West Valley, because I have a lot of questions!
:dj: I would love to see these two forums inundated with 'find Susan' supporters :dj:

:newbie:

 

[PickieChickie]

:lipssealed: In light of the forthcomingness of the WVCPD :lipssealed:
I found this link to a forum with the police and fire chief on April 7 & 8:
http://www.wvc-ut.gov/index.aspx?NID=951:

There is even a link for suggested topics and questions:
http://www.wvc-ut.gov/forms.aspx?FID=160

There is supposedly a 20 minute question and answer session at the end of each forum
....wish I was nearer to West Valley, because I have a lot of questions!
:dj: I would love to see these two forums inundated with 'find Susan' supporters :dj:

:newbie:

Rotflmbo at the "Questions for the Chief of Police"! I can imagine what sorts of questions very secure, brave people might ask! Lol!

"Which is your favorite donut shop?"

"Can YOU make a left turn right?"

"Can I get a ticket for steering with bare feet?"

"Why do you like to handcuff sex offenders?"

"Why are you always forcing people off the road then ordering them to spread their legs?"

"Have you taken a bite out of crime?"

 

[inquisitiveone]

:laughbig: Pickie Chickie that is hilarious :laughbig:

 

[RubyRed]

B]Searching for Susan Cox Powell: Precious time lost, Part 1 (Slideshow)
[/B]

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...or-Susan-Cox-Powell-Precious-time-lost-Part-1

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...coordinating-ground-search-with-police-Part-2

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...-Cox-Powell-Restrictions-for-searchers-Part-3


http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...r-Susan-Cox-Powell-What-searchers-need-Part-4

 

[RubyRed]

Searcher's perspective on what is needed

We need the police to give us area(s) they would like searched," Osborne said. "They do not have to release evidence or information on the case to us, but they do have information to significantly narrow down the search areas such as:

Cell pings from two different phones
Mileage on the rental vehicle
Type of rental vehicle (4WD, AWD, 2WD, truck, etc.)
Any internal GPS information on where Josh took the rental vehicle when he was gone all day
Location of any credit/debit card charges for gas, food, etc.
Information to narrow down location by dirt samples from shoes, vehicle carpets, undercarriage
Information from any witnesses including the oldest son, Charlie, as to what the areas looked like where they went
Information from those who know the couple as to where they like to go, camp, bird watch, rock hunt, etc.
I do have this now, but what Susan was last seen wearing

"

Police could either organize a massive volunteer search utilizing volunteers with cadaver dogs, or request assistance from a large volunteer search service like Texas Equusearch (TES)," Osborne said.

According to Osborne this organization utilizes drone planes to fly over both sides of trails, roads, taking high resolution video of each side of the road for viewing on computer monitors. http://texasequusearch.org/.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...r-Susan-Cox-Powell-What-searchers-need-Part-4

 

[RubyRed]

Restrictions for searchers

Linda Osborne, who has been searching for Susan through the winter, said, "With the information that has been publicly released by police on this case, we have to consider that Susan could be in at least 5 different states if she were transported by car or van: Nevada, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming or Arizona, based on mileage and the time Josh was gone the night and following day Susan went missing."

"

Now it seems logical to wait until the spring or summer when the snow melts," said FBI Profiler Clint Van Zandt. "Because of the vast area where people would need to search - possibly encompassing five states - it makes it very difficult for police to organize a ground search."

"

I also asked if they had checked residential security cameras for traffic out of the area of Susan's home that night when Josh left and after, in addition to any highway or business cameras in the area in case she had to walk away from the home for some reason since Josh had their only vehicle," she said.

"I've asked police if they can organize a search and provide us with locations they would like searched," Linda added. "It would only take one officer to handle the grid map of a search area and instruct volunteers on what to and not to do should they find anything."

Osborne said she got no response until about her third request and heard from them after several weeks stating that they don't need any help.

F

or example, she did not understand why posts she added to the Friends and Family of Susan Powell Facebook page with ideas to search for Susan were deleted and why she was banned from the site.

Osborne has since had her membership to Friends and Family of Susan Powell reinstated, presumably after site administration became aware of her good intentions in the help she was providing.

“Police presumably have evidence such as cell pings, witness statements, Susan's then 4-year old son, Charlie's, statement, location of any purchases, and any surveillance footage found to narrow down areas to search, and they have access to search dogs which considerably speed up the process, but there is also a chance that they do not have evidence they can release to volunteer searchers to help narrow down search locations. I do know that police have conducted dozens of searches over hundreds of miles in multiple areas," Osborne said.

The frustration for Osborne intensified, "If Susan had shelter and was able to make a fire she could have survived for quite some time using snow for hydration. I can't tell you how frustrating it was for me, knowing she could be alive out there, and not to be able to use any of the tools police, friends or family may have to help search for her."

One couple, who were friends with Susan and Josh when they were dating in Washington and who also moved to Utah, went on a road trip with the Powells and stopped to camp. Osborne asked the couple at least four times where they camped and, whatever their reasons, they did not provide her with the information. Osborne believes the information would have been a good starting point for ground searches.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...-Cox-Powell-Restrictions-for-searchers-Part-3

 

[RubyRed]

Searching for Susan Cox Powell: Hopes of coordinating ground search with police,

Why won't police coordinate ground search with citizens?

It has been asked repeatedly why police are not responding to citizens who are asking why no police-supported volunteer ground searches are being coordinated when volunteers have offered their equipment, time, and services to conduct a search.

Simply stated, the West Valley City Police does not support a volunteer ground search effort.

Tricia Griffith, Owner of True Crime Discussion Forum Websleuths.com, said, “Next to wanting to know what Josh’s part was in Susan’s disappearance, why the police won’t organize a search is the biggest question on everyone's mind. People from all over the world are perplexed as to why are they waiting so long.”

FBI Profiler Clint Van Zandt said Josh did not give an accurate statement of where he was, making it very difficult for police to conduct a ground search.

"An initial search is done in part in hopes of finding a live victim possibly tied up in the woods," said Van Zandt. "That opportunity was lost because police did not know where to look."

"We (Strategic Tactical Group LLC and STG Investigations) contacted West Valley City Police Dept in December and offered our assistance in a ground search," Willden said, "and were told that no search was scheduled at the time. From our understanding and standpoint, the more people you have help in a search, the more ground can be covered. "

I wish I could organize big searches but we just don’t know where to look," Kiirsi said. "The area is so impossibly huge—all of Utah and its vast wilderness areas, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, Arizona, and even farther—and without cooperation from Josh, we just don’t know where to start looking."

What West Valley City Police is Saying

West Valley City Police Captain Tom McLachlan told Examiner.com Wednesday, "The department has extensively searched the area where Josh claims he was the night Susan went missing. We don't publicize every time we go out and search. The department does not support volunteer ground search efforts. There's the possibility if evidence is found it could be tainted. We've spent thousands of hours searching. We've had a highly trained group doing broad air, ground, and underground searches."

The Bureau of Land Management, McLachlan said, mapped out mines in the area and if the mines are sealed, investigators were sure not to tamper with them.

We're talking about a very remote area where there are lots of hills. It's rocky and there are rattle snakes out there. It's very tough to get assistance if someone were to get hurt while they were searching. The area is adjacent to an army facility where nerve agents and explosives have been tested. It's a dumping ground that's trying to be cleaned up," McLachlan said.

Tooele County Sheriff Frank Parks offers assistance

Tooele County Sheriff Frank Parks told Examiner.com Friday afternoon, "The desert is an inhospitable place and there are a lot of dangers. But, if people are well-trained there shouldn't be a problem. My biggest concern is that if something evidentiary is discovered that searchers are trained in sequestering the potential evidence."

Parks said the Sheriff's Department can't take responsibility for the search, but that they'll be close at hand to help if needed.

It's hard to say anything negative when you're working with the hearts of people who care about Susan. We're a little concerned with the numbers. We've been told it would be anywhere from 200 to 2,000 people. But we'll provide phone numbers to dispatch and there's a medical helicopter that's used out here in the desert," Parks said.

Parks said that like other departments they've had their share of cutbacks. "It should be a very interesting day," he said.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...coordinating-ground-search-with-police-Part-2

 

[grayjay]

Excellent work, Linda and Examiner! I feel better about what's going on, after reading this article. I'm glad they're going to flip the cement.

I hadn't thought about the rattlesnakes and the ordnance out in the desert.

If they found any of a number of minerals in high concentration in the floor mat or wheel wells of the van, it would understandably narrow the search quite a bit. They'd have blinders on about everything else. I know I would think that way. To me, that's the best guess I'd have to explain what's been going on.

Chickie, could you maybe ask Linda if she's seen those white pickup trucks and she thinks that there are geologists helping in the search?

 

[PickieChickie]

Excellent work, Linda and Examiner! I feel better about what's going on, after reading this article. I'm glad they're going to flip the cement.

I hadn't thought about the rattlesnakes and the ordnance out in the desert.

If they found any of a number of minerals in high concentration in the floor mat or wheel wells of the van, it would understandably narrow the search quite a bit. They'd have blinders on about everything else. I know I would think that way. To me, that's the best guess I'd have to explain what's been going on.

Chickie, could you maybe ask Linda if she's seen those white pickup trucks and she thinks that there are geologists helping in the search?

You can leave your question as a comment to any of the articles. Linda reads them all and she will most likely answer. That way, all the readers of the column, including other reporters, the police, etc. will read her answer. I don't think there are that many people who read Websleuths, to be honest.

 

[RubyRed]

Searching for Susan Cox Powell:

Release of the following information could have elicited witness statements revealing a direction of travel, places Josh stopped, camped, or possibly disposed of Susan’s body:

• Photos of Josh Powell
• Photos of the family van
• The van's license number
• Clothing descriptions
• Other identifying information

Hundreds of people undoubtedly saw them on the highways that night and many probably saw them stop for food or gas," Osborne said. An immediate request for cell phone pings to get a direction of travel, contact with all local motels and camp sites."

"The word did not get out," Osborne added. "I contacted their friends asking for a license plate and vehicle description but they would not release the information to me."

There were questions as to why Susan's friends and family were not more forthcoming with information.

[

B]The reasons are two-fold.[/B] First, family and those closest to a potential victim are almost always asked by police to withhold certain information from the public as that information could hinder their investigation, potentially allowing a guilty person go free.

Susan's friends and family, who, at one time, supported Josh and believed in his innocence, now question the possibility he could have in some way been involved.

It has taken time for them to piece together a very complex puzzle, leaving them with questions about Josh's involvement in Susan's disappearance.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...or-Susan-Cox-Powell-Precious-time-lost-Part-1

 

[Curious Me]

Bumping this with a prayer that Susan Powell is found soon.

 

[grayjay]

....ask Linda if she's seen those white pickup trucks and she thinks that there are geologists helping in the search?

You can leave your question as a comment to any of the articles. Linda reads them all and she will most likely answer. That way, all the readers of the column, including other reporters, the police, etc. will read her answer. I don't think there are that many people who read Websleuths, to be honest.

I saw that HollyHawk is here on WS, so I'm reposting the question for her and sincerely hoping WS is the go-to place when it isn't just about friends supporting each other in their grief, because for me FaceBook is not happening.

 

[PickieChickie]

US Bureau of Land Management wonders where everyone will park​

The BLM's concerns: Where are all those searchers going to park? Even if they come four to a car, two thousand searchers would mean 500 cars in a place that can't handle a fraction of that number. What's more, taking any vehicle off the roads is strictly forbidden.

in fact, Sheriff Park said individual searchers are already putting a strain on his resources. He said hardly a weekend goes by with a handful of tips coming in about suspicious mounds. "They've found a lot of interesting things, but nothing to do with Susan Powell." In many cases, he said people have found the remote grave of a family pet.

CONTINUED AT SOURCE: http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/sto...-for-Susan-Powell/4bqHjEihG0K1aYZpBxo0iQ.cspx

MY SUGGESTION: Mr. Cox, Susan Cox Powell's father, can use some of the donation money he's received to rent some buses!