17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #20

[Karmady]

Yes but why does it have to be death, even if the perpetrator has a gun or a deadly weapon and you know LE won't be there in time. What's wrong with them becoming incapacitated, until LE gets there. I've seen people hit with pepper spray guns and they don't know up from down. I'm just saying there are other ways than just firing a bullet and killing them. That should be the absolute last result.

I have no problem with ANYONE shooting to kill if a criminal is armed with a deadly weapon. I truly mean no offense, but I can't even imagine the mindset that says it's okay for a criminal to bring a gun to a crime and an innocent person is supposed to have to try to stop them by shooting them in the foot or with pepper spray so they can live, not to mention having a chance at getting off with a wrist slap or entirely just to do it again. That gives the criminals all the power and that can lead to no good in an otherwise civilized society. Imo, we're already way too far in that direction already. Hey, if you don't want to potentially die, don't commit a crime with a gun or other deadly weapon. It's just that simple in my mind. Not saying it has anything to do with this case, though. jmo

 

[jaded cat]

If someone is holding a gun on you, you would spray them with pepper spray? If someone goes out with a gun to rob someone, they got the memo - what they are doing could get them killed. JMO

If someone is hitting you with their fists, would you shoot them? Isn't there a point where equal force comes into the equation? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight? Don't bring a gun to a fist fight?

 

[legalmania]

If someone is holding a gun on you, you would spray them with pepper spray? If someone goes out with a gun to rob someone, they got the memo - what they are doing could get them killed. JMO

If someone has a gun on me, it would be to late to pull out a weapon of any kind. At that point it would be begging for your life. If I had a chance yes pepper spray and then stun gun or rubber bullets. That would give me a chance to get the gun away from them run and wait for LE.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Richard Hornsby ‏ @RichardHornsby

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FYI: Seminole County Grand Jury has power to initiate investigation into #TrayvonMartin or Sanford PD without prosecutor's approval.

It really would be a better country if anyone picked for Grand Jury do the right thing and when that SA opens up his brief case and starts to talk just tell him to close it up and get out. Then start looking at the real crooks in their county or state or country.

Good article here.

http://www.etherzone.com/2009/stang041009.shtml

 

[Isabelle]

o/t I love Lewis Black lol!

I thought it was Roy Black. He was defense for John Goodman trial.

 

[legalmania]

If someone is hitting you with their fists, would you shoot them? Isn't there a point where equal force comes into the equation? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight? Don't bring a gun to a fist fight?

I just heard who is mostly using the Stand Your Ground Law drug dealers and people who have a violent criminal background, which most of them aren't even suppose to have a gun.

 

[Karmady]

I just heard who is mostly using the Stand Your Ground Law drug dealers and people who have a violent criminal background, which most of them aren't even suppose to have a gun.

Exactly. That's because they lived outside of prison committing crimes up to that point and then lived again to use the SYG defense. Doing away with SYG isn't going to make any difference to criminals. There are plenty of other defenses, too, as we well know. jmo

 

[vlpate]

I am glad the Martin family is being treated with respect. Certainly at this time in their life it means a lot to them!

I wish the same could be said for the Zimmerman family. My daughter is almost the same age as GZ - it would be horrible to hear someone like Jackson say she had chased someone down with a gun and murdered them in cold blood - not to mention the death threats and congress people standing in front of signs calling him a murderer and a racist vigilante - it would have been better to let the SA do her job. JMO:moo:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes but why does it have to be death, even if the perpetrator has a gun or a deadly weapon and you know LE won't be there in time. What's wrong with them becoming incapacitated, until LE gets there. I've seen people hit with pepper spray guns and they don't know up from down. I'm just saying there are other ways than just firing a bullet and killing them. That should be the absolute last result.

If you can come up with a less than lethal option, that will work 100% of the time when the opponent is armed with a gun, then I'll think about your idea.

 

[vlpate]

I just heard who is mostly using the Stand Your Ground Law drug dealers and people who have a violent criminal background, which most of them aren't even suppose to have a gun.

I'm not doubting you, just would like to know where you heard this so I can watch or look up more information. Were concealed handguns involved? Thanks!

 

[legalmania]

If you can come up with a less than lethal option, that will work 100% of the time when the opponent is armed with a gun, then I'll think about your idea.

Well if everyone had to use rubber bullets, stun guns or pepper spray, except LE. I think the death rate amongst young teens and kids would drop dramatically. We have other means lets use them.

 

[vlpate]

I thought it was Roy Black. He was defense for John Goodman trial.

:floorlaugh: All this time I was thinking the comedian and going :waitasec:

I heard JVM - or maybe someone else, compare Jose B to Roy Black - saying they were on the same level as defense attorneys. oooookie dokie

 

[vlpate]

Well if everyone had to use rubber bullets, stun guns or pepper spray, except LE. I think the death rate amongst young teens and kids would drop dramatically. We have other means lets use them.

Hard to do a drive-by with pepper spray. Just sayin'.

 

[SpriteGal]

Well if everyone had to use rubber bullets, stun guns or pepper spray, except LE. I think the death rate amongst young teens and kids would drop dramatically. We have other means lets use them.

It's great in theory, but a lot of these crimes are done with illegal guns anyways. IMO. It would work well for law following citizens but not for people who don't bother following the law anyway. IMO

 

[Karmady]

I'm not doubting you, just would like to know where you heard this so I can watch or look up more information. Were concealed handguns involved? Thanks!

If you google florida supreme court decisions regarding SYG you can read the full text of recent decisions. I know you've always wanted to do that lol. I haven't read a compilation, but I read a few cases tonight and some of them clearly involved criminal behavior. Which is not to say that the criminal *won* in every case.

I also learned that charges can be challenged pre-trial under SYG by its terms on a motion to dismiss, and that the Court (not the jury) makes the determination, which is unique to SYG afaik. So if GZ is charged, he will be able to make such a motion and the court should consider whether there is a genuine issue of material fact as to whether the SYG applies. If not, the charges must be dismissed. I imagine that's almost an impossible burden to meet, but it's an extra step in the defense that I wasn't aware of.

 

[vlpate]

If someone is hitting you with their fists, would you shoot them? Isn't there a point where equal force comes into the equation? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight? Don't bring a gun to a fist fight?

Yes, if someone had me pinned down and I thought there might be a chance that the next slam to the back of my head would leave my child and dogs without a mother, I would shoot them. The :butthead: has no business beating me, period.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Well if everyone had to use rubber bullets, stun guns or pepper spray, except LE. I think the death rate amongst young teens and kids would drop dramatically. We have other means lets use them.

Who's everyone? Are you saying everyone including criminals? If you can get all criminals to use rubber bullets,stun guns and pepper spray instead of live ammo when they commit their crimes, then I'm with you.

 

[Yoda]

If someone is hitting you with their fists, would you shoot them? Isn't there a point where equal force comes into the equation? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight? Don't bring a gun to a fist fight?

How does someone know when the other person is going to stop beating on them? How can anyone know how far the person attacking them will go? Will they stop beating you when you fall to the ground? When you are unconscious? When you are dead? There is no fair in a fight. If you are being attacked your goal is to save yourself. If you attack someone and are on top of them and have the upper hand do you think they will keep taking the beating instead of brandishing any weapon they have on them?
If GZ pulled out his gun while being punched on the ground and TM backed off and GZ still shot him then that is not self defense. But if GZ pulled out his gun and TM grabbed it and they struggled over it and TM was shot then I would consider that self defense. Mooo

 

[mikeysmommom]

I wish the same could be said for the Zimmerman family. My daughter is almost the same age as GZ - it would be horrible to hear someone like Jackson say she had chased someone down with a gun and murdered them in cold blood - not to mention the death threats and congress people standing in front of signs calling him a murderer and a racist vigilante - it would have been better to let the SA do her job. JMO:moo:

IMO That what is making me crazy about this ,it seems GZ is the devil even when all the details are unknown to us at this time.Yes a 17 yr old is dead but what if it was a struggle over the gun and GZ had no choice.If they struggled over the gun maybe it was self defense I just do not know.Would everyone be so upset if GZ was dead?Just because he carried a gun does not mean he was looking to shoot someone IMO with all the crime I wish I could carry a concealed weapon but not allowed where I live.

 

[jaded cat]

I wish the same could be said for the Zimmerman family. My daughter is almost the same age as GZ - it would be horrible to hear someone like Jackson say she had chased someone down with a gun and murdered them in cold blood - not to mention the death threats and congress people standing in front of signs calling him a murderer and a racist vigilante - it would have been better to let the SA do her job. JMO:moo:

I think the Zimmerman family would have been better served if they'd retained competent lawyers in the first place and kept their mouths shut. The first clown they sent to be on TV was awful. The letter the family sent was ridiculous. The new website is a major PR mistake. All they had to do was hold the high ground. Anyone who says "but some of my friends are black" doesn't realize how racist that sounds.

GZ did shoot and kill TM. That is a fact. It can also be considered murder and may well be in this case. So the signs were not without some basis in fact.

I'm afraid for the verdict and I'm afraid for the impact on this country, regardless of what the decision is. It should never have come to this.