17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #6

[Wise Old Owl]

Hi Kat :seeya: I'll try to help you - my answers are in blue.

I can't follow ws this week. We have an adult daughter visiting.

Quick question.

Does anyone have a link handy for the law concerning this (the right to defend oneself law in fl)

Its called Stand Your Ground and sorry, I don't have a link for it. There has been much discussion about it - some believe it really doesn't apply here

Also, did the shooter have a permit to carry a concealed loaded weapon?

Yes

What does Florida statute say about that please?

Again, sorry - don't know. Maybe someone else can weigh in on this.

Also, wasnt the shooter told to not follow this young man during a 911 call?

Yes. BUT they are saying that is wasn't a real police order - it was just a dispatcher and given only as a suggestion. :waitasec:

I only have an iPad at this moment and can't easily find the statutes as I could on my pc.

See, this is where I'm confused. I do understand other states have laws where you can defend yourself with lethal force if needed but I don't get how that law applies in the circumstance of a private citizen who is volunteering for neighborhood watch to carry a concealed loaded firearm and to continue to follow another individual after contacting 911 and being told that le did not need that watch volunteer to continue to follow the individual and to make contact with that individual and quite possibly confront that individual.

I agree with dr f. I am seeing people on Facebook posting status updates discussing this minors past. It's not relevant IMHO. Much like what dr. F pointed out about rape victims but also any other homicide victim we see here on ws. Defense attns like to create spin by digging up dirt on the victim. I'm not saying that others shouldn't discuss it, heck anyone can talk about any aspect they want. Just sharing my pov.

There ya go - HTH.

 

[m00c0w]

I don't have a problem searching for another news source and feel free to do the same.

I have been since that was first reported, and am finding nothing. It certainly seems like a slipup.

 

[Adrienne37]

Trayvon Martin's parents deny attack reports


Excerpt:

"I said to the parents, as much as they were hurting, they will try to make your son a junkie, a thief, an assaulter and everything else before this is all over because they've done it in every case we've fought," Mr Sharpton said before entering a town hall meeting at the Sanford Civic Center.

Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, said he was not seeking revenge.

"We're not asking for an eye for an eye. We're asking for justice, justice, justice," he said at the meeting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0327/martint.html

Thanks Quiche for these very uplifting words from Trayvon's parents. Praise the Lord that they have put whatever differences they had in the past to the side in order to seek justice for the brutal murder of their son. I pray to God every day that Zimmerman is arrested and punished for his crime. I'm glad that Sharpton explained to them what they are up against. It's pretty pathetic that even a woman who has been violated in the worst way possible is somehow to blame for it happening. The same thing is happening here. Zimmerman has no one to blame but himself for what he did to Trayvon. He was a very disturbed man who made 47 pages worth of 911 calls since 2004, 46 since January 2012 alone. Why the police weren't out there investigating him long before now is beyond me and trying to get to the bottom of what his particular problem was. Considering that he had a previous assault on a police officer and also domestic violence claims, he should have never been allowed to carry a concealed weapon. This man was a ticking time bomb and people better hope and pray that he's held accountable for his actions because next time it might happen to them or one of their loved ones.

I AM TRAYVON MARTIN. I STAND STRONG WITH TRAYVON'S FAMILY AND I WILL BE HERE UNTIL I SEE THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED!!!!

~jmo~

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Trayvon Martin's parents deny attack reports


Excerpt:

"I said to the parents, as much as they were hurting, they will try to make your son a junkie, a thief, an assaulter and everything else before this is all over because they've done it in every case we've fought," Mr Sharpton said before entering a town hall meeting at the Sanford Civic Center.

Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, said he was not seeking revenge.

"We're not asking for an eye for an eye. We're asking for justice, justice, justice," he said at the meeting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0327/martint.html

Interesting the parents can't seem to see how Sharpton is playing them. At any rate, if there are things that point to drug use/possession or theft or assault, which there obviously are, should they be ignored because it would hurt his parents? Does GZ not deserve to have the whole truth laid out? There are more people in this than just his family and a bunch of people donning hoodies making vague demands for "justice" as they deny the facts.imo

 

[HiHater]

There's a whole different set of rules when it comes to asking questions about a crime like that. I'm guessing the responding officers are trained to not ask questions, but to just secure the scene for major crimes and let them take over. As has been pointed out many times, it's possible to lead with questions. If he wasn't mirandized properly, it may have some bearing on the case.

I don't find it surprising that they didn't ask him any questions. JMO

I find it very surprising. "why" is not a leading question, it's open ended. A leading question would be "did you shoot him in self defense."

I think MOST suspects in this situation would have been mirandized and then taken to the station/jail. This is another indication that some sort of determination was made at the scene not to arrest him. IMO Homicide investigators can be dispatched to the scene...Zimmerman would have had to be mirandized at some point that night, it wouldn't matter when it was done....JMO

 

[HiHater]

Interesting the parents can't seem to see how Sharpton is playing them. At any rate, if there are things that point to drug use/possession or theft or assault, which there obviously are, should they be ignored because it would hurt his parents? Does GZ not deserve to have the whole truth laid out? There are more people in this than just his family and a bunch of people donning hoodies making vague demands for "justice" as they deny the facts.imo

Is there anything from THAT NIGHT that points to theft, assault, drug use, possession? Not IMO, so it's irrelevant.

I should clarify the assault part...He has no history of violence, and it obviously occurred that night. The other things...

 

[christee]

I have been since that was first reported, and am finding nothing. It certainly seems like a slipup.

Yes it very well could be a slip up. I hope ABC news has more info soon and clarifies their statement.

 

[jjenny]

I find it very surprising. "why" is not a leading question, it's open ended. A leading question would be "did you shoot him in self defense."

I think MOST suspects in this situation would have been mirandized and then taken to the station/jail. This is another indication that some sort of determination was made at the scene not to arrest him. IMO Homicide investigators can be dispatched to the scene...Zimmerman would have had to be mirandized at some point that night, it wouldn't matter when it was done....JMO

Aren't Miranda rights given to someone who is under arrest? Zimmerman was placed in some sort of "detention" but he wasn't arrested.

 

[HiHater]

Aren't Miranda rights given to someone who is under arrest? Zimmerman was placed in some sort of "detention" but he wasn't arrested.

It's the same thing. When a person is in a situation where they are not free to leave, they should be mirandized. I don't think George Zimmerman was necessarily free to leave at the outset of that incident.

Transporting him to the station could and probably would be considered a "seizure" under the 4th amendment. I'm not totally sure though. Detention/arrest same sort of thing...

JMO

 

[Kat]

Thanks dr. F!

I'll try to get up before she does tomorrow to read up on the law.

I did see a wiki entry for it but can't always trust wiki heh.

I have an issue with mr.z pursuing tm after having called 911 and reporting a suspicious individual while armed. It's le's job to locate and question an individual. If tm had approached mr. Z and mr. Z had felt in fear for his life or personal safety and had to use lethal force to defend himself ---then I wouldnt probably concern myself because that is the reason I think the law exists.

But to actively pursue an individual puts a different spin on this for me. To be honest, we haven't had a lot of local coverage on this here so I'm a bit behind.

 

[m00c0w]

Thanks Quiche for these very uplifting words from Trayvon's parents. Praise the Lord that they have put whatever differences they had in the past to the side in order to seek justice for the brutal murder of their son. I pray to God every day that Zimmerman is arrested and punished for his crime. I'm glad that Sharpton explained to them what they are up against. It's pretty pathetic that even a woman who has been violated in the worst way possible is somehow to blame for it happening. The same thing is happening here. Zimmerman has no one to blame but himself for what he did to Trayvon. He was a very disturbed man who made 47 pages worth of 911 calls since 2004, 46 since January 2012 alone. Why the police weren't out there investigating him long before now is beyond me and trying to get to the bottom of what his particular problem was. Considering that he had a previous assault on a police officer and also domestic violence claims, he should have never been allowed to carry a concealed weapon. This man was a ticking time bomb and people better hope and pray that he's held accountable for his actions because next time it might happen to them or one of their loved ones.

I AM TRAYVON MARTIN. I STAND STRONG WITH TRAYVON'S FAMILY AND I WILL BE HERE UNTIL I SEE THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED!!!!

~jmo~

BBM

He placed 46 911 calls. Yes, they took up 46 pages, but only because it was one call per page. All of these calls were from 2004 forward. That would be an average of 8 per year. 3 were placed in 2012, one being the call to report Martin. For someone acting in the position of a neighborhood watchman, I don't find that to be too egregious.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Is there anything from THAT NIGHT that points to theft, assault, drug use, possession? Not IMO, so it's irrelevant.

I should clarify the assault part...He has no history of violence, and it obviously occurred that night. The other things...

There is a police report and an eyewitness that certainly point to TM assaulting GZ that night. If GZ's past is relevant, so is TM's until we know who started the fight.

 

[m00c0w]

I find it very surprising. "why" is not a leading question, it's open ended. A leading question would be "did you shoot him in self defense."

I think MOST suspects in this situation would have been mirandized and then taken to the station/jail. This is another indication that some sort of determination was made at the scene not to arrest him. IMO Homicide investigators can be dispatched to the scene...Zimmerman would have had to be mirandized at some point that night, it wouldn't matter when it was done....JMO

IMO it would be better to be mirandized and tell your full story while in an interview room, being recorded. JMO

Also, it's common for police to not mirandize someone until they decide to actually start the interview. Anything they tell the police is still useable in a court if it was unprompted. The police mirandizing him at that point could have very well invoked the silent treatment.

 

[uvamerica]

I'm sorry if this sounds abrasive, but the evidence as it stands right now doesn't seem to point to "cold blood". Even if it was a series of extremely tragic and unfortunate events, I'm not sure it's evident that Zimmerman ever wanted to kill anyone.

Do you believe that Zimmerman set out that night intending to kill someone?

I think Zimmerman couldn't wait to use his gun, he's a wannabe cop with no authority. And thought the whole thing would "blow over"

http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-thought-trayvon-martin-killing-would-blow-over-details

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I find it very surprising. "why" is not a leading question, it's open ended. A leading question would be "did you shoot him in self defense."

I think MOST suspects in this situation would have been mirandized and then taken to the station/jail. This is another indication that some sort of determination was made at the scene not to arrest him. IMO Homicide investigators can be dispatched to the scene...Zimmerman would have had to be mirandized at some point that night, it wouldn't matter when it was done....JMO

Exactly and the only two things this officer heard Zimmerman say was I shot him and i was yelling for help and nobody would help me. The whole time Zimmerman was in his custody that was the only two things he said.

 

[rossva]

To me, that alone wouldn't really change my opinion. But if drugs show up on the tox report, that would affirm my opinion that Martin may have attacked Zimmerman.

And if he had, then what are the opinions here on what would have happened? Would that have changed things?

 

[Salem]

Wasn't it established several days ago that the Chicago ABC reporter made a mistake? Can any one please show me any link either confirming or denying this one reporters comment.

This is not a snary request. I honestly thought it had been resolved as a mistake by the reporter.

I believe you are right, Ross. The picture that was shown of the call log shows that 911 was called on 3/2/2012 - several days after Trayvon's death. It raised several questions because to date, Trayvon's phone has not been returned to his parents.

Salem

 

[m00c0w]

Exactly and the only two things this officer heard Zimmerman say was I shot him and i was yelling for help and nobody would help me. The whole time Zimmerman was in his custody that was the only two things he said.

If the officer started asking questions to be used in court, he would have to mirandize Zimmerman. A lot of times, people talk. They just talk. If they tell the officer something unprompted/unprovoked, it is still useable at trial even if they have not been read the Miranda warning. It is my understanding that it's not uncommon for police to use this tactic, as reading off one's rights will generally prompt them to exercise their right to remain silent. Many people think that what is said is unusable if their rights haven't been read. JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

To me, that alone wouldn't really change my opinion. But if drugs show up on the tox report, that would affirm my opinion that Martin may have attacked Zimmerman.

Yeah you know how those crazy pot heads just love to go around fighting.

 

[m00c0w]

I believe you are right, Ross. The picture that was shown of the call log shows that 911 was called on 3/2/2012 - several days after Trayvon's death. It raised several questions because to date, Trayvon's phone has not been returned to his parents.

Salem

Plus, that video was from the same day that Obama addressed the case publicly... Made the comment comparing Martin to his son. That was the middle of last week, I believe, so this recording is not anywhere near new.