17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[Isabelle]

I'm just not sure why these two females have an entirely different account from everyone else that was involved.

What was the distribution male to female? How many of each, do we know? Females are more detail oriented.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I had a talk with my 17-year-old niece tonight (love her so much) and I told her that if someone is ever following you in your gated community.... you run and run like hell. If that person happens to catch up with you, you fight and you make sure you slam the back of their head into the cement so hard that it knocks them out. We'll get you a good lawyer to fight the assault charges!

 

[Chris_Texas]

So when GZ got into his truck to go on an errand that night, it had noting to do with the NWP right?

He was acting under the laws that his CCW permit allowed when he took his gun with him.

And if he saw what he thought was a suspicious person, he could call that in to the police right?

And it was lawful for him to try and keep an eye on this person while the police where on the way right?

Obviously.

All of that carrying a gun and observing stuff is essentially legal. It becomes illegal when you ignore police instructions, creep and stalk after an unarmed juvenile, and then gun them down.

I find it amazing how the same people who give the shooter every benefit of the doubt, ever possible invented excuse, do not extend even a fraction of the same courtesy to the dead kid. Why?

The kid's crime was being black, wearing his hood up (in the rain, apparently), and possibly... POSSIBLY.. defending himself from a much larger man who he had every reason to believe was dangerous. And it turns out he was correct, GZ was not just dangerous, he was a killer.

 

[vlpate]

How did police not have probable cause? He shot an unarmed teenager! I don't believe they investigated as they were supposed to because it was a dead black teenager and a white adult shooter; SPD had probs with race issues so I am drawing that conclusion. jmo

Trayvon had been found with jewelry and a "break in" device in his back pack at school and the jewelry didn't belong to him, <modsnip>, and he defaced public property. He may very well have been casing houses that night. He could very well have been acting suspicious. It's not out of the realm of possibility. There were previous issues so I am drawing conclusions. JMO

If they took evidence that night I think they'd release it to make themselves not look so incompetent rather than leak GZ's statement... to me facts from investigation are more reliable than the shooter's unsubstantiated statement, jmo.

LE is not trying this case in the court of public opinion, the family of Trayvon is.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I wonder how far from the sidewalk was the body located? GZ's back was wet with grass and TM was reported as being face down in the grass. jmo

I still don't get the grass on the back of the jacket. If Trayvon had been on top of him, slamming his head against the concrete - then unless there was grass growing on the sidewalk how did he get the grass stains? I guess he could have fallen to where just his head was at the sidewalk. IDK. I kinda think when Trayvon punched him, he lost his balance and fell backward and hit his head on the sidewalk himself. Trayvon is now over him, looking down at him.

That's when GZ went for the gun and Trayvon saw it. The screaming starts - I have re-listened to the tape and I hear "NO!" "HELP" and a few "OH sh***" - which goes along with what Trayvon would have been yelling. GZ reaches up and grabs him by the arm wfith his free hand. Trayvon is screaming and trying to pull away.

Just as Trayvon jerks free, GZ pulls the trigger. Trayvon spins around and falls face down.

But that's just one of a million scenerios you can get with the little bit of info we have.

The autopsy report and forensics on the gun, GZ's shirt, and Travyon will help clear a lot of this up.


Hate this waiting............................



JMHO

 

[francie]

911 callers also said this not just police.

And another 911 caller said the man on top was in a white t-shirt. Trayvon was found dead in a hoodie. I don't think Trayvon was wearing a white t-shirt without the hoodie then put the hoodie back on during this fight for his life before he was killed. jmo.

 

[Sensei]

What was the distribution male to female? How many of each, do we know? Females are more detail oriented.

not to mention that these are the two people who admit that they looked out the window or door immediately after the shot. Others may have looked, but very possibly at various times, so these ladies might have been the only ones who saw anything before he stood up and started walking around.

 

[vlpate]

What was the distribution male to female? How many of each, do we know? Females are more detail oriented.

Listen to all the 911 tapes and you will see, both how many are male, how many are female, and how different these two women's accounts are from those callers.

 

[csziggy]

Plus if you zoom in near the ponds/lake it looks pretty swampy back there. Not a good place to be going at 7pm at night..

Yes, I grew up next to a lake like that - a really good place for alligators and water moccasins, though they would not be likely to be out in 60 degree rainy weather.

Depending on how early he left, Trayvon could have cut along the lakes on his way to the 7-Eleven, but in February by 7 PM it would be dark (sunset was at 6:22 EST - http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSFB/2012/2/26/DailyHistory.html )and I expect he'd stick to lighted roads.

 

[LambChop]

But when does "tailing" a "suspect" become stalking? Is stalking an act of aggression?

Private citizens are not suppose to tail suspects. You are suppose to report a suspect, that is it.....no matter who you are, are who your father just happens to be. How is a police officer suppose to control a scene when a private citizen is out there and LE has no idea who he is.... Once you've called it in it is an official police investigation. If you don't do as they "request" you have taken the control away from those you specifically called to do their job. So here you are.....out there trying to do their job for them when all they asked you to do is to cooperate. jmo

 

[Yoda]

At this time I'm inclined to believe George Zimmerman is a "wanna be" cop and a vigilante and he murdered an unarmed seventeen year old Trayvon Martin..JMHO

I'm still not sure either way with the new information of drugs, possible theft and assault, plus the fact that TM's timeline that day/night is odd, it could be possible that he was up to no good and attacked GZ. GZ's account could be 100% true.

 

[m00c0w]

Yep - but if there's a racial slur to them.................considering what the FBI is analyzing from the 911 tape...............well then maybe not. Does that now make Trayvon the aggressor and, therefore the self-defense claim valid?

Can anyone on the street walk up to you, call you a very offensive name and then when you punch them in the nose, they can shoot you dead? IDK about that.




JMHO

I would suggest not letting words cause you to start physical violence, no matter what the case.

 

[Isabelle]

But when does "tailing" a "suspect" become stalking? Is stalking an act of aggression?

I would consider stalking an act of aggression.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Obviously.

All of that carrying a gun and observing stuff is essentially legal. It becomes illegal when you ignore police instructions, creep and stalk after an unarmed juvenile, and then gun them down.

I find it amazing how the same people who give the shooter every benefit of the doubt, ever possible invented excuse, do not extend even a fraction of the same courtesy to the dead kid. Why?

The kid's crime was being black, wearing his hood up (in the rain, apparently), and possibly... POSSIBLY.. defending himself from a much larger man who he had every reason to believe was dangerous. And it turns out he was correct, GZ was not just dangerous, he was a killer.

BBM
You may not like the actions taken by GZ but they aren't necessarily illegal acts.

If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in thisinvestigation?
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you followinghim”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The calltaker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow.Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck tomeet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

(3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

 

[Sensei]

But when does "tailing" a "suspect" become stalking? Is stalking an act of aggression?

In my opinion, tailing becomes stalking when you have the stunningly bad judgement to follow someone that you yourself have told PD is suspicious, may be on drugs, and is holding something (we have to presume that he thought it was something hostile) in his hands, while carrying a loaded gun, instead of following excellent advice when told you don't need to do that.

 

[rotterdam]

Dontcha think he had a shirt on UNDER the jacket?


And why is it everybody makes a huge deal about TM wearing a hoodie on a warm FL summer night, but not one word has been said about Zimmerman wearing the infamous red jacket?


Maybe it wasn't as warm as everybody is trying to make it out to be? Maybe they BOTH felt a chill in the air?

Zimmerman had to hide the little bulge of his piece inside his waist band:blushing:

 

[m00c0w]

What was the distribution male to female? How many of each, do we know? Females are more detail oriented.

They have a fairly different account, and they contradict themselves as well. The things that differ aren't anything to do with small details, it's glaring things. Like Zimmerman being in a white shirt instead of the red jacket everyone else saw him in, two different stories with him standing and kneeling over the body when they first see him, whimpers/whines and not screams that everyone else heard and was recorded on the 911 tapes...

They also claim to have never heard any signs of a fight or struggle, but I also recognize that may be subjective.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, I grew up next to a lake like that - a really good place for alligators and water moccasins, though they would not be likely to be out in 60 degree rainy weather.

Depending on how early he left, Trayvon could have cut along the lakes on his way to the 7-Eleven, but in February by 7 PM it would be dark (sunset was at 6:22 EST - http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSFB/2012/2/26/DailyHistory.html )and I expect he'd stick to lighted roads.

I live in Northeastern NC and saw my first alligator in a canal near the Outer Banks last week. I never knew they had them here. He was a big sucker, too. Certainly hasn't missed any meals. People were so shocked they were stopping to take pictures. It was around 60 degrees that day. I haven't seen a snake yet but I hear they are around. Yuck.

 

[jjenny]

In my opinion, tailing becomes stalking when you have the stunningly bad judgement to follow someone that you yourself have told PD is suspicious, may be on drugs, and is holding something (we have to presume that he thought it was something hostile) in his hands, while carrying a loaded gun, instead of following excellent advice when told you don't need to do that.

But does his bad judgement then negate his right to self-defense (which is what he claims he did)?

 

[francie]

He was running "away", not "from" Zimmerman. Zimmerman was not "chasing" Trayvon, Trayvon was walking toward Zimmerman, checking him out, and the took off running.
That information is sketchy - anyone's guess, but Trayvon was shot in the chest, not in the back. He was laying face down.

But Zimmerman told 911 HE WAS FOLLOWING him. And Trayvon's girlfriend said she told him to run from this unknown man he said was following him. To me it's clear Zimmerman was absolutely in hot pursuit of Trayvon, he got from his truck to where he killed Trayvon in minutes per the 911 calls. jmo.