17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[HiHater]

With the DOJ involved, and with a new prosecutor... If it's such an open-and-shut case, why has an arrest not been made? Especially with the insane amounts of public pressure?

<mod snip> considering there has also been no announcement that charges will NOT be filed. It goes either way...

In order for the DOJ to get involved and for a new prosecutor to get involved, there had to have been something there. It may not be enough, but it's something...


JMO

 

[HiHater]

You're basing all of this off of what experience and firsthand knowledge of the emergency medical system and how police departments function? He was not under arrest; he could have left any any time. He was not being forcibly detained. He was voluntarily at the department to help investigators out. It is very likely that he signed a waiver that would have keep the city from being held liable as a result of untreated injuries. The police cannot compel someone to seek medial treatment; a paramedic cannot obligate someone to receive treatment. These are a lot of specious allegations that are grounded in little fact.

People ask why pictures aren't released. I would venture to say that it wouldn't do any good, because of people like you that already know 1000% that he's guilty. The pictures would just be used as a way to further crucify him, "Oh, those don't look too bad!" or people with their expert knowledge of such matters claiming he inflicted the injuries himself. He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing any more information than he has to.

How do you know that he was not "forcibly detained"?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

<mod snip> considering there has also been no announcement that charges will NOT be filed. It goes either way...

In order for the DOJ to get involved and for a new prosecutor to get involved, there had to have been something there. It may not be enough, but it's something...


JMO

The something, IMO, was the pressure. Wanting to please the public.

I'm sure the facts of the case have not changed.

JMO

 

[mck16]

If It were me, I would make him sign, I would have made the police sign a statment saying that they were aware that my suggestion was that he get medical treatment and that I had advised them all of the dangerous nature of head injuries.....If the completely refused transport after medical advice then he would be really dumb not to get a release, because he is responsible if something happens once he has initiated care.

The only way that I would NOT have them sign that relase would be if the injuries were of a superficial nature and I had no suspcion that anyone had had head trauma My own personal feeling is that the injuries could not have been much more than superficial if he went to the Police Station rather than to the hospital....a good thump on the head is usually preseaged by severe nausea, and a whopper of a headache, let alone how hard it is to talk with your face all swollen from a broken nose, a lot of times your eyes swell shut, and usually you can only breathe through your mouth till some swelling goes down, yet in this condition he wanted to go to the Police station instead of the Hospital....I am less than convinced..

Just wondering if the City would pay the emergency room bill for Zimmerman. jmo

 

[Sensei]

How do you know that he was not "forcibly detained"?

I have read several accounts that say that he was handcuffed and put in the back of the squad car where he recieved treatment for his injuries....handcuff signal forcible detention to me IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[wyome]

I'm not so sure anymore, especially after reading this:

This is the first time I've posted on this depressing incident.

I'm not completely pulling a 180 from my initial, outraged feelings about this case, but I'm certainly NO WHERE near where I was in the beginning.

A reminder to myself to be patient and wait for all accounts and facts to come to light before jumping to heated conclusions. Still awaiting much more detail and autopsy....

That said, from what I've learned thus far, it seems clear (right now) that Zimmerman was the initial aggressor. Stalking someone is going to produce a tremendous abount of fear (particularly in a male youth who is alone) and will induce flight or fight. Maybe TM initally started to run, then feeling a bit of confidence and bravdo talking to his girlfriend, decided to confront the guy??
Did he think he was a pedophile, hightening his rage? Determining Zimmerman was definitely alone and wanting to impress his girl, decide to take him out? I'm anxious to learn what the girlfriend's complete account of their conversation was.

 

[HiHater]

The something, IMO, was the pressure. Wanting to please the public.

I'm sure the facts of the case have not changed.

JMO

To please the public? Hmmm....

So now all of a sudden the feds care what the public thinks? What's going to happen when GZ is not charged or if he is charged and acquitted?

It makes more sense to shut something like this down at the gate, not let it run if there's nothing there. JMO

 

[LambChop]

He's certainly been characterized in the media as his brother. Why do you think that is, if not to gain an emotional advantage?

I'm not "sleuthing" the brother. I really couldn't care less about him. It's the entire story line I have fault with. I have asked numerous times where we got the story that he was going to 7-11 to get his "brother" candy, and have gotten no valid answers. It's just weird.

That is the story that was released. LE must know he went to 7-11 or it would not have been released. He may have had the receipt in his pocket. It was not his brother, only that TM considered him a younger brother because of his relationship with his dad's girlfriend. Has nothing to do with the investigation. LE is not investigating why TM went to 7-11 for candy and an ice tea. He did, it's been established as a fact. The reason you may not get answers is because some of us may feel it's headed for an TOS warning and possible shut down of the thread. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

How do you know that he was not "forcibly detained"?

Because that doesn't fit what happened here. You can either detain someone during what is essentially a terry stop, or you can let them go. Generally, a person cannot be "detained" for an unreasonable amount of time. For instance, someone detained at a traffic stop cannot be held for longer than it would reasonably take to write a citation (for instance, if they were waiting for a drug dog to show up). I believe this is 15-20 minutes according to the SCOTUS.

 

[Adrienne37]

WOW, what's a grill? Is that what they call all those gold teeth?

Yes it's called a grill. They are removable.

http://www.14kgoldteeth.com/

 

[Kimberlyd125]

To please the public? Hmmm....

So now all of a sudden the feds care what the public thinks? What's going to happen when GZ is not charged or if he is charged and acquitted?

It makes more sense to shut something like this down at the gate, not let it run if there's nothing there. JMO

If he is not charged, or charged and acquitted, then those screaming "arrest Zimmerman" should understand that Zimmerman was not to blame.

Them bringing in new people shows that fresh eyes looked at the evidence and also found no blame.

That's my point.

They want to make sure the public knows all the t's were crossed and I's dotted.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Yes it's called a grill. They are removable.

http://www.14kgoldteeth.com/

Thanks, I wasn't familiar with the term.

 

[mck16]

Yes it's called a grill. They are removable.

http://www.14kgoldteeth.com/

And very pricy if real gold.

 

[m00c0w]

That is the story that was released. LE must know he went to 7-11 or it would not have been released. He may have had the receipt in his pocket. It was not his brother, only that TM considered him a younger brother because of his relationship with his dad's girlfriend. Has nothing to do with the investigation. LE is not investigating why TM went to 7-11 for candy and an ice tea. He did, it's been established as a fact. The reason you may not get answers is because some of us may feel it's headed for an TOS warning and possible shut down of the thread. jmo

I'm not entirely sure how asking for evidence of something that's been widely claimed is unacceptable or irrelevant. I believe the family is the one that put this information out there, not the police. This is being widely reported as fact, and is certainly being used in an attempt to gain an emotional foothold in this case. The public is able to sympathize much more for someone walking back from the store after just picking up candy for his brother (as he has been continually characterized in the media). It all sounds contrived to me, and if it is, why? Why would the media cling on to this if not for the emotional appeal itself? Keep in mind that this is something that has been used to portray Martin in a certain light over and over again, but I haven't really seen any facts that support this premise.

 

[vlpate]

Thank you.. The article below mentions a 13 year old brother so was TM babysitting while they were out to dinner. Do we know anything about what the 13 year old knew, heard or thought about his brother not returning. Do we know at what time the father and the father's girlfriend came home that night?

This has always bothered me. If he did tell the 13 year old he was just going to get skittles for him, why would Tracy Martin say he didn't worry about Trayvon because he figured he just went to a movie with his Uncle?

After a few hours, wasn't someone becoming concerned? His father admitted to not calling around until the next day when he called Trayvon's phone. All of this is very murky.

 

[Emeralgem]

The resistance to arresting Zimmerman could be as simple as the fact that the Sunshine laws which would trigger the requirement to make everything public will not be triggered until there is an arrest IIRC. As long as they don't arrest that law doesn't apply
someone help me out here if I am wrong, I have to go research.

You are absolutely correct..And I know this because there has never been an arrest in the Haleigh Cummings case.. And since PCSO has said her case is NOW a homicide and not a cold case, LE doesn't have to release anything...

 

[LambChop]

I have read several accounts that say that he was handcuffed and put in the back of the squad car where he recieved treatment for his injuries....handcuff signal forcible detention to me IMO JMHO and stuff

SOP when there is a death involving a weapon. He had not given a statement yet. He was being "detained" and I'm sure the officer told him he was not under arrest and it was for his own protection as well. I would think they told him they would have to bring him in for a statement. Since he was not under arrest I'm sure he was free to call his father once the cuffs were removed. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

The resistance to arresting Zimmerman could be as simple as the fact that the Sunshine laws which would trigger the requirement to make everything public will not be triggered until there is an arrest IIRC. As long as they don't arrest that law doesn't apply

someone help me out here if I am wrong, I have to go research.

The sunshine laws don't apply to active investigations, as far as I know. An arrest does not make an investigation inactive.

 

[rossva]

I can see Martin's father, coming home after dinner, trying to call, getting voice mail, thinking he was at the movies, and falling asleep. We don't know how late it was when he got home, and perhaps he may have had a few drinks while at dinner. But, what about his "brother?" - it was early enough for the cousin to be called, would the brother still be awake, and wouldn't he say to either his mom, or Martin's father "hey, Trayvon left a little before 7 to get me some candy, and hasn't came back yet?"

Whether he told his Dad or not TM's Dad did try to reach him by phone and assumed he had ended up going to the movies with his cousin as TM had earlier discussed that he might do. Most people in the movie theater turn their phones off so the dad not being able to get an answer from TM may not have been a concern that night. And dad falling asleep while his son was still out, some people can do it. I remember worrying about my teens when they first started driving and planned to return late but the next thing I knew it was morning. One night I fell asleep on the couch only to wake up the next morning. They were home and I never heard them come in. It's not an issue of dad did not care, just that dad did not feel there was anything to worry about. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

He's certainly been characterized in the media as his brother. Why do you think that is, if not to gain an emotional advantage?

I'm not "sleuthing" the brother. I really couldn't care less about him. It's the entire story line I have fault with. I have asked numerous times where we got the story that he was going to 7-11 to get his "brother" candy, and have gotten no valid answers. It's just weird.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-24/trayvon-martin-friends/53744670/1

Wearing a hoodie. Listening to music and talking on his cellphone. Picking up Skittles for his soon-to-be stepbrother.