17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[vlpate]

I haven't posted in a few days, i basically had to walk away. I've read ALL of the threads, all of the posts, and i don't know what else to say anymore. To me, this case was over the minute Zimmerman stepped from his car. He needed to tell the police where he was going? Why? What was Martin doing that prompted him to be followed.

Now we have the negative slights coming out about Martin... all irrelevant IMO. Because nothing he was doing that night when Zimmerman approached him reference any past activity. At this point, i won't allow myself to get worked up any longer, because once people log on here, their minds are made up, and no matter what anyone says, their minds will not change. What we do know is a child is dead, and we know he would not be dead if Zimmerman stayed in his car. And to me, no matter what. he lost the case of self defenese when he approached Martin, armed with a weapon.

I'm curious, the police have said TM attacked Zimmerman from behind when Zimmerman was walking back to his truck, not toward TM. Why do you feel this is not a possibility? Why is it not possible that Zimmerman is telling the truth. This doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman had been following Trayvon or that Zimmerman had a gun, or even that he should have been arrested.

 

[tlcya]

Or, he could have been legitimately reaching down at his waistband. If he was wearing the traditional saggy pants, that's very common. I see it all the time.

exactly, but GZ may have read that as a possible indicator that TM was armed. If that is why he made that statement to dispatch, it is even MORE disturbing that GZ took continued to follow and pursue TM IMO.

 

[ziggy]

Let's get something straight. Trayvon Martin is the VICTIM here. Zimmerman followed Trayvon, confronted him, and shot him DEAD. I don't care if Zimmerman got thumped on the head or not. That's what happens when you pick a fight with someone. Zimmerman is a muderer and must be arrested.

Also the Sanford PD should be revamped. They have made a mockery out of investigating crime.

jmo

The problem here is that we don't know if TM is indeed an innocent victim. We don't have enough evidence to get that straight. Being deceased does not make one a victim per se.

The investigation should have been handled much more carefully so that the police department could easily defend their position, but they had no idea that the press would spin the story in order to get people fired up.

If it turns out that Zimmerman was not attacked and in no danger of great bodily harm, then he should be prosecuted. If not, the self defense stands because a reasonable person in GZ's position has the right to use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm. If you are on your back screaming for help having had your nose broken, the reasonable man would consider they are in danger of great bodily harm - and especially if the person on top is reaching for a gun whether it's his or yours.

It was not against the law or profiling or a hate anything when GZ followed Martin. Only what happened once they met up is relevant.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If Zimmerman was walking back to his truck and TM attacked him from behind, and Zimmerman screamed for help but got none... How long should he have taken the beating before using his gun in self defense?

Because this is the scenario that the evidence seems to support according to LE who have several witnesses listed on the initial report.

 

[m00c0w]

No I did not post that. Here is my exact post




"A tragedy that should not have happened" is the ENTIRE episode. I believe TM did come up behind GZ and knock him to the ground. I believe GZ did shoot TM after having his head smashed into the sidewalk. If GZ had stayed in his car - allowing the call to 911 to be sufficient - none of this would have happened.

You left out this part:

I have to disagree that anyone feels Trayvon deserved to be shot! The way I see it is many people want to believe Zimmerman chased down a young innocent lad and he's getting away with it.

 

[Sensei]

No I did not post that. Here is my exact post




"A tragedy that should not have happened" is the ENTIRE episode. I believe TM did come up behind GZ and knock him to the ground. I believe GZ did shoot TM after having his head smashed into the sidewalk. If GZ had stayed in his car - allowing the call to 911 to be sufficient - none of this would have happened.

If Trayvon had come up behind Zimmerman and knocked him to the ground, then he would have had scrapes on his hands, and grass stains on his knees, not grass and be wet on his back. I think his original statement if we ever get to see it is going to say that he was attacked from behind, and the later 2.0 versions after he realized that the evidence doesn't show that is going to say that they had words face to face and then Trayvon knocked him to his back with one blow.... IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[wishuwerehere]

It's not thy easy to "get straight".

That's the point.

There are factors of this case that point to self defense.
It's still being investigated.

So, no. It's not considered "fact" at this point that Zimmerman is a murderer and should be arrested.

Trayvon is the victim of being shot dead by Zimmerman. That is a fact.
No amount of slant will change that.

Zimmerman committed an act of violence that resulted in the death of Trayvon. That is a fact. The Sanford PD's failure to initially investigate the crime does not change that fact.

Zimmerman committed murder and should be arrested. Then a trial by jury should ensue and a verdict rendered on behalf of justice for Travyon.

 

[m00c0w]

exactly, but GZ may have read that as a possible indicator that TM was armed. If that is why he made that statement to dispatch, it is even MORE disturbing that GZ took continued to follow and pursue TM IMO.

I agree. It could have just been a general description of what he's doing, though. I'm not sure anyone can do anything other than speculate.

 

[pkz]

Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted Manslaughter Charge

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.

Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.

Zimmerman, 28, claimed he shot Martin, 17, in self defense.

One complicating factor in the investigation was that the first detective to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective.

The State Attorney's office said only "no comment" when asked about the affidavit today.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3IJ347AGr9

 

[LambChop]

It is disturbing that Zimmerman's picture being used is clearly meant to induce ill feelings while young Martin's is of a fresh faced smiling boy.

It's the only picture of GZ they were able to get ahold of because it is public record. The other one was released by his company. The media also released that one but not without permission as the picture belongs to the company GZ works for. I would think the media asked for a picture of TM, too and I can't imagine a family member having to sort through pictures to find one that would guarantee they would not have to deal with criticizm as to how they tried to deceive the public because their son looks young and innocent in the picture. Grief does not make you think that way. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

If Trayvon had come up behind Zimmerman and knocked him to the ground, then he would have had scrapes on his hands, and grass stains on his knees, not grass and be wet on his back. I think his original statement if we ever get to see it is going to say that he was attacked from behind, and the later 2.0 versions after he realized that the evidence doesn't show that is going to say that they had words face to face and then Trayvon knocked him to his back with one blow.... IMO JMHO and stuff

The story is that he came up behind Zimmerman, they exchanged words, and then Martin punched Zimmerman in the face, knocking him on his back.

 

[Sensei]

If Zimmerman was walking back to his truck and TM attacked him from behind, and Zimmerman screamed for help but got none... How long should he have taken the beating before using his gun in self defense?

Because this is the scenario that the evidence seems to support according to LE who have several witnesses listed on the initial report.

How about long enough to actually have injuries, you know some that were bad enough for the police to photograph, and have more treatment than a bandaid in the back of the police car... enough injuruies to make his story that he was fighting for his life credibleIMO JMHO and stuff

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Or, he could have been legitimately reaching down at his waistband. If he was wearing the traditional saggy pants, that's very common. I see it all the time.

I live in a very small town, no gangs so a lot of this stuff I don't know anything about other then tv.

But I thought it was most likely he mentioned Martin with his hand in his waistband because it signaled to the 911 this could possibly be an armed person and his call was important.

It also ran through my mind that is exactly where Zimmerman's gun was, in his waistband.

 

[m00c0w]

It's the only picture of GZ they were able to get ahold of because it is public record. The other one was released by his company. The media also released that one but not without permission as the picture belongs to the company GZ works for. I would think the media asked for a picture of TM, too and I can't imagine a family member having to sort through pictures to find one that would guarantee they would not have to deal with criticizm as to how they tried to deceive the public because their son looks young and innocent in the picture. Grief does not make you think that way. jmo

BBM

I agree with this point. It's probably the only picture that was publicly available at that time. It wasn't until the media went digging into his employment that they got the other picture.

 

[rotterdam]

This snipped info , I find quite interesting and got me thinking

Snipped

"Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities".

And makes me wonder if GZ shot TM by pressing his gun right up to Tray's chest.
And I wonder if that was the reason why it became a single shooter since it did not cycle.
Couple that also with the fact that the gun was only fired once. Unless you are very pretty good/lucky shot, a single 9mm shot does not stop a person dead in his track if fired from a short distance and generally multiple shots will be fired..
The self defense thingy boils down to one thing, what triggered Tray to deck GZ.
What did GZ do just before that.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

 

[tambo]

I'm taking a break from this thread it's really getting to me I feel the victim blaming is wrong and it's very sad to try and tarnish this young man who did not need to die at the hands of a serial 911 caller who IMO has clear psych problems. He should have stayed in his vehicle PERIOD

I think i need to take a little break too...my heart hurts from this..:shakehead:

 

[Sensei]

The story is that he came up behind Zimmerman, they exchanged words, and then Martin punched Zimmerman in the face, knocking him on his back.

Not at first it wasn't....at least not according to Lee, who stated that he was attacked from behind, NOW it is that they had words and he was attacked, and yet none of this is this original statement from the night it happened.

I believe that Lee has seen the original and that is where the attacked from behind came from, and the had words and punch came after actually considering that the evidence would not show that. IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[m00c0w]

I live in a very small town, no gangs so a lot of this stuff I don't know anything about other then tv.

But I thought it was most likely he mentioned Martin with his hand in his waistband because it signaled to the 911 this could possibly be an armed person and his call was important.

It also ran through my mind that is exactly were Zimmerman's gun was, in his waistband.

That may be possible. I can't really speak for Zimmerman; I was just pointing out that Martin may have actually been grabbing at his waistband. If Zimmerman thought he was armed and actively approached him, then I agree he was being extremely foolish.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Trayvon is the victim of being shot deat by Zimmerman. That is a fact.
No amount of slant will change that.

Zimmerman committed an act of violence that resulted in the death of Trayvon. That is a fact. The Sanford PD's failure to initially investigate the crime does not change that fact.

Zimmerman committed murder and should be arrested. Then a trial by jury should ensue and a verdict rendered on behalf of justice for Travyon.

I'm really not trying to slant anything. I have no reason to do that.

Yes, TM is dead. But why? Murder or self defense? THAT is the big question and that has yet to be answered.

Just because he id the deceased one does not mean he was the victim.

If this was self defense, Zimmerman would be the victim.

And I'm sorry, but I disagree with your fact. It may be your opinion and I respect that. But it's not a proven fact.
Yes Zimmerman pulled the trigger but that does not mean it was an act of violence. It may very well have been an act of self defense.

That's why there are investigations. To find out the facts.
People can't read a couple of articles and assume to know the facts.

 

[m00c0w]

Not at first it wasn't....at least not according to Lee, who stated that he was attacked from behind, NOW it is that they had words and he was attacked, and yet none of this is this original statement from the night it happened.

I believe that Lee has seen the original and that is where the attacked from behind came from, and the had words and punch came after actually considering that the evidence would not show that. IMO JMHO and stuff

Or perhaps Lee misspoke? That's certainly happened with the family a few times.