17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[Sensei]

That would depend on how much was contained in his clothing and how immediately he rolled off Zimmerman (assuming he was straddling him, as the one witness claims), wouldn't it?

That would actually explain why he was found as he was... He probably wouldn't have had much time to do more than grab the wound and roll over/off.

Not an expert on any of that, but a penetrating chest wound with arterial spurt enough to cause almost instantaneous death, within 2 minutes or so, I would expect a volume of blood, I may be wrong but it is what I would expect...IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[Adrienne37]

Wait, wait....that is the same street he was on when he called 911 and he gave them the information. And if he was in his car did he drive up on the sidewalk? That does not make sense. It's the only road out of the main gate. jmo

LOL LambChop, I meant it sarcastically. Of course, he didn't drive his vehicle on the sidewalk. He parked his vehicle on the street and then proceeded to stalk Trayvon ending up where he ultimately murdered him.


~jmo~

 

[annalia]

So the idea is, during this fight that lasted several minutes, Zimmerman is going to be taking his jacket off and then putting it back on?

I really don't know. He could have had his jacket off before the fight ever started and put it on after the shooting.

But a hoodie isn't a shirt, it's not something that would be that confusing.

I'm curious what he was wearing under his jacket.


JMHO

 

[vlpate]

According to a 911 caller, one person (who we now know was Zimmerman) was in white t-shirt & on top of Trayvon. GZ in 911 call and police both said Trayvon was in a hoodie, that’s how we know it was GZ on top in the white shirt. I think GZ always had the upper hand by pointing his gun at Trayvon (thus Trayvon screaming for his life jmo) & there was no struggle jmo, and GZ’s mysterious (jmo) injuries were self-inflicted to support self-defense, jmo. jmo. jmo.

Snipped from the second 7:16pm 911 call (link below):

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"
Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"
Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"
Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."
Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"
Caller: "Yes."

Police description of Trayvon in same article:
“Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report. Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.”

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...iref=allsearch

[Link has transcriptions of all the 911 calls]

Bad link.

 

[tehcloser]

(RNN) - The lead investigator in the case of the teenager shot to death by the neighborhood watch captain in a Florida gated community wanted to press charges against the shooter.

MORE
SLIDESHOW: Outrage over Trayvon Martin case

Trayvon Martin, 17, was shot and killed Feb. 26 by George Zimmerman, self-appointed captain of the neighborhood watch, while walking to his father's fiancee's house in Sanford, FL. Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense.

INCIDENT REPORT
Click here to read the police report from the night of Feb. 26.
http://www.kltv.com/story/17270330/lead-inestigator-wanted-to-press-charges-in-trayvon-case

 

[m00c0w]

Not an expert on any of that, but a penetrating chest wound with arterial spurt enough to cause almost instantaneous death, within 2 minutes or so, I would expect a volume of blood, I may be wrong but it is what I would expect...IMO JMHO and stuff

I'm not denying a massive volume of blood, but the artery is about as internal as you can get, and I would expect the hemorrhaging to largely be internal at first, especially considering the pleural space. It seems to me that there's a possibility that there may have only been somewhat minor external bleeding at first. JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Do you recall which show?

It was on NG and the reporter's last name was Savage.

 

[mikeysmommom]

It was reported as a red jacket, not red shirt.

JMHO

Ok sorry now it is a red jacket still witnesses said white shirt was on top.Not GZ could not have been it was dark but how does a red jacket look white?Grey would look closer to white then red could.

 

[jjenny]

I really don't know. He could have had his jacket off before the fight ever started and put it on after the shooting.

But a hoodie isn't a shirt, it's not something that would be that confusing.

I'm curious what he was wearing under his jacket.


JMHO

The idea that Zimmerman was in his red jacket during this fight has been attributed to at least two witnesses that I know of.

 

[LC446]

Except it's factually incorrect as the law currently stands. :waitasec:

I've read the Florida statute and you are correct. Sorry...thinking in Texas law mindset. After reading that statute, it is very scary. I've posted it here so there is no more confusion.....

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection

Not only are you exempt from arrest, but if someone attempts to bring civil action against you, you will get reimbursed for all expenses incurred to defend yourself.

Seems like you could create a confrontation with someone, kill them, claim self defense and if there are no witnesses or contrary evidence, you will not be held responsible.

 

[LambChop]

You are entitled to speculation. But that still does not change the actual words the dispatcher said. GZ was not told to stay in his car. He was not told to get back in his car. He was not told to refrain from looking at street signs.

And it's GZ who tells the dispatcher to meet him by the mailboxes and then changes his mind and asks to have them call him. (Not the other way around.) I'm searching for the sentence fragments you are using and I am coming up empty handed.

From one of the many transcripts I've found:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah...
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that. OK? Alright sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George…He ran.
Dispatcher: Alright George what’s your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: And George what’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman: XXXX
Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s XXXX, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah I got it XXXX?
Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome.


Boldface personal info has been edited out by me.

I found many versions of the transcript but none include GZ being told to get back in his car, go to the mailboxes, or stop following TM.

GZ was told by the police department spokeswoman at the NWP they were only to observe, not to follow and not to carry a gun. Everything except the gun is in that manual he received. I don't have a problem understanding what LE wanted GZ to do. GZ seems to be the one who wants to control the situation. Had the dispatcher known he had a gun he would have been ordered to wait for LE to arrive. That is not speculation this is LE's worst nightmare as is quite evident since GZ decided to take the matter into his own hands. jmo

 

[vlpate]

According to a 911 caller, one person (who we now know was Zimmerman) was in white t-shirt & on top of Trayvon. GZ in 911 call and police both said Trayvon was in a hoodie, that’s how we know it was GZ on top in the white shirt. I think GZ always had the upper hand by pointing his gun at Trayvon (thus Trayvon screaming for his life jmo) & there was no struggle jmo, and GZ’s mysterious (jmo) injuries were self-inflicted to support self-defense, jmo. jmo. jmo.

Snipped from the second 7:16pm 911 call (link below):

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"
Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"
Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."
Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"
Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."
Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"
Caller: "Yes."

Police description of Trayvon in same article:
“Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report. Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.”

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...iref=allsearch

[Link has transcriptions of all the 911 calls]

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me help, help, and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...ating-george-zimmerman-shooting#ixzz1qNLH1sEP

 

[m00c0w]

I've read the Florida statute and you are correct. Sorry...thinking in Texas law mindset. After reading that statute, it is very scary. I've posted it here so there is no more confusion.....

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection

Not only are you exempt from arrest, but if someone attempts to bring civil action against you, you will get reimbursed for all expenses incurred to defend yourself.

Seems like you could create a confrontation with someone, kill them, claim self defense and if there are no witnesses or contrary evidence, you will not be held responsible.

How would this be different from the previous self-defense laws?

 

[Juliet10]

Don't hold water, sorry, Well before the shooting, he calls dispatch, and during the course of that convo, is told "You don't need to do that" Is he following Treyvon, or is he in his car? If in his car when did he get out....evidence of him breathing hard and dispatch saying "Are you following him?" and him saying "Yeah" would indicate that he is no longer in his car at this time. He knows what dispatch said because he says OK...Could he possibly be far enough away from his car at that point to only get to where Treyvon was shot (going BACK to the car) when that happens? I don't think so.

If he is only getting out of the car when he admits to following, then when he said OK he was barely on the sidewalk and could easily have gotten back to his car.

no matter how much you want to call it conjecture, there is no way to make it fit that he was going back to his car IF he did not continue to follow Treyvon.
We have that pesky 911 call which is timestamped and those pesky phone records and other calls, and darn it the police arrival time is marked as well...

Zimmerman gets out of his car aproximately 2 minutes into the call. you can hear the ding ding ding and the door slam. Then approximately 13 seconds after 911 says stop following then he immediately says okay. It should only take 14 seconds to get back to vehicle and the call goes on to 4:05. he also nixes the mailbox car meeting place and says the cops will have to find out his new location, call him back, because he doesn't know where it will be yet.

 

[beach]

Do you recall which show?

The comment was made by MSM reporter Martin Savage. He was a guest on NG. Replaying now. Just heard the same comment.



my internet connection is horrible tonight. excuse & disregard if this has already be answered before my post posts.

 

[jjenny]

How would this be different from the previous self-defense laws?

As far as I understand it, self-defense is normally an affirmative defense (such as the person accused has to prove they are acting in self-defense) but "stand your ground" laws shift burden of proof onto the prosecution.

 

[vlpate]

It was on NG and the reporter's last name was Savage.

I just turned it on to see - first thing, one story she heard was Zimmerman was dragged out of his car.

*click*

Sorry, just can't watch.

 

[Emeralgem]

It was on NG and the reporter's last name was Savage.

My understanding is Savage is with CNN..Am I correct?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Not an expert on any of that, but a penetrating chest wound with arterial spurt enough to cause almost instantaneous death, within 2 minutes or so, I would expect a volume of blood, I may be wrong but it is what I would expect...IMO JMHO and stuff

The two lady witnesses who were on tv said when they looked out Zimmerman was knelt down on the body with his knees on each side of the body and his hands on Martin's back. They said they yelled at him several times and he just looked at them then said call he cops.



What was he doing?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

My understanding is Savage is with CNN..Am I correct?

Yes that is right!