17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

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  • #981
You saw Joe Oliver say this on the show? Do you have a video, transcript? I know things are easily misunderstood when these shows are moving so fast. Until I see it, I won't believe he said this. TIA

Yes, I saw that. The show will replay again tonight, and you may find a video over at msnbc.

He said he hears both---he can make out both words. Like sometimes he hears coo*s, sometimes he hears goons. For him, it's narrowed down to whether or not it's a c- or a g- but the -oons remains.
 
  • #982
But when does "tailing" a "suspect" become stalking? Is stalking an act of aggression?
I believe that the Florida statute requires repeated actions that show a course of conduct. Whether following someone once meets this requirement, I'm not sure. I wouldn't say so myself. I can certainly say that if Zimmerman was repeatedly following him, it would constitute as stalking. JMO
 
  • #983
Misread each other? Zimmerman shot and killed a kid armed with candy and iced tea.

Yes. IMO, GZ misread the unarmed Trayvon as a possible burglar, and (if GZ's story is true) Trayvon misread the armed GZ as someone he knew was following him but didn't think was so dangerous that he couldn't approach (as opposed to running). GZ should have stayed in his car and TM should have avoided GZ at all costs. That's not to say I place any blame on TM. I don't.
 
  • #984
I do believe that GZ thought Trayvon had a weapon that night. I think this from GZ's own words. "He's got his hand in his waistband. He's got something in his hand. This guy is up to something."

I think GZ thought Trayvon was armed. Why he went after him with his loaded gun, IDK - looking for a gun fight? Or thinking even if he shoots this kid, he'll get off because the kid had a gun too?



JMHO
 
  • #985
I would suggest not letting words cause you to start physical violence, no matter what the case.

Perfect example: the teenage boy in nc who was pushed and hit on the bus because a girl did not want him to sit there. She also called him names. She was black he was white. He sat there and took the abuse. I think he said something like just because someone is acting like an idiot doesn't mean you have to. She was physical but he wasn't getting hurt so he ignored her. (2weeks ago)
 
  • #986
I was watching CNN this afternoon and that "friend" of GZ's was on the show that Vinnie Politan (sp?) hosts. Vinnie commented at the end that the "friend" used to be a CNN anchorman and suggested he had been hired as a "friend" spokesman.
 
  • #987
But does his bad judgement then negate his right to self-defense (which is what he claims he did)?

His absolutely bad judgement does not negate his right to legitimate self defense, but it calls into question his judgement when he says he reasonable feared that his life was in danger. And his agenda of wanting to stay out of jail makes his story that the other person was the aggressor very suspect IMO JMHO and stuff.
 
  • #988
Thankx for the notes HiHater!

Question:

(I know this might have already been answered, I just can't remember)
Does Oliver live in the complex too? I know he's friends with GZ - but did he live in the community as well - or just friends from work?

Seems from your notes about what Oliver said tonight, the next story is going to be Trayvon went for the gun and they fought over it. Man, really? If it went off in the middle of a struggle - then gunshot residue, fingerprints on the gun, etc. etc. so much forensics to either prove or disprove this scenerio.


JMHO

The gun did not cycle after being fired which could point to a struggle and with Tray fighting for his life.
 
  • #989
The gun did not cycle after being fired which could point to a struggle and with Tray fighting for his life.
We haven't gotten any official confirmation of that have we? That was just part of the leaked info - right? I haven't seen anything official on the gun come out yet.




JMHO
 
  • #990
Took notes during Lawrence O'Donnell's show...found these things interesting...

Lawrence O'Donnell said Joe Oliver was saying wildly nutty things yesterday, and that Joe Oliver's role doesn't make sense.

My opinion:
Joe Oliver is a former CNN anchor (http://youtu.be/hD15_udJiLM) whose career has spiraled down. The last broadcasting job I could find for him was on a local Orlando station (http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...unts-blowback-from-fellow-blacks.php#46867200). I think he's hoping some major media exposure will let him get another major network job.

Just my opinion.
 
  • #991
The gun did not cycle after being fired which could point to a struggle and with Tray fighting for his life.

What does did not cycle mean?
Tia
 
  • #992
But does his bad judgement then negate his right to self-defense (which is what he claims he did)?

Cause and effect. Only GZ was responsible for what happened that night. jmo
 
  • #993
We haven't gotten any official confirmation of that have we? That was just part of the leaked info - right? I haven't seen anything official on the gun come out yet.




JMHO

I believe police did say only one bullet was missing from the gun.
 
  • #994
I had a talk with my 17-year-old niece tonight (love her so much) and I told her that if someone is ever following you in your gated community.... you run and run like hell. If that person happens to catch up with you, you fight and you make sure you slam the back of their head into the cement so hard that it knocks them out. We'll get you a good lawyer to fight the assault charges!

This is basically what I always told my kids. However, I never considered the fact that someone could shoot them dead for fighting for their life(even if I know this is a risk) and then the perp can claim self defense and be succesful in that claim deemed by local LE. Unreal. I guess this is the gist of why, IMO, that GZ needs to go before a judge.
 
  • #995
Remove his hoodie? Where is this coming from?

Originally Posted by mikeysmommom Sounds like after the shot,TM in white shirt who was on top fell over like 911 witness said.GM might have straddled him maybe he tried to see if he had pulse?maybe in shock checking neck for a pulse. realized he was gone then was standing pacing like in shock then yelled call cops JMO as the 911 calls seemed to play out when I heard them."

I was responding to mikeysmommom. :)
 
  • #996
I would suggest not letting words cause you to start physical violence, no matter what the case.

I agree, but I am almost 60 years old, and I don't know how old you are but Trayvon was 17 and many kids don't have a lot of impulse control at 17 George Zimmerman was 28 and had a loaded gun and should have known better IMO JMHO and stuff
 
  • #997
His absolutely bad judgement does not negate his right to legitimate self defense, but it calls into question his judgement when he says he reasonable feared that his life was in danger. And his agenda of wanting to stay out of jail makes his story that the other person was the aggressor very suspect IMO JMHO and stuff.

But prosecution can not just say "his account i suspect because he is going to come up with an account that is advantageous to himself." They need to have evidence that contradicts it. And if he actually was the one screaming on those tapes then I would say the person screaming is at the very least in distress.
 
  • #998
He said cut-through, not short cut. If you look at this map, it is the thin arrow going right
picture.php
[/IMG].

The spot I'm talking about is cut off in the view you show. If you look at the townhouse group that is at a forty five degree angle on the upper left, the brick wall ends between it and the road and a row of shrubs runs parallel to the back of that unit, between it and the next subdivision.

On the Google street view there does not appear to be any sort of fencing, just the shrubs.
 
  • #999
That case I don't know fully about but it's much, much different than this one. There was one surviving attacker to give his side out. If it was a convenience store there may have been video or other witness'. I think any time deadly force is used outside the house the person should be arrested and spend the night in jail. Then get an arraignment as soon as possible and a fair bail set. Then let a DA decide whether to take it to trial or not.

I don't believe in taking someone's word as to why they killed someone outside the home and then letting them go. Murder is a crime that deserves a lot of scrutiny.

Our schools are not the best in the world. A lot of our citizens are paranoid because the media focus' on murders because they mean ratings. We are not a society of people capable of policing themselves. I think this case proves it. JMO

I snipped this to only include the relevant point...

No one has ever implied anything about "taking anyone's word". The are still responsible for conducting a thorough investigation, and arresting anyone they have probable cause to suspect of an unlawful use of force. The only thing this has changed is that the police have the burden of proof of producing probable cause to believe that the shooting was unlawful, where before a person could simply be arrested even if it was the most clear-cut case of self defense in the world.

It is my belief that there is absolutely no reason to treat a victim of a violent crime like a common criminal. They did not ask for that to be thrust upon them, and to suggest they spend even one night in jail because they had to defend themselves is too much. No, murder should not be taken leniently, and this law does not advocate it to be taken in such a way. This law protects victims of violent crime.

You mention that the defense of habitation is the only place this law should apply, in your opinion. Why is that? Someone's house is probably the best place to commit a murder if you're going to. You have control of every single variable around. There are no witnesses if you don't want there to be. Laws can be abused, but the point is that you don't victimize the victim any more than necessary. All of the physical evidence is still present, an investigation is still conducted. The only difference is that the person that had to defend their life is not put in handcuffs and forced to do a perp walk and spend time behind bars because they were the prey.

Police can choose what they investigate and what they don't, and this law has no impact on when a department or investigating officers want to conduct a shoddy investigation for whatever reason. It's occurred before the law, and it will occur after. That is not the fault of the law, that is the fault of corrupt humans.
 
  • #1,000
I found this interesting. At the link below to the SPD, there is a link called "Volunteers" on the left. If you click on "Volunteers" and read it, it sounds to me as though this might be what GZ was doing. Could he have considered himself a volunteer officer, but took it to the next level by carrying a concealed weapon? Just something to think about.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/police/
 
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