17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #10

[Footwarrior]

Again, since no one KNOWS for sure exactly what Trayvon was doing that night, just what his parents (neither of whom were anywhere near him that night) have said he was doing. For all "we" know Trayvon could have been peering in windows, ducking behind bushes when he saw Zimmerman looking at him, etc which could have been why Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious.

A recording of Zimmerman's call to the police is available on the web. If Martin was looking in windows and hiding, why wouldn't Zimmerman mention this to the dispatcher? Zimmerman's reasons for calling were based on actions that few of us would find suspicious. The fact that Martin was young, black male and walking in Zimmerman's neighborhood seems to have triggered the call to the police. Martin matched Zimmerman's stereotype of a burglar.

ETA: If you haven't listed to the 911 call, look up "Trayvon Martin" on Wikipedia and click on the first audio file in the article.

 

[Bottle Cap]

I find it puzzling that GZ was even able to catch up with TM on foot.
We talking about healthy 17 year old football player.
If your being followed and scared, do you run like the wind to safety or do you confront the person following you?
Thats whats puzzling me. I hope the conversation with Trayvon's girlfriend can shed some light on it.

I don't think it should puzzle anyone that Trayvon failed to save his own life.

We have hindsight, but Trayvon did not have the ability to see into the future.

 

[iluvmua]

Although I disagree with those who don't see a concern about racism in this case, I think I do understand what is meant by this being a hoax (although "hoax" probably isn't the best word). They don't mean it was a trap or that the death of the boy is fake or deliberate on the part of the family or civil rights people.

I think they mean that perhaps the family knows that Trayvon was involved in criminal activity, could even have been looking for something to steal on his way home, and most definitely would have started up with GZ because he didn't like GZ watching him. That the family suspects Trayvon totally would start pounding some guy if he thought the guy was out to get him, so they know that GZ's story is probably quite true, that he was just trying to keep an eye on a suspicious person and that guy turned around and started whoopin him and he was in fear for his life, because Trayvon was a young, strong, fit guy, whereas GZ is older and out of shape. But knowing all this, they are instead portraying Trayvon as some kind of sweet little angel who would never hurt a fly and portraying GZ as a racist maniac. The typical civil rights media are out there blowing the story into a distortion in order to whip the public into a frenzy, when they know good and well that it's probably just what the police saw when they arrived--a clear-cut case of self-defense.

Again, what I wrote above is my understanding of what someone could mean by calling this situation a hoax. I am not in any way saying I agree with it or any part of it.

This is exactly what I meant. and no, Hoax is not the right word.

 

[Etilema]

That's not the same as following him. So I ask again, is it a fact that he continued to follow him after being told not too?

On the 911 call, he says that Trayvon is running away toward the rear entrance. If Trayvon is running away (according to GZ) how does he have an opportunity to attack GZ if he wasn't following? I don't understand how we can conclude anything other than that he continued to follow him?

 

[raeann]

Although I disagree with those who don't see a concern about racism in this case, I think I do understand what is meant by this being a hoax (although "hoax" probably isn't the best word). They don't mean it was a trap or that the death of the boy is fake or deliberate on the part of the family or civil rights people.

I think they mean that perhaps the family knows that Trayvon was involved in criminal activity, could even have been looking for something to steal on his way home, and most definitely would have started up with GZ because he didn't like GZ watching him. That the family suspects Trayvon totally would start pounding some guy if he thought the guy was out to get him, so they know that GZ's story is probably quite true, that he was just trying to keep an eye on a suspicious person and that guy turned around and started whoopin him and he was in fear for his life, because Trayvon was a young, strong, fit guy, whereas GZ is older and out of shape. But knowing all this, they are instead portraying Trayvon as some kind of sweet little angel who would never hurt a fly and portraying GZ as a racist maniac. The typical civil rights media are out there blowing the story into a distortion in order to whip the public into a frenzy, when they know good and well that it's probably just what the police saw when they arrived--a clear-cut case of self-defense.

Again, what I wrote above is my understanding of what someone could mean by calling this situation a hoax. I am not in any way saying I agree with it or any part of it.

This is what I don't get....this "older and out of shape" and the "couldn't possibly have kept up with a kid" thing. GZ is younger than MOST professional athletes!!! He has a stocky but MUSCULAR look to him...in fact I would bet he is the type to pride himself on his weightlifting etc. abilities as many LE officers are into fitness and gyms. I have a son this age who does TRIATHLONS and he is certainly not the oldest person in his competitions by far. There is no reason at all to believe that GZ is "old and out of shape" and unable to hold his own with a skinny kid!

jmo

 

[OneLove]

All I see are lots of speculations and no evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman's father has this kind of influence.

What we do at Websleuths is put together factual information with any and all possibilities and formulate theories. This theory is based on several pieces of a puzzle that seem to fit together, so I think it is a totally fair speculation at this point. Let's see some phone records that might refute this??

 

[beach]

All this fighting and wrestling on the ground and struggling over a weapon that GZ says happened, yet those damn skittles and that tea stayed in Tray's pocket. Imagine that.

Shirt tucked in too.

Hey y'all

I'm not disputing this but do we have this info confirmed anywhere? Can y'all link this up?

Just trying to insure the integrity of the info here and what we are claiming as factual, is indeed factual, kwim?

TIA much!

 

[annalia]

This is what I don't get....this "older and out of shape" and the "couldn't possibly have kept up with a kid" thing. GZ is younger than MOST professional athletes!!! He has a stocky but MUSCULAR look to him...in fact I would bet he is the type to pride himself on his weightlifting etc. abilities as many LE officers are into fitness and gyms. I have a son this age who does TRIATHLONS and he is certainly not the oldest person in his competitions by far. There is no reason at all to believe that GZ is "old and out of shape" and unable to hold his own with a skinny kid!

jmo

And we saw the video, GZ looked anything but old and out of shape.

JMHO

 

[beach]

I don't want to speak for the poster, but I think it was meant that a 'hoax' as in how the media/family are trying to portray an event that didn't really go down as it's being portraying.

I don't think that's whats going on based on what we've seen, but I won't deny the media is sensationalizing the story in one direction.

Thank you.

That is precisely how I interpreted the "hoax" comment also.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I believe the critical interaction by George Zimmerman leading to Trayvon’s death began at the clubhouse that day for 3 reasons.

(1) This exchange during the early part of Zimmerman’s 911 call:

911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:
Yeah

(2)

At shortly before 7:15, George Zimmerman, who volunteered for the development's neighborhood watch, spots Trayvon standing outside the development's clubhouse near the community mailboxes, where the teen had ducked under an awning to get out of the rain.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

(3) From Trayvon’s father’s video walk with the camera at the 00:46 mark:

He was at the clubhouse

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

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[tlcya]

Although I disagree with those who don't see a concern about racism in this case, I think I do understand what is meant by this being a hoax (although "hoax" probably isn't the best word). They don't mean it was a trap or that the death of the boy is fake or deliberate on the part of the family or civil rights people.

I think they mean that perhaps the family knows that Trayvon was involved in criminal activity, could even have been looking for something to steal on his way home, and most definitely would have started up with GZ because he didn't like GZ watching him. That the family suspects Trayvon totally would start pounding some guy if he thought the guy was out to get him, so they know that GZ's story is probably quite true, that he was just trying to keep an eye on a suspicious person and that guy turned around and started whoopin him and he was in fear for his life, because Trayvon was a young, strong, fit guy, whereas GZ is older and out of shape. But knowing all this, they are instead portraying Trayvon as some kind of sweet little angel who would never hurt a fly and portraying GZ as a racist maniac. The typical civil rights media are out there blowing the story into a distortion in order to whip the public into a frenzy, when they know good and well that it's probably just what the police saw when they arrived--a clear-cut case of self-defense.

Again, what I wrote above is my understanding of what someone could mean by calling this situation a hoax. I am not in any way saying I agree with it or any part of it.

Thanks for taking a minute to break it down. Now I follow what the original poster was trying to say.

 

[tehcloser]

Hey y'all

I'm not disputing this but do we have this info confirmed anywhere? Can y'all link this up?

Just trying to insure the integrity of the info here and what we are claiming as factual, is indeed factual, kwim?

TIA much!

I can try to go find it, if I can't I will delete it.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/08/us-crime-florida-neighborhoodwatch-idUSBRE82709M20120308

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Morning :seeya:

Here's a thought:


GZ and TM got into a scuffle. In the commotion of the scuffle, the gun was unholstered and fought over. The gun, then went off with the bullet hitting and killing TM.

When LE got there - GZ told them "I shot him".

OK

IF you were in a fight with an unknown assailant and both of you had a hand on that gun and that gun ending up being fired - then WHY wouldn't you tell LE -

"I don't know, we were fighting over the gun and it went off" OR

"The gun just went off - we both had on hands on it" OR

"I don't know - it all happened so fast - the trigger got pulled" OR

Something to that effect? Why would you simply say "I shot him"?

If you were fighting and knew this was a self defense shooting - why wouldn't your first words include something about TM's hands being on the gun as well? Or at least something about struggling over the gun? Why would you simply conceed to "I shot him and the gun is in holstered in my waistband"?

Plus, GZ re-holstering the gun. He had the presence of mind to re-holster it. IF it was such a chaotic, unnerving event - wouldn't the gun just have been dropped? Since TM was face down and not moving - the chances of that gun being grabbed up and used again was slim to none. There was nobody else around, so the chances of someone else grabbing it was slim to none.

I imagine that if you are in a struggle over a gun and that gun fires - it would be a very confusing, upsetting, and very distressing moment - yet, GZ had the presence of mind to re-holster the gun? Plus, if both GZ's hand and TM's hand had been on that gun - there is evidence of that on the gun - DROP IT and preserve that evidence.

I'm not sure about the "shock" that GZ supposedly felt if he had the presence of mind to re-holster that gun instead of just dropping it. And then he confession of "I shot him" instead of saying at least something about "we fought over it" or "he tried to grab it from me" - SOMETHING that would let LE know (who have YOU at gunpoint at the moment BTW) that you didn't mean it - that it was an accident - that it could have been TM's finger on that trigger?

Do ya get what I'm trying to say here?

Why would GZ just openly offer up "I shot him" as his first words to LE? Why admit to a crime when you really believe that you aren't guilty of? Sure, GZ is the one the gun belonged to - but if it was self-defense and TM was trying to get the gun - then why not make some type of statement about that - first words outta your mouth.

I know if I had been GZ and there was a fight/struggle over the gun and it was fired and TM took the bullet - first thing I would have said was 'I don't know - it just went off. He tried to grab it from me" - something like that. But Icertainly wouldn't take complete and total blame right from the get-go. And then, weeks later - turn around and say it was self-defense.




JMHO

 

[songline]

I find it puzzling that GZ was even able to catch up with TM on foot.
We talking about healthy 17 year old football player.
If your being followed and scared, do you run like the wind to safety or do you confront the person following you?
Thats whats puzzling me. I hope the conversation with Trayvon's girlfriend can shed some light on it.

If you run like the wind for safety and you have long legs as he would because he was 6'3" he would have been almost home. :moo:
I am not so sure he was scared enough to run...he may have been thinking... OH good he can’t drive his car into this area I am clear of him now.
But then he saw him and we do not know what happened at that stage....
:moo:

 

[iluvmua]

An official Justice for Trayvon song is now on Itunes released by the Trayvon Martin Justice Foundation.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/trayvon-martin-audio-foundation-official-single

 

[jjenny]

Morning :seeya:

Here's a thought:


GZ and TM got into a scuffle. In the commotion of the scuffle, the gun was unholstered and fought over. The gun, then went off with the bullet hitting and killing TM.

When LE got there - GZ told them "I shot him".

OK

IF you were in a fight with an unknown assailant and both of you had a hand on that gun and that gun ending up being fired - then WHY wouldn't you tell LE -

"I don't know, we were fighting over the gun and it went off" OR

"The gun just went off - we both had on hands on it" OR

"I don't know - it all happened so fast - the trigger got pulled" OR

Something to that effect? Why would you simply say "I shot him"?

If you were fighting and knew this was a self defense shooting - why wouldn't your first words include something about TM's hands being on the gun as well? Or at least something about struggling over the gun? Why would you simply conceed to "I shot him and the gun is in holstered in my waistband"?

Plus, GZ re-holstering the gun. He had the presence of mind to re-holster it. IF it was such a chaotic, unnerving event - wouldn't the gun just have been dropped? Since TM was face down and not moving - the chances of that gun being grabbed up and used again was slim to none. There was nobody else around, so the chances of someone else grabbing it was slim to none.

I imagine that if you are in a struggle over a gun and that gun fires - it would be a very confusing, upsetting, and very distressing moment - yet, GZ had the presence of mind to re-holster the gun? Plus, if both GZ's hand and TM's hand had been on that gun - there is evidence of that on the gun - DROP IT and preserve that evidence.

I'm not sure about the "shock" that GZ supposedly felt if he had the presence of mind to re-holster that gun instead of just dropping it. And then he confession of "I shot him" instead of saying at least something about "we fought over it" or "he tried to grab it from me" - SOMETHING that would let LE know (who have YOU at gunpoint at the moment BTW) that you didn't mean it - that it was an accident - that it could have been TM's finger on that trigger?

Do ya get what I'm trying to say here?

Why would GZ just openly offer up "I shot him" as his first words to LE? Why admit to a crime when you really believe that you aren't guilty of? Sure, GZ is the one the gun belonged to - but if it was self-defense and TM was trying to get the gun - then why not make some type of statement about that - first words outta your mouth.

I know if I had been GZ and there was a fight/struggle over the gun and it was fired and TM took the bullet - first thing I would have said was 'I don't know - it just went off. He tried to grab it from me" - something like that. But Icertainly wouldn't take complete and total blame right from the get-go. And then, weeks later - turn around and say it was self-defense.




JMHO

I don't know but since LE has the gun they could test for fingerprints.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpps/news/tr...ivil-rights-cases-dpgapx-20120330-fc_18921706

Martin Family Lawyer Known for Civil Rights Cases

Snipped:

When Benjamin Crump got his first call from Trayvon Martin's father last month, the attorney counseled patience.

It had only been two days since a neighborhood watch volunteer had fatally shot the 17-year-old, and surely an arrest was imminent, thought Crump, who has pursued several civil rights cases against law enforcement agencies.

Also snipped:

But thanks largely to Crump's efforts, the case has stirred marches and rallies around the nation, merited comment from President Barack Obama, led to the resignation of the Sanford police chief and brought scrutiny from the U.S. Department of Justice into this Orlando suburb of 55,000 residents.


* BBM -
My question, how did TM's father know he would need an attorney that has experience with cases against law enforcement 2 days after the shooting?
Was this a "the cops don't care" case from day 2, before the cops had a chance to investigate?
I don't know, that just seems odd to me.

And also, having a "civil rights" attorney so soon may have turned this into a "racial" case right off the bat. If the attorney's efforts got all the marches and protests going, was this a preplanned "national" civil rights case from the get go?

I'm not saying they do not have the right to an attorney, it just seems like from very early, they were determined to MAKE this a racial, civil rights deal from the start.

Please tell me you're joking. It has been stated over and over again that TM and his family are victims. Apparently they did the right thing. What with people blaming everyone but GZ and all......jmo


Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[tlcya]

Good morning WOO! I agree with your thoughts, that would be my reaction as well. That is why I have not participated in the debate over whether TM may have tried to disarm GZ. It just doesn't ring true to me for the very reasons you have outlined.

 

[iluvmua]

Please tell me you're joking. It has been stated over and over again that TM and his family are victims. Apparently they did the right thing. What with people blaming everyone but GZ and all......jmo


Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Nope, not joking

 

[Hopeful One]

It's no rumor that he was suspended out of school suspension 3 times this year. This was no "nice" kid. GZ was not a "nice guy" either.

Excuse me but just because a kid is suspended from school, that does not make him not a "nice" kid. My son has been suspended for silly things like joking around in class or speaking out of turn. To assume he's not a nice kid is ridiculous and unfair and actually quite hurtful as a parent.

Not to mention, what on this heavenly earth does that have to do with this case?? Because he had been suspended from school a few times, GZ now has the right to shoot him dead, even though GZ had NO way of knowing this??

Ridiculous and a very hasty, unfair accusation, imo :moo: and all that jazz.