17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[cityslick]

A big piece of this puzzle is going to depend on the forensics of that gun. IF both TM's and GZ's prints are on it - well, that clearly shows a struggle over the gun. If not and only GZ's prints - then, there is a problem.

The only way I see this being a self-defense case is what I outlined above. What I just don't understand is why GZ re-holstered the gun. That could have caused critical evidence - possibly in GZ's defense to maybe be wiped off. And if this was a close range shot - there is a good possibility that there was blood on it. Re-holstering it? IDK.

That's one of the big things, in my mind, that I'm waiting to see what the lab says. If TM's prints are not found on that gun - well, I don't see a self defense case holding any water.


JMHO

If there are two sets of prints on that gun and specifically, if TM's prints are on or near the gun handle, you're going to hard time prosecuting GZ IMO.

 

[Adrienne37]

Whats up with the guy who appeared on NG's show last night defending GZ's claims and injuries, but yet when asked IF he had seen or spoken with GZ since the incident, he readily states..No, he hasn't.... Why is he being given "air time" when he hasn't even seen or spoken to GZ since the shooting? JMHO

It's kind of like Uncle Joe Oliver last week when Lawrence O'Donnell promptly put him in his place and made him admit that Oliver was nothing more than a former coworker of Zimmerman. That was some of the best TV I've ever had the pleasure to watch.


~jmo~

 

[Adrienne37]

I'm guessing that the people closest to GZ are either not giving interviews or are charging too much. IMO, the media is taking anyone they can get to go before the cameras and run their mouth.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Perhaps it's because none of Zimmerman's true friends are willing to come forward because they know he's lying and that he's guilty.



~jmo~

 

[mikeysmommom]

If there are two sets of prints on that gun and specifically, if TM's prints are on or near the gun handle, you're going to hard time prosecuting GZ IMO.

I have a feeling his prints will be on that gun.People are rushing to make a judgement against GZ.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/n..._martin_saga/srvc=news&position=recent_bullet


Facts vs. rumors in the Trayvon Martin saga


Statement: Trayvon was trying to defend himself against a man who outweighed him by 100 pounds.
Outweighed, yes. By 100 pounds, no.

Statement: The U.S. Department of Justice is conducting a broad investigation into civil rights abuses by the Sanford Police Department in the Trayvon Martin case and for years of past abuse.
there’s only one civil rights investigation under way: whether Zimmerman violated Trayvon’s rights when he shot him.

Statement: Trayvon had no business walking through the gated community where he was shot and should not have been out at 3 a.m.
Trayvon was where he was supposed to be.


Statement: The reason George Zimmerman was not arrested is because his father is a former judge who pulled some strings.
Zimmerman’s father s a retired magistrate from Virginia.
He told television station WOFL last week that no one involved in the investigation knew about his former job, and he didn’t tell them. Magistrates in Virginia are not full-blown judges. They used to be called justices of the peace. They have limited authority and conduct no trials.

Statement: Trayvon Martin was shot in the back of the head.
The Rev. Jesse Jackson got that wrong at a rally in Eatonville on March 25. Trayvon was shot once in the chest at close range.

 

[Elley Mae]

Remember those pesky qualifer words of YOUNG, BLACK, and MALES?

From your link for the City of Sanford, FL:



30.5 (Black Persons) X .48 (100% - 52% Females = 48% Males) = 14.64% Black Males

14.64 Black Males X .26 Young Black Males = 3.806% YOUNG BLACK MALES

Sorry I was off a little. It's still early.

Yes, but the vote is still out as to whether or not he is a "child" or a "young Black male"

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

At What Age is Someone Considered a Legal Adult in the US?

The age at which one is considered a legal adult in the US is typically 18.

What defines a legal adult is ability to legally work, participate in contracts, vote, marry, give sexual consent, and join the military. Being a legal adult under 21 does not give one the right in most states to purchase alcohol, however.

The age one becomes a legal adult in the US is largely the age at which most children are considered adults in the world. A few countries set this age lower, but in most of the Western world, one is considered an adult at 18.

In some cases, a child under 18 is a legal adult especially for the purposes of marrying or signing contracts, prior to 18. This is rare and tends to occur if a child sues his or her parents for emancipation. An emancipated child is still a “minor,” however, and may not vote until he or she turns 18.

For many parents the term legal adult does not mean their children possess certain adult characteristics. For example, being an adult implies being able to make mature decisions, participate in civic matters, have self-control, and be responsible. Some 18-year-olds simply lack these characteristics and need further time to develop them. It concerns some parents that an 18-year-old can make life-altering decisions, like marrying early or joining the military, which may not have been made with significant forethought.
http://www.wisegeek.com/at-what-age-is-someone-considered-a-legal-adult-in-the-us.htm

 

[Wise Old Owl]

If there are two sets of prints on that gun and specifically, if TM's prints are on or near the gun handle, you're going to hard time prosecuting GZ IMO.

I agree. But we just don't know. And why would you re-holster it? That's what doesn't make any sense. Either drop it or continue to hold it. When the first officer arrived - put your hands up showing the gun and then slowly lay it down on the ground.

The fact that GZ had the presence of mind to re-holster it is odd. Especially since we have witnesses saying he was pacing and didn't answer people's calls as to what had just happened. Then he finally looks up and tells them to call police.

I do think GZ really thought TM had a gun and that if he shot it - it would be self defense. Once he did - and this again is JMHO - GZ went through his pockets and found that TM did not have a gun - hence the pacing and not answering.

JMHO if that was the case and the gun forensics back this up - GZ's goose is cooked - and I also think he knew that right after he shot him.



JMHO

 

[jaxibear]

A reasonable person would go to their house and not confront the person they perceive is following them. A reasonable person would call 911. I don't think the law applies to a person with two ways out of the situation and chooses to confront the stranger following them.

Didn't GZ have two ways out of the situation and chose to follow the person who he deemed suspicious and on something?

IMHO, his behavior was much less reasonable than Trayvon's.

 

[suspicious1]

GZ initiated contact with TM. GZ initiated the call to alert LE. GZ then went to TM by way of following him. The action was GZ's all the way to the contact point. What resulted was a reaction. But it all started with GZ. jmo

Exactly. If GZ would've listened to the dispatcher Tray would still be here. IMO, it all started with GZ and the child he was following ended up dead.

 

[Mysterylover]

Black teens in hoodies had been caught doing robberies in his neighborhood.There were robberies were black teens in hoodies were not caught but seen getting away.What it that was where you lived?Would you not be looking twice at Teens in hoodies? or would you be looking at little old ladies.My son every time he left our house from the age of 17 till 25 he was stopped by police just because he was a teen and police knew teens usually were up to something.Most crimes on the news when they show hold ups,store robberies the tape usually shows men and teens in hoodies they are used to help hide faces.Most wear them 2 or 3 sizes larger and the hood when up does obscure the face.What seems suspicious to one might not seem suspicious to another.Should a 17 yr old have died of course not!Was in down in cold blooded murder?I really do not believe he went gunning or wanted to hunt down a teen.IMO GZ was trying to keep his neighborhood safe, crime is going up all over he also is a young man who had a job,was going to school and has a wife. IMO He did not go hunting him a black teen.He saw TM by the clubhouse thought he was top to something and watched him which is all legal to do.IMO When TM was heard yelling why are you following,that meant he came up close something you should never do IMO.when you have been followed.Maybe TM had a chip on his shoulder,figured who is this white,hispanic man to watch me,to question me.IF TM did take the first punch the GZ was gonna fight back Unfortunately he had a gun on him and IMO during the scuffle they both got a hold of the gun and it went off.
If police did a bad job on their end blame them for sloppy work but since very little has come out on just what the police did or did not do how can anyone know what happened.We all are guessing IMO.
We need more info.
IF GZ was some hotheaded racist why that night? He lived there since 2009,I am sure he had seen many teens in hoodies.
If anything IMO it was more criminal profiling then racial profiling.

mikeysmommom, Most of the people on TV are only guessing, imo...getting their 15 minutes.
Have you heard IF he was cutting through any BACK YARDS?
or was he only walking on the street in front of peoples homes/apts? Big difference!

Is it true he was only visiting there?
Since the watchman had lived there since 2009 maybe that's why he followed the young man. Seems a 'simple' explanation would have cleared-up any questions...very sad...imo..jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

At What Age is Someone Considered a Legal Adult in the US?

The age at which one is considered a legal adult in the US is typically 18.

What defines a legal adult is ability to legally work, participate in contracts, vote, marry, give sexual consent, and join the military. Being a legal adult under 21 does not give one the right in most states to purchase alcohol, however.

The age one becomes a legal adult in the US is largely the age at which most children are considered adults in the world. A few countries set this age lower, but in most of the Western world, one is considered an adult at 18.

In some cases, a child under 18 is a legal adult especially for the purposes of marrying or signing contracts, prior to 18. This is rare and tends to occur if a child sues his or her parents for emancipation. An emancipated child is still a “minor,” however, and may not vote until he or she turns 18.

For many parents the term legal adult does not mean their children possess certain adult characteristics. For example, being an adult implies being able to make mature decisions, participate in civic matters, have self-control, and be responsible. Some 18-year-olds simply lack these characteristics and need further time to develop them. It concerns some parents that an 18-year-old can make life-altering decisions, like marrying early or joining the military, which may not have been made with significant forethought.
http://www.wisegeek.com/at-what-age-is-someone-considered-a-legal-adult-in-the-us.htm

Thanks Luv. This argument about whether or not Trayvon is a child is utterly ridiculous and like so many other things in this case is purely a distraction.

As I recall Phylicia Barnes, one of the missing kids that we followed on this board went missing at the age of 16, on December 8. She would have turned 17 in January. I'm wondering if she was considered a child or adult?

Let's see, Morgan Harrington was 17 when she mysteriously disappeared. Was she a child or was she an adult?

Ummm, Brittanee Drexel was 17 when she went missing. Was she a child or was she an adult?

'Nuff said.

It seems when we are discussing missing person cases, the victims are children but when we are discussing the murder of a 17-year-old African-American male, he is suddenly an adult. Double standard to say the least.


~jmo~

 

[Concerned Papa]

Yes, but the vote is still out as to whether or not he is a "child" or a "young Black male"

And once again your link had cleared that pesky issue up for us:

Persons under 18 years, percent, 2010 26.0%

Last time I checked, there's no "vote" to be in OR out as to 17 being younger than 18. The percentage was appropriately applied in the calculation.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I said a few days ago that I would continue to make this post once a day until we get a resolution in this case.

GZ made 3 bad choices that night

1) He chose to get out of his car and follow (against LE's direction)

2) He chose to take a loaded gun with him

and

3) He chose to pull the trigger.

Its just that simple.


I don't think GZ had the gun out when he confronted TM and this is why:
IF GZ would have walked up to TM with the gun drawn - well then, he has TM at gunpoint. Why would anyone with an exposed gun get close enough to someone for that someone to try to grab it? Keep you distance and hold that person at gunpoint - order them to the ground, arms out. This keeps you safe and the "suspicious person" at bay, away from attacking you. Also, keeps you from having to pull that trigger.

Would GZ have been in trouble if he did that? Probably - but seeing as how SPD let him go for killing TM - I don't think he would have been in all that much trouble if he never pulled the trigger and TM would still be alive.

Something doesn't add up with GZ's actions and why he did what he did. It just ain't fittin'


JMHO

 

[Adrienne37]

Black teens in hoodies had been caught doing robberies in his neighborhood.There were robberies were black teens in hoodies were not caught but seen getting away.What it that was where you lived?Would you not be looking twice at Teens in hoodies? or would you be looking at little old ladies.My son every time he left our house from the age of 17 till 25 he was stopped by police just because he was a teen and police knew teens usually were up to something.Most crimes on the news when they show hold ups,store robberies the tape usually shows men and teens in hoodies they are used to help hide faces.Most wear them 2 or 3 sizes larger and the hood when up does obscure the face.What seems suspicious to one might not seem suspicious to another.Should a 17 yr old have died of course not!Was in down in cold blooded murder?I really do not believe he went gunning or wanted to hunt down a teen.IMO GZ was trying to keep his neighborhood safe, crime is going up all over he also is a young man who had a job,was going to school and has a wife. IMO He did not go hunting him a black teen.He saw TM by the clubhouse thought he was top to something and watched him which is all legal to do.IMO When TM was heard yelling why are you following,that meant he came up close something you should never do IMO.when you have been followed.Maybe TM had a chip on his shoulder,figured who is this white,hispanic man to watch me,to question me.IF TM did take the first punch the GZ was gonna fight back Unfortunately he had a gun on him and IMO during the scuffle they both got a hold of the gun and it went off.If police did a bad job on their end blame them for sloppy work but since very little has come out on just what the police did or did not do how can anyone know what happened.We all are guessing IMO.We need more info.IF GZ was some hotheaded racist why that night? He lived there since 2009,I am sure he had seen many teens in hoodies.If anything IMO it was more criminal profiling then racial profiling.

Now, Zimmerman is actually a criminal profiler like on Criminal Minds?



~jmo~

 

[songline]

Black teens in hoodies had been caught doing robberies in his neighborhood.There were robberies were black teens in hoodies were not caught but seen getting away.What it that was where you lived?Would you not be looking twice at Teens in hoodies? or would you be looking at little old ladies.My son every time he left our house from the age of 17 till 25 he was stopped by police just because he was a teen and police knew teens usually were up to something.Most crimes on the news when they show hold ups,store robberies the tape usually shows men and teens in hoodies they are used to help hide faces.Most wear them 2 or 3 sizes larger and the hood when up does obscure the face.What seems suspicious to one might not seem suspicious to another.Should a 17 yr old have died of course not!Was in down in cold blooded murder?I really do not believe he went gunning or wanted to hunt down a teen.IMO GZ was trying to keep his neighborhood safe, crime is going up all over he also is a young man who had a job,was going to school and has a wife. IMO He did not go hunting him a black teen.He saw TM by the clubhouse thought he was top to something and watched him which is all legal to do.IMO When TM was heard yelling why are you following,that meant he came up close something you should never do IMO.when you have been followed.Maybe TM had a chip on his shoulder,figured who is this white,hispanic man to watch me,to question me.IF TM did take the first punch the GZ was gonna fight back Unfortunately he had a gun on him and IMO during the scuffle they both got a hold of the gun and it went off.If police did a bad job on their end blame them for sloppy work but since very little has come out on just what the police did or did not do how can anyone know what happened.We all are guessing IMO.We need more info.IF GZ was some hotheaded racist why that night? He lived there since 2009,I am sure he had seen many teens in hoodies.If anything IMO it was more criminal profiling then racial profiling.

WHAT THE POLICE DID IMHO did --- is creat another victim.
IT is their fault it has blown out of proportion.
IT is the TM camp that made it into some civil racial case.

GZ is sadly a sitting duck. No I will never believe that he came out of his house with any intentions to profile anyone, or to follow anyone at all.
IMHO what happened is "If you see something you say something" then it snowballed.

 

[suzihawk]

A big piece of this puzzle is going to depend on the forensics of that gun. IF both TM's and GZ's prints are on it - well, that clearly shows a struggle over the gun. If not and only GZ's prints - then, there is a problem.

The only way I see this being a self-defense case is what I outlined above. What I just don't understand is why GZ re-holstered the gun. That could have caused critical evidence - possibly in GZ's defense to maybe be wiped off. And if this was a close range shot - there is a good possibility that there was blood on it. Re-holstering it? IDK.

That's one of the big things, in my mind, that I'm waiting to see what the lab says. If TM's prints are not found on that gun - well, I don't see a self defense case holding any water.


JMHO

My worry is whether the SPD even bothered to collect much evidence. What with their reputation for shoddy police work and history of... hmmm, how to say... looking the other way when convenient. They didn't appear to take much time to gather information to determine it was self defense but based their decision primarily on the word of GZ. And in their haste to dispose of the case, much precious evidence was lost.

MOO

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Thanks Luv. This argument about whether or not Trayvon is a child is utterly ridiculous and like so many other things in this case is purely a distraction.

As I recall Phylicia Barnes, one of the missing kids that we followed on this board went missing at the age of 16, on December 8. She would have turned 17 in January. I'm wondering if she was considered a child or adult?

Let's see, Morgan Harrington was 17 when she mysteriously disappeared. Was she a child or was she an adult?

Ummm, Brittanee Drexel was 17 when she went missing. Was she a child or was she an adult?

'Nuff said.

It seems when we are discussing missing person cases, the victims are children but when we are discussing the murder of a 17-year-old African-American male, he is suddenly an adult. Double standard to say the least.

~jmo~

See that's what happens when you get 'tunnel' vision...Trayvon is considered to be a child, in my eyes and the law..a 17 y/o cannot make a binding contract, their minds are not considered developed but folks will continue to say, he's no child..I pay no mind to it, for I believe he is a child, definately Sabrina and Tracy's CHILD...to say otherwise is just nonsense..but people are allowed their own opinion...doesn't mean it's correct...:what:

 

[annalia]

Now, Zimmerman is actually a criminal profiler like on Criminal Minds?



~jmo~

And a police officer?

 

[mikeysmommom]

A big piece of this puzzle is going to depend on the forensics of that gun. IF both TM's and GZ's prints are on it - well, that clearly shows a struggle over the gun. If not and only GZ's prints - then, there is a problem.

The only way I see this being a self-defense case is what I outlined above. What I just don't understand is why GZ re-holstered the gun. That could have caused critical evidence - possibly in GZ's defense to maybe be wiped off. And if this was a close range shot - there is a good possibility that there was blood on it. Re-holstering it? IDK.

That's one of the big things, in my mind, that I'm waiting to see what the lab says. If TM's prints are not found on that gun - well, I don't see a self defense case holding any water.


JMHO

IMO He re holstered the gun so when Le came he was not shot plus how did he know if anyone might come at him seeing TM dead on the ground.A poster who knows guns had said it is the way you are suppose to handle your weapon.HTH