17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[Wise Old Owl]

GZ right away admitted he shot Trayvon. I am not sure what evidence could have been found on his hands that would make a difference.

Lots and lots. Gun powder, back spatter (and I still say if it was a close range shot that at the very least the gun and the firing hand would have had back spatter); finernail scrapings with TM's DNA - if there was a fight (and this works in GZ's defense - proves a struggle/fight for self defense). Lots and lots of evidence. And I still don't understand why it wasn't done. And we can pretty much say conclusively that it wasn't. It was only 35 minutes after the shot when we see him at SPD (unbagged hands). TM wasn't pronounced until 7:30 and its at least a 15 minute drive to the station. I'm wondering if CSI were even on the scene by the time GZ left. So, I do believe I'm correct in saying that it was never done. Although it is still JMHO





JMHO

 

[passionflower]

Crime scene .........how loong was it first investigated etc?
IIRC only a small time.........???
One time on vacation, a man shot another man in the parking lot.
It was about 2 am. My car happened to be splurted with blood, fingerprints.
Finger prints and blood evidence and photos were taken of my car.
LE stayed with the bullet casings etc.
Dogs brought in etc.
The tape wsn't taken down til noon.
My car and the parking lot was completely blocked off.
No one was killed and the men arrested right away.
This was in Cedar Point area of Ohio.

 

[daisy7]

BBM

The patrolman is not supposed to ask a suspect who has already admitted to the crime anything at all about it at that point. Because anything he says can be thrown out anyway and they don't want him to start talking BEFORE the detectives get to him.

The patrolman did the exact right thing, imo. He was not the investigator anymore because the perp confessed to the shooting. If the cop came on the scene and nobody confessed then he would be asking questions to try and lock down the scene.

eta: if the cop did ask him about it and he began with a long confession then it could ALL be thrown out because he didnt have a chance to get an attorney yet.

The only possible reason what GZ said to the first LE responders on the scene would not be allowed in a criminal trial, would be if he was not Mirandized. It has nothing to do with whether the LE that questioned him was a patrolperson or a detective. And, if he waived his right to an attorney, it would all be admissable.

BTW -- do we even know if he was Mirandized that night? It would be highly questionable to me, if he wasn't.

IMO.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Another thing that really has me wondering is, am I the only one that thinks GZ's clothing looks dry as a bone? I know, I know.....the video's grainy....you can't tell by looking at something if it's wet, but dang it, this guy even had his shirttail neatly tucked in place.

I guess what I'm asking is, did they let him change clothes and bag up the one's he was running around in?

It was raining wasn't it?

 

[suzihawk]

GZ right away admitted he shot Trayvon. I am not sure what evidence could have been found on his hands that would make a difference.

He could possibly come back and retract that statement. It's absurd, but it's been done in the past.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I have never worked in law enforcement and have never been to the scene of a murder investigation. In all honesty, pretty much the sum of what I thought I knew came from television and the movies. Somewhere along the way I've apparently been fed a ton of bs regarding how a murder is investigated.

I'm not meaning to go after the Sanford Police Dept., but I've been spending some time with the police report trying to comprehend how this all went down. This Officer Smith who did the report says he's the one who first approached GZ, disarmed him, put him in cuffs, and marched him back to his squad car. He says he never asked him ANYTHING!

How does that work? There's a dead body laying there, this dude tells you he shot him and you don't even have a brief conversation with him as to how he says it all happened?

I thought Investigators of a murder did their work at the scene. I know they do on Law and Order, but this guy was skipping along in the police station 36 minutes after he killed the victim! The report says an Investigator investigated him there! How in the heck do you check a guy's story out from the other side of town?

The part that's so obviously contrived about this report deals with an officer telling us he didn't question the suspect but the report is laced with "I overheard him say blah, blah, blah" or "While I was doing ____I noticed grass yada, yada, yada, and blood coming out his_____." You've flat out got to wonder about someone whose powers of observation allegedy compells him to specifically note grass on the back of a coat AND it being wet.....while it's RAINING! What about the rest of the coat? IT DIDN'T GET WET?

Then you got the real gem of this deal. How in the hell can a Chief of Police get up in front of more cameras and mics than the Super Bowl has and tell the world what a squeaky clean record a dude has with assaulting an LE Officer on his record, in this day and age of computers, cross agency ties, NCIC, etc?

Oh well, in the meantime we'll all just sit around arguing the points of this case, the Feds will hopefully straighten it all out, but a mother's son will still be no more.

BBM

According to the clarification by the PD, it is a clean record. He has no felony convictions. That makes it a clean record. Did you read about the 'assault' on a police officer case? That was when he was pretty young and he shoved an undercover officer who was trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking. IIRC Does that make him a violent cold blooded person?

As for the cops report, I think it was a good one. He wrote down his observations and things he over heard, as he should. And it was not his job to interrogate the man he detained. It was up to the detectives to do that. they would have been very angry if the cop had done that himself on the scene.

And yes, it is routine that the interviewing of the suspects is done at the station. There are lots of reasons for that. But there are investigators on the scene, doing their part of the investigations,and there are some at the station, doing their part.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

GZ right away admitted he shot Trayvon. I am not sure what evidence could have been found on his hands that would make a difference.

Blood splatter tells a story, trace evidence like hair and fiber tell a story.

Scraped fingers tell a story.

But thanks to the EMT treating him and the ride in the car and the leaning against the wall in the police station they are probably worthless if they were there because they did not bag them.

 

[jaxibear]

Blood splatter tells a story, trace evidence like hair and fiber tell a story.

Scraped fingers tell a story.

But thanks to the EMT treating him and the ride in the car and the leaning against the wall in the police station they are probably worthless if they were there because they did not bag them.

I bet they bagged Trayvon's hands.

 

[lauriej]

GZ right away admitted he shot Trayvon. I am not sure what evidence could have been found on his hands that would make a difference.

--whether he admitted it or not, LE should have followed protocol.

--i realize this didn't happen in this case ---but, he could have been covering for a friend ( w/ a lengthy un-squeaky clean record that had taken off )

--people do admit to crimes they didn't commit, if it's SOP to bag the hands it should have been done.IMO.

 

[nickster]

When is it racial, and when it is just a description? He was a young, black, male. He wasn't a young, white male. He wasn't an old black male. He wasn't an old, white male. Descriptions are necessary, not racial. JMO.

I totally agree with you, its just a description. I suppose now we won't be able to say the B word. When is asked to describe the person they are racist? like what color hair? what color eyes? what were they wearing? Is that also racial profiling? I don't hear the outrage when the young black men kill each other.

 

[jjenny]

The only possible reason what GZ said to the first LE responders on the scene would not be allowed in a criminal trial, would be if he was not Mirandized. It has nothing to do with whether the LE that questioned him was a patrolperson or a detective. And, if he waived his right to an attorney, it would all be admissable.

BTW -- do we even know if he was Mirandized that night? It would be highly questionable to me, if he wasn't.

IMO.

If he said something spontaneously without them asking him question it will be allowed, he doesn't have to be mirandized for that.

 

[katydid23]

The only possible reason what GZ said to the first LE responders on the scene would not be allowed in a criminal trial, would be if he was not Mirandized. It has nothing to do with whether the LE that questioned him was a patrolperson or a detective. And, if he waived his right to an attorney, it would all be admissable.

BTW -- do we even know if he was Mirandized that night? It would be highly questionable to me, if he wasn't.

IMO.

It would be a dream come true for the defense attorney if a patrolman took it upon himself to try and interrogate a murder suspect on the scene. And the homicide detectives would probably want him fired.

A patrolman is NOT a homicide detective and it is not his job to try and interview the alleged killer. There are far too many things that can go wrong. And it is not only because of the miranda warnings that his confession could go poof. A good defense attorney can come up with all kinds of objections that could throw out a confession made within minutes of a shooting.

" My client was in shock, my client was in fear for his life because the real shooter was just a few feet away, my client was intimidated by the armed cop who had wrestled him to the ground...[etc/]

The preferred protocol is to have the suspect sitting in a small room with a video camera and two seasoned detectives.

 

[daisy7]

Another thing that really has me wondering is, am I the only one that thinks GZ's clothing looks dry as a bone? I know, I know.....the video's grainy....you can't tell by looking at something if it's wet, but dang it, this guy even had his shirttail neatly tucked in place.

I guess what I'm asking is, did they let him change clothes and bag up the one's he was running around in?

It was raining wasn't it?

Must be that really high evaporation rate we have in FL

 

[Adrienne37]

I totally agree with you, its just a description. I suppose now we won't be able to say the B word. When is asked to describe the person they are racist? like what color hair? what color eyes? what were they wearing? Is that also racial profiling? I don't hear the outrage when the young black men kill each other.

This case isn't about young black men who kill each other.


~jmo~

 

[joypath]

GZ right away admitted he shot Trayvon. I am not sure what evidence could have been found on his hands that would make a difference.

While GZ admitted that he shot TM while at the scene, that should have been regarded as a spontaneous utterance unless GZ had been Mirandized and "gave up those rights" and full crime scene protocol ,IMHO and DH's (retired State Trooper..Homicide/CSI) also, should have been initiated.
Evidence on his body would have either bolstered HIS story or not, if a FULL investigation was conducted.

The re-holstering of the weapon really bothered DH as it was still a dangerous weapon to arriving responders (what if SFD got there FIRST?) and to DH was an indication that GZ had limited knowledge of weapon management re: police protocol/action but did have knowledge re: range behavior. BTW: DH indicated that the particular weapon has about a 5 lb pull.....it was fired with purpose, In his Opinion (IMO, too!)

JMO

 

[Concerned Papa]

Lots and lots. Gun powder, back spatter (and I still say if it was a close range shot that at the very least the gun and the firing hand would have had back spatter); finernail scrapings with TM's DNA - if there was a fight (and this works in GZ's defense - proves a struggle/fight for self defense). Lots and lots of evidence. And I still don't understand why it wasn't done. And we can pretty much say conclusively that it wasn't. It was only 35 minutes after the shot when we see him at SPD (unbagged hands). TM wasn't pronounced until 7:30 and its at least a 15 minute drive to the station. I'm wondering if CSI were even on the scene by the time GZ left. So, I do believe I'm correct in saying that it was never done. Although it is still JMHO





JMHO

BBM

Looks like you're already on where I'm headed with a lot of this.

I'm going through this report with a fine toothed comb because he was back at the station 36 minutes after he pulled the trigger. That leaves 20 minutes at the scene for all this report says happened.

Officer Smith says in the report that he parked his squad car at 2821 Retreat View Circle and went between the houses. It's 175 feet from where the body was back to his squad car to put GZ in the back AFTER he had been disarmed and cuffed. I'm trying to sort my way through a timeline at the scene for this 20 minutes, and I've gotta tell ya there's not a ton of time left over for a cleanup by paramedics or anyone else. He didn't even get marched to the squad car till AFTER Officer Smith watched CPR efforts on TM's body.

 

[lauriej]

Another thing that really has me wondering is, am I the only one that thinks GZ's clothing looks dry as a bone? I know, I know.....the video's grainy....you can't tell by looking at something if it's wet, but dang it, this guy even had his shirttail neatly tucked in place.

I guess what I'm asking is, did they let him change clothes and bag up the one's he was running around in?

It was raining wasn't it?

--according to 'wunderground' it was 62F w/ a "light rain".

--the only person who has desribed it as a downpour was george's brother.

--even the 13 year old witness was out walking the dog so it couldn't have been much of a rain.

--i highly doubt LE has clothing in their patrol cars for people to change into , they would deliver him as is to PD for questioning etc....IMO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

They could have taken that highway (417) might have gotten them there a little bit quicker - but how much?

Yep, I just keep saying the timeline with this one is just so tight. Not a whole lot of leeway for things to have been missed or done or not done. KWIM?




JMHO

 

[vlpate]

Live HLN chat about case - facebook/hln - click on chat. They will be live at 1:30 pm.ET

 

[daisy7]

It would be a dream come true for the defense attorney if a patrolman took it upon himself to try and interrogate a murder suspect on the scene. And the homicide detectives would probably want him fired.

A patrolman is NOT a homicide detective and it is not his job to try and interview the alleged killer. There are far too many things that can go wrong. And it is not only because of the miranda warnings that his confession could go poof. A good defense attorney can come up with all kinds of objections that could throw out a confession made within minutes of a shooting.

" My client was in shock, my client was in fear for his life because the real shooter was just a few feet away, my client was intimidated by the armed cop who had wrestled him to the ground...[etc/]

The preferred protocol is to have the suspect sitting in a small room with a video camera and two seasoned detectives.

Maybe I am misinformed, but don't all LE at least obtain basic info of the incident for the police report. Simply asking, "What happened?" would in no way be an interrogation nor a formal interview. Even if he wasn't Mirandized, whatever he said would be considered an "excited utterance" and most likely admissable in court. Or, do all patrolpeople wait until Detectives are on the scene to ask this type of question?

I guess these types of things would be addressed in court, if there is ever a court proceeding.

IMO.