17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[Lovejac]

I respectfully disagree in the strongest possible terms. That is one of the things that makes this entire "head hit on the concrete" so very impossible to believe. Even what many people consider a minor trauma, to an adult or to a child can result in some very serious complications and there does not have to show ANY visible damage to head or neck. The person can be just fine, and no one will know that they are bleeding into the brain, or between the dura mater and the brain until they suddenly have altered consciousness and at that point it is life threatening and they may in fact lose substatial areas of brain function forever...That is why even minor sports related bumps on the head, and traffic accidents get sent in for testing around here.'

I am not making any of this up, I promise, so here is a link

When an injury occurs, loss of brain function can occur even without visible damage to the head. Force applied to the head may cause the brain to be directly injured or shaken, bouncing against the inner wall of the skull. The trauma can potentially cause bleeding in the spaces surrounding the brain, bruise the brain tissue, or damage the nerve connections within the brain.http://www.emedicinehealth.com/head_injury/article_em.htm

Isn't this what happened to Natasha Richardson after a skiing accident?

 

[bessie]

That's definitely the kind of thing that was going on. Maybe the gun was not yet out but GZ was keeping the other hand free to at least keep it on the gun because he knows he can't let TM get hold of it. Either way, I hear in the screams a head lock, a quarter nelson, maybe a struggle for the gun if it has already comes out. The sounds remind me of when a schoolyard fight got really out of hand and one guy has the upper hand and you realize this going from a fistfight to a point where someone is being choked or -- as in a headlock -- the pressure is so great you feel like you may faint. Whoever was screaming was not merely scared, they were on the losing end of the struggle.

I agree. Those are the gut-wrenching wails of a person in severe distress, imo. To me, it doesn't sound like the stacatto cries you hear during a series of sudden blows. It's different, more sustained. I didn't think of a headlock, but that makes sense. Actually, I wondered if GZ grabbed TM below the waist to disable him. I might be totally off base, but that's my perception of the sounds on that tape. My untrained ears also tell me it's a second voice crying "help me" in that instant before we hear the gunshot. JMO

 

[LambChop]

And yet we take the word of his g/f who waited weeks to come forward with sketchy phone bill? Something tangible vs something we've only heard through an attorney and Trayvon's parents. One has no agenda, IMO, the other does, IMO. I have no doubt he was talking to his girlfriend on February 26 - the rest is her word as to what happened, and that's all it will ever be.


There is NO way for any of us to know how he "appeared". We weren't there.

<respectfully snipped>

If the gf has told her story less than 20 times I'd be surprised. One way you know if a child is truthful their story never changes. She's going to the Grand Jury that tells us someone important thinks her testimony is valid. I would think they all have agenda's at this point. I know I would.

We weren't there is very true so why would we assume GZ is telling the truth when he failed to follow simple instructions from LE. We all know he agreed and knew exactly what the dispatcher meant. We all know it met with tragic results that could have been avoided had he listened. jmo

 

[Reader]

--the purpose of the GJ is to determine if they will indict zimmerman. he won't be called to testify.

He certainly can be subpeonaed or can volunteer to testify:

Can a grand jury target offer evidence of his or her own?
For the most part, the subject of a grand jury investigation has no right to testify unless subpoenaed, nor any right to compel the grand jury to hear certain witnesses or evidence. Often, however, if a target requests an opportunity to testify, he or she will be permitted by the prosecutor to do so but without a grant of immunity.

The prosecutor may refuse to present evidence submitted by a target. In federal grand juries, exculpatory evidence need not be presented, although in many states exculpatory evidence must be submitted for the grand jury’s consideration. Prosecutors have the right in federal grand juries to introduce hearsay and to otherwise utilize evidence that would not be admissible in a regular trial.

http://www.abanow.org/2010/03/faqs-about-the-grand-jury-system/

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Witness on Anderson Cooper 3/29/12-
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/acd.02.html
But I wasn't watching out the window during that. And then the next time I looked out the window, there same thing, two men on the grass, one on top of each other. I kind of felt like that I couldn't see a lot of movement, because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard the gunshots, which, to me, were more like pops than they were like a bang.

COOPER: You say gunshots, plural. Was there more than one, to your memory, or was there just one?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Well, the sound that I had from where I was walking, it was more like a pop, and it definitely was more than one pop noise. So I don't know if it was an echo or anything else, but it definitely made more than one pop. ---

Could it have been the crack noise, followed by the gunshot, that they heard?

It could be and with him and the phone call and the evidence on Trayvon they will know just how far apart they were when it was fired.

 

[TonyGatto]

I understand TM and his girlfriend not calling 911.
As a teen, I probably encountered situations where I should have, but wasn't really sure if the situation warranted it. If someone were following me (and I had that happen), I'd wonder if I was overreacting...or maybe I thought I could handle it.

It got serious very fast. TM couldn't know he was about to die.

The same for his girlfriend. She may not have realized how serious it was. Would TM get mad if she called? Where would she send them? He'd probably just call her later and tell her what happened.

SMH

And let's not forget, the worst TM could have thought he was in for was a fist fight. How was he to know dude had a gun.

 

[ynotdivein]

The buildings aren't very far apart. This is speculation here, and I'm no sound engineer, but could the shot have echoed between the buildings?

The one 911 caller who was on the phone when the shot occurred was asked by the 911 dispatcher how many shots fired; she said one. (Scurrying around modding but will bring link here ASAP)

 

[Lovejac]

BBM

They didn't.

I disagree. I know, real shocker there

I consider Trayvon's mom an "expert" on her sons' voice and she said it was him screaming for help.

 

[jjenny]

Isn't this what happened to Natasha Richardson after a skiing accident?

Yes, she believed she was fine and was lucid for while. That's why I am really surprised Zimmerman was not taken to the hospital to have his head checked out.

 

[Isabelle]

Has it been determined who has Trayvon's phone?

 

[jjenny]

Witness on Anderson Cooper 3/29/12-
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/acd.02.html
But I wasn't watching out the window during that. And then the next time I looked out the window, there same thing, two men on the grass, one on top of each other. I kind of felt like that I couldn't see a lot of movement, because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard the gunshots, which, to me, were more like pops than they were like a bang.

COOPER: You say gunshots, plural. Was there more than one, to your memory, or was there just one?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Well, the sound that I had from where I was walking, it was more like a pop, and it definitely was more than one pop noise. So I don't know if it was an echo or anything else, but it definitely made more than one pop. ---

Could it have been the crack noise, followed by the gunshot, that they heard?

Police tested the gun. There was only one bullet fired. Whatever that witness believed he heard, he had to be mistaken.

 

[LambChop]

The buildings aren't very far apart. This is speculation here, and I'm no sound engineer, but could the shot have echoed between the buildings?

The one 911 caller who was on the phone when the shot occurred was asked by the 911 dispatcher how many shots fired; she said one. (Scurrying around modding but will bring link here ASAP)

It's strange but on some of those 911 calls it clearly is one shot and in other's it sounds like one and maybe an echo afterwards. So it must depend on the location where the call originated. jmo

 

[TonyGatto]

NBC apologizes for airing edited version of 911 call placed by George Zimmerman

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...rge-zimmerman-article-1.1055599#ixzz1r2YCKbNY

 

[TonyGatto]

It's strange but on some of those 911 calls it clearly is one shot and in other's it sounds like one and maybe an echo afterwards. So it must depend on the location where the call originated. jmo

There's more than one 911 call with the shot on it?

 

[OneLove]

17 year old boys do not have the mindset of calling 911. Especially if they are people of color. There is a culture thing going on here that people just don't get.

Plus I just can't imagine a 17 year old fella calling 911 and saying "hey, there's a weird guy FOLLOWING ME. He's pretty strange and I'm really SCARED". I don't think most people would think this to be a 911 situation.

I think a lot of us reading here have pretty highly developed hinky meters. Our meters might go off, but RARELY would we call 911 on just a "suspicion". Just because Tray thought GZ was weird and following didn't mean he thought he was homicidal.

I just can't see it. What 17 year old could have even imagined that the strange weird guy would pull a gun and shoot him a few moments later? Why would we blame the dead guy after the fact for not making a call that wouldn't have saved his life anyway?

 

[jjenny]

There's more than one 911 call with the shot on it?

I believe there are two calls where the shot is heard.

 

[uvamerica]

I don't see Trayvon's family teaching him differently than any other mother and father would teach their child? I give his mother more credit than this. Of course she would encourage her son to call 911 and to run if he is scared for his life. I can't imagine any mother telling their child not to run from someone who scares him, and not to call 911 because they'll probably just take their time getting there. In movies, maybe.

LE can't say "when we get a free car". They have to treat every emergency call the same.

We don't know that Trayvon didn't try to call 911 he may have thought about it but this happened so fast.The call was dropped with his Gf, he may have had no time, <modsnip> George was on his heels determined not to let this "one" go. :moo:

 

[TonyGatto]

Plus I just can't imagine a 17 year old fella calling 911 and saying "hey, there's a weird guy FOLLOWING ME. He's pretty strange and I'm really SCARED". I don't think most people would think this to be a 911 situation.

I think a lot of us reading here have pretty highly developed hinky meters. Our meters might go off, but RARELY would we call 911 on just a "suspicion". Just because Tray thought GZ was weird and following didn't mean he thought he was homicidal.

I just can't see it. What 17 year old could have even imagined that the strange weird guy would pull a gun and shoot him a few moments later? Why would we blame the dead guy after the fact for not making a call that wouldn't have saved his life anyway?

And for all this talk about TM not calling 911, why did GZ get OFF the phone with police when he could have stayed on the line. He was the one who was older, more mature, and familiar with police communications.

 

[Reader]

And yet we take the word of his g/f who waited weeks to come forward with sketchy phone bill? Something tangible vs something we've only heard through an attorney and Trayvon's parents. One has no agenda, IMO, the other does, IMO. I have no doubt he was talking to his girlfriend on February 26 - the rest is her word as to what happened, and that's all it will ever be.

There is NO way for any of us to know how he "appeared". We weren't there.

<respectfully snipped>

BBM - It's the same thing for what GZ says...

 

[LambChop]

There's more than one 911 call with the shot on it?

Yes, they were listed a couple of threads back. Plus we've heard them on TV, well I heard them on NG, HLN. Don't normally watch but I did catch a few shows last week. jmo