17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[thefragile7393]

I read this response and I am confused. I understand the age causing the different mindset because the brain is not fully developed at that age, but not the color of the person causing the different mindset doesn't seem valid.

You have to live it to understand it, honestly. It isn't by any means a hard and fast rule, but it is a common line of thinking. I've been told various things.....that calling the cops won't do any good, since they will take their time, if they come at all. That they won't take you seriously. I've been told running makes you look suspicious and if cops are around it makes them want to stop you and ask you about why you're "acting funny."

I'm just repeating a tiny bit of what I remember off the top of my head what some teens at work have told me. These are very common perceptions, among many, that I've heard from mostly non-white teens and even adults.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That is where the character and past behavior stuff comes in. I'd it can be demonstrated that Trayvon was a hot-headed who might very well attack someone who is annoying him (in this case by following and questioning him), then it would be plausible that he was the aggressor, by laying hands on GZ first.

Maybe he could even be believed to be the aggressor if he has burglarized or committed other crimes on the past, because he didn't want to get caught by police.

JMO

To have anything to do with what I posted it would be past behavior in that neighborhood.

 

[LambChop]

That is where the character and past behavior stuff comes in. I'd it can be demonstrated that Trayvon was a hot-headed who might very well attack someone who is annoying him (in this case by following and questioning him), then it would be plausible that he was the aggressor, by laying hands on GZ first.

Maybe he could even be believed to be the aggressor if he has burglarized or committed other crimes on the past, because he didn't want to get caught by police.

JMO

Actually the person you just described as a possibility of being TM is really GZ but just the violence part. jmo

 

[TonyGatto]

I read this response and I am confused. I understand the age causing the different mindset because the brain is not fully developed at that age, but not the color of the person causing the different mindset doesn't seem valid.

Inquisitive, trying to understand

I really have said all I'm willing to say on this, but have you ever read anything about how the minority community views the police, police brutality, how blacks need to be careful, racial profiling, etc? It's really part of the history of America, especially urban America.

 

[HiHater]

Couldn't police check to see if Zimmerman's sweat or skin was on Trayvon's hands? Couldn't DNA from Trayvon have been found on or about Zimmerman's head, ears, and face?

Maybe I watch too much TV, but I'd think there would be some transfer of bodily fluids or cells/tissues...something...

 

[csziggy]

I think they have to be careful at those lights....because you know "some" elderly people can't hear those woop woops. And Florida has a lot of those...elders, not woop woops. jmo

Some of those elders are pretty woops woops! (Thinking back on the elder condo place my parents owned a unit where they had to put up rules about no skinny dipping... :woohoo: )

 

[Reader]

GZ was there she was on a phone plus some eye witness's do match what GZ says happened.

She's the only one who heard what Trayvon and GZ said to each other before the confrontation started.

The witnesses do not all say the same thing and are looking from different points of view, so it's been confusing. What GZ is saying is for his own protection, IMO.

 

[Etilema]

To have anything to do with what I posted it would be past behavior in that neighborhood.

People may not see it that way. They may see a criminal canvassing the neighborhood and attacking someone who he thinks may be about to call the cops on him. People may perceive that a criminal is all the more likely to behave that way when outside of his own turf.

JMO

 

[LambChop]

Some of those elders are pretty woops woops! (Thinking back on the elder condo place my parents owned a unit where they had to put up rules about no skinny dipping... :woohoo: )

My eyes, my eyes....lol

 

[Chris_Texas]

Two witnesses (eyewitnesses) reported that TM and GZ were wrestling in the grass in between two townhomes. I believe them when they say tht b/c they didn't know each other and they both stated the same thing. One is a 13 y o boy. The other is a grown man who said he was steps away from the fight when GZ screamed out to him "help" and he said, "stop please. I'm calling for help". By the time he got to his window to continue monitoring the fight TM had been shot.

What I don't understand is how did TM ended up facedown in the grass. Both accounts stated that TM was on top and GZ on the bottom. The older eyewitness stated that GZ was yellng for help. Why did the experts say that it was TM yelling for help. Why did the screams stop after the shot. I imagine it should have been even more screaming after you've shot someone b/c now you go into rescue mode and out of defensive mode.

Also, if TM was screaming "help, help". Why was he screaming? If you are fighting with someone as both accounts stated why would you be screaming help? I mean people fight all the time and unless your life is in danger and you know it why would you scream such a desperate "help". Sometimes I think that GZ was waving the gun at TM and TM knew that he was going to be shot and he started screaming but the accounts do not support this.

Great questions!

This is what I SUSPECT happened (in my opinion, my opinion only)...

I believe TM was the person primarily screaming and begging during most of the recordings. I believe he likely had a gun in his chest and was begging for his life. Neither of them were actually fighting at that point (nor seriously fighting even prior to this). When the witnesses came out and they both saw them, TM stopped screaming thinking he was safe, and his feelings were probably reinforced when GZ started calling for these guys to call the police. The police were exactly who TM wanted to see at that point.

When the witnesses went back inside, GZ yelled for help and pulled the trigger.

As for how he ended up face down, one easy answer is that GZ had his hand on the kid's sweatshirt and he jerked him forward and off of him.

AGAIN.. MY OPINION ONLY ABOUT ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO! I am not accusing anyone of anything, just speculating.

 

[Bee Happy]

I agree. Those are the gut-wrenching wails of a person in severe distress, imo. To me, it doesn't sound like the stacatto cries you hear during a series of sudden blows. It's different, more sustained. I didn't think of a headlock, but that makes sense. Actually, I wondered if GZ grabbed TM below the waist to disable him. I might be totally off base, but that's my perception of the sounds on that tape. My untrained ears also tell me it's a second voice crying "help me" in that instant before we hear the gunshot. JMO

GZ says he was screaming for help, but what we hear on the call is mostly wailing. Did he claim this was also him?

 

[Etilema]

I really have said all I'm willing to say on this, but have you ever read anything about how the minority community views the police, police brutality, how blacks need to be careful, racial profiling, etc? It's really part of the history of America, especially urban America.

I don't even know that it's just urban. A lot of horrible things have happened to black people in rural areas.

JMO

 

[mikeysmommom]

I remember that the next time someone is following me with a dog. Not everyone is a GZ. Bet 911 is glad about that. lol

hey I pay a lot of taxes for my home ,I pay their salaries and support LE we all have LE plates.I also send in donations,so I have never had a problem calling 911 and they have never had a problem with me calling.IMO any stranger following you can be fatal.I wonder if a simple 911 call might have stop this from happening.

 

[csziggy]

My grandpa got in the wrong car at the store and put his key in it and it worked and was driving away when the owner flagged him down. LOL LOL

OT but:
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Get out of the car.jpg

 

[suzihawk]

My daughter knew how to dial 911 in the first grade - I don't find this an excuse - they are not children, they are teenagers.

I would assume your daughter has never been in the extremely dire situation that Trayvon was faced with? When I was approached and subsequently strong armed by a mugger, I was absolutely paralyzed in fear for my life. I didn't have a cell phone at the time, but I don't think I would have had the presence of mind to dial 911 and I was in my 40s at the time. The fact is, no one knows how they would react in such a situation - until faced with it. No matter how much 'training' one has had. JMO

 

[TonyGatto]

GZ says he was screaming for help, but what we hear on the call is mostly wailing. Did he claim this was also him?

That's true. Someone suggested it's TM wailing until the very last moment where there are a couple of quick calls for help (GZ). Do you think there are two voices?

 

[vlpate]

Respectfully snipped for focus.

1. Supposition: Trayvon could have been walking slowly in the dusk, even with rain falling, because he was finally able to talk to his gf away from his fam. He may have been looking around at the houses because he wasn't entirely familiar with where he needed to turn right to get back to where he was staying.

2. There is nothing in MSM to indicate that Tray was staggering, or had any reason to be staggering. Tox tests were apparently performed during his autopsy. Please support inferences with facts.

From what I understand, I may "infer" from the facts of the case. People who "look like they are on drugs" often "stagger".
"He looks like he is on drugs or something" - 911 call
Fact: He was caught with drug residue in his backpack.

ETA: The quotes in the post you are referring to were not mine, they were Highflyers - perhaps they looked like I wrote them??

 

[Bee Happy]

It may be a cultural issue but JMO.It is not a smart one. Unless your doing something you should not be doing safest thing when being followed is to call 911.

Cultural issue? Really?

Not really sure about that one.
Maybe a social class issue.

LOL. I've been black, for just about my whole life and I've never met, or associated with anyone that wouldn't call the police. Unless they thought the situation didn't warrant it. OR unless they've had an incident with a particular cop or department. Which was rare.

I can't stand to read these stereotypes...
I hope people are basing them off of movies they watch.

:banghead:

 

[Bee Happy]

Like Judge Judy says, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true...

:moo::twocents:

I absolutely LOVE Judge Judy!

 

[Etilema]

That's true. Someone suggested it's TM wailing until the very last moment where there are a couple of quick calls for help (GZ). Do you think there are two voices?

Great question for the voice analysis experts!