17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[ecs5298]

It appears GZ has a bruise or gash on his head from the pictures but how well do the paramedic's clean up a victim if they find no injuries or open wounds. Do they make sure that all the blood is cleaned off him or could those red spots we see in the video be dried blood from TM? jmo

If it were me, I would have offered to clean him up a bit. It's just the right/nice thing to do. I can't say that they did or didn't but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they cleaned him up a bit if/when he refused transport. He may not have been spic n' span clean but they might have wiped off some of the major blood. We carry anti-bacterial/anti-viral wipes for just such occasions.

 

[Angelonline]

I had two 1 inch cuts on the back of my head from getting it slammed into cement by my marine brother in-law while we were both home from leave at the same time. During the ride to he hospital to get it sewn up my sister was holding a towel on my head. When we got there the towel and my shirt were soaked with blood. The whole shirt was soaked in blood, top to bottom.

Head wounds that break the skin, normally bleed profusely, due to the blood supply to the head.

 

[ecs5298]

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/pdf/efop/efo45391.pdf

Here is the standard of care protocol review for Sanford which emphasizes report writing..

If Mr. Zimmerman was not transported I have no doubt he signed a refusal of care form. I served in another state for 10 years as an FF/EMT. Believe me if someone refuses to go to the hospital they sign a form that says they refuse transport. It is CYA to avoid lawsuits. However there are protocols in every department which state that you can involve law enforcement to force a transport if you feel the refusal would be severely detrimental to the well being of the patient and that the person refusing transportation is not able to make that determination on their own.

Pay particular attention to page 31 & 32. It spells out what must be on the report. It specifically specifies refusal to care or as we used to refer to it, refusal for transport.

Sanford is a full-time department with over 400 employees both Basic level and paramedic level. This is a peer review document. To teach how to write reports in a consistent uniform manner and to review whether their reports meet the standards set for this agency. Recommendations were made at the end of this report for improvement. This is a very progressive step in ensuring this department met all requirements of quality patient care in reporting IMO.

The medical records of Mr. Zimmerman can be subpenaed. They will be detailed to the specifics of each and every injury.

edited to add the last phrase in bold because ECS is correct if they are of sane mind you cannot force the transport.

Thanks GrandmaJ. They would have to follow their local protocols and they might have to get their medical control involved if their protocols demand it (our system doesn't). You are correct that there are ways that you can take someone against their will but it doesn't happen too often. I've only done it a couple of times in 25 years and they were pretty out of the ordinary circumstances.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Can anyone write a blog on Webslueths? I would love to write a blog? I have so many things going through my mind that I would like to express that I know would not apply to just this thread?

 

[razorback]

I had two 1 inch cuts on the back of my head from getting it slammed into cement by my marine brother in-law while we were both home from leave at the same time. During the ride to he hospital to get it sewn up my sister was holding a towel on my head. When we got there the towel and my shirt were soaked with blood. The whole shirt was soaked in blood, top to bottom.

:seeya:

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

It was at least two times. LOL I was drunk though so I was feelin no pain.:rocker:

:floorlaugh:Starting to understand so many things better now. :slap:

 

[LolaMoon08]

Can anyone write a blog on Webslueths? I would love to write a blog? I have so many things going through my mind that I would like to express that I know would not apply to just this thread?

ETA: I see how I can start a blog! I should have looked before posting!

 

[ecs5298]

Head wounds that break the skin, normally bleed profusely, due to the blood supply to the head.

Not necessarily. I've seen minor scratches bleed like a stuck pig and I've seen deep lacerations that hardly bled at all. In general, the head is very vascular but there are many factors as to how much an individual bleeds and for how long they bleed.

 

[grandmaj]

Thanks GrandmaJ. They would have to follow their local protocols and they might have to get their medical control involved if their protocols demand it (our system doesn't). You are correct that there are ways that you can take someone against their will but it doesn't happen too often. I've only done it a couple of times in 25 years and they were pretty out of the ordinary circumstances.

Absolutely true. I had a few and they were head injuries where the person was combative, confused and the mechanism of injury was such that we suspected closed head injury.

I feel confident that the department EMS did not suspect any major injury in that Mr. Zimmerman refused, he was oriented, and EMS allowed the refusal.

Thanks for your insight. :blowkiss:

 

[Boytwnmom]

on Piers. Caveat: I only heard Piers say they said that as I missed the actual lawyers! But there was some discussion about it and that's when one of the lawyers said how he didn't need to meet with him and how the police had done a voice stress test. That's about all I got from it.

My not very nice, but quite possible thought is that the lawyers have deliberately stayed away so they will not be restricting themselves regarding testimony and evidence they may want to introduce like, for example, about GZ's horrible injuries. In general, ethical rules prohibit certain things that may come into play here. A lawyer can't make a false statement of fact to a court, a lawyer can't make a false statement of material fact to a third person and a lawyer can't engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation. So, the less you know the more you can allow to be introduced. That's also why most attorneys don't want to know if you're guilty because that really ties their hands! Who ever said a trial was a search for truth was probably never in a courtroom, especially not in FL! (not fair, I know, but the Pinellas 12 will never be forgotten!)

I read an article about GZ's lawyer that said they have only talked by phone. Will get back with the link in a sec....

 

[Reader]

Zimmerman's lawyer: Cub Scout leader, martial-arts expert, one-man law firm

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...n-lawyer-sonner-20120403,0,2775283,full.story

Craig Sonner has never defended a client accused in a homicide, but he now represents George Zimmerman, the man at the center of one of the nation's most racially divisive shootings in years.

And Sonner predicts he'll have no problem clearing Zimmerman.

"I believed his story of how he was defending himself," said 47-year-old Sonner, a one-man Altamonte Springs law firm. "I've already got a number of experts lined up to take this one … I don't think we're going to have a problem exonerating George Zimmerman."
-------

Sonner said the night he walked off the [O'Donnell] set that the "only reason I'm talking now is that this case has spun so out of control," he said. Zimmerman "is not a racist. This was a case of self-defense."

And Sonner is no longer Zimmerman's lone defender.

Late Tuesday, veteran Orlando-area criminal-defense attorney Hal Uhrig, who often works on cases with Sonner, announced that he was joining the defense team.

He is confident of their client's self-defense claim, Uhrig told WOFL, in part because Zimmerman has already passed a voice-stress test, something similar to a lie-detector test, administered by Sanford police.

Both lawyers said they never have met Zimmerman face to face.

"Because of the danger he faces, we communicate only by phone," Sonner said.
-------

As of Tuesday morning, neither Sonner nor Zimmerman had talked with anyone in the office of Special Prosecutor Angela Corey, the state attorney appointed by Gov. Rick Scott to take over the investigation and decide whether to charge Zimmerman.

If she convenes a grand jury, Zimmerman will be there, Sonner said. If she calls, saying she's going to file charges, Zimmerman will surrender.

"It's still true that we're cooperating fully with law enforcement," Sonner said.

The basis of his defense: Florida's stand-your-ground law, which allows a person who reasonably fears imminent death or great bodily harm to use lethal force.


More at link....

 

[LambChop]

Absolutely true. I had a few and they were head injuries where the person was combative, confused and the mechanism of injury was such that we suspected closed head injury.

I feel confident that the department EMS did not suspect any major injury in that Mr. Zimmerman refused, he was oriented, and EMS allowed the refusal.

Thanks for your insight. :blowkiss:

It was reported (and you may not know if this is possible) that GZ had a gash on his head and went to the doctor's the following day only to have the doctor say that the injury had healed and he could no longer do stitches? Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Beyond Belief]

At least 3 times I have stood up and whacked the back of my head on our steel hurricane awning, not alot of blood but definite black out for a few seconds and a few seconds to come out of the stunned state. imo

 

[Nova]

"George would stick up for a chubby boy in the neighborhood who was being bullied, recalled Austin (who, like Stephanie, asked that his last name not be used). “And if George saw bullies walking by his house, he would pull out his hose and spray them down and tell them they were wasting their time and to go and do something else.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...-review-of-ideals.html?pagewanted=4&src=twrhp

Spraying kids he believed to be bullies just for walking down his street?

Okay, THAT's out of line and a far cry from what has been discussed here for so many pages.

And the reason it is wrong is not because water is going to kill a kid, but because GZ seems to have appointed himself judge, jury and executioner and found nothing wrong with doing so. Which in turn may have everything to do with what happened to TM.

 

[TonyGatto]

on Piers. Caveat: I only heard Piers say they said that as I missed the actual lawyers! But there was some discussion about it and that's when one of the lawyers said how he didn't need to meet with him and how the police had done a voice stress test. That's about all I got from it.

My not very nice, but quite possible thought is that the lawyers have deliberately stayed away so they will not be restricting themselves regarding testimony and evidence they may want to introduce like, for example, about GZ's horrible injuries. In general, ethical rules prohibit certain things that may come into play here. A lawyer can't make a false statement of fact to a court, a lawyer can't make a false statement of material fact to a third person and a lawyer can't engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation. So, the less you know the more you can allow to be introduced. That's also why most attorneys don't want to know if you're guilty because that really ties their hands! Who ever said a trial was a search for truth was probably never in a courtroom, especially not in FL! (not fair, I know, but the Pinellas 12 will never be forgotten!)

I can't remember a case where defense attorneys don't meet with their client in person.

 

[Boytwnmom]

fell and hit his head on the drawer corner of his captains bed. His brother started screaming and we ran in and A's back was covered in blood. I was never so scared in my life-I thought he was going to bleed to death-he was totally freaked out and so was B. We lived out in the country then, no local police dept, volunteer fire and the nearest ambulance was in the next town where the hospital was so we just drove right to the ER where they calmly stapled the back of his head together and calmed him down. Poor B though was so freaked he couldn't stop crying about his brothers head, all the blood and the STAPLE-they put a big staple in his head-he never did get over THAT! A didn't care because he couldn't SEE it.

Head wounds that break the skin, normally bleed profusely, due to the blood supply to the head.

 

[LambChop]

I can't remember a case where defense attorneys don't meet with their client in person.

I would think initial eye contact would be important. jmo

 

[Nova]

The public's opinion on whether a crime has been committed isn't as relevant as the criminal justice system's opinion.

Since I don't see any crime was committed, maybe I kind of have myopic vision on this and don't understand where anyone else sees a crime. It's not a crime to disobey a dispatcher's suggestion. It's not a crime to follow someone after you've called LE. It's not a crime to shoot to kill if you're being beaten up. I don't see any crimes here.

I assume it also is not a crime to fight back against an assailant with a gun.

So I guess this is just a case of "Oopsy daisy! No harm, no foul."

Except a kid is dead.

 

[suzihawk]

I would think initial eye contact would be important. jmo

Uhrig said he didn't feel the need to see his client eye to eye.

 

[vlpate]

Head wounds that break the skin, normally bleed profusely, due to the blood supply to the head.

Right, which makes my point - blood loss from a head wound only makes it look worse than it is. IOW, if he had blood dripping from his ears, I think the same conversation would be going on. "All that blood means nothing, a small head wound would cause massive blood loss". JMO