17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[vlpate]

I think the fact that the time of the gunshot is on record is very important. There are people that are defending GZ so staunchly .. that they have gone so far as to imply tht the SYG laws only apply to GZ. So, as TM's attorney bought up this evening on Piers.. The phone records show that TM was on the phone with his girlfriend and the call ended at 7:12p. If TM is shot at 7:16p please explain to me how all of this took place that GZ's team is referring to?

The call with his girlfriend initiated at 7:12 and ended when Trayvon confronted GZ - according to the girlfriend and Crump.

 

[crocus]

Sorry never watch Fox. Bad for my blood pressure. Is GZ's father depicted like Alfred Hitchcock again?.

How about MSNBC? CNN? NBC? ABC? lol lol

 

[legalmania]

I only found two statutes that mentioned polygraphs so far. One said they cannot be funded by the state and this is the second, that seems to be for sex offenders or probation. There may be more, feel free to look. BBM

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=polygraph&URL=0900-0999/0948/Sections/0948.30.html

[SIZE=-1](a) As part of a treatment program, participation at least annually in polygraph examinations to obtain information necessary for risk management and treatment and to reduce the sex offender’s denial mechanisms. A polygraph examination must be conducted by a polygrapher who is a member of a national or state polygraph association and who is certified as a postconviction sex offender polygrapher, where available, and shall be paid for by the probationer or community controllee. The results of the polygraph examination shall be provided to the probationer’s or community controllee’s probation officer and qualified practitioner and shall not be used as evidence in court to prove that a violation of community supervision has occurred.
[/SIZE]

 

[TonyGatto]

I think the fact that the time of the gunshot is on record is very important. There are people that are defending GZ so staunchly .. that they have gone so far as to imply tht the SYG laws only apply to GZ. So, as TM's attorney bought up this evening on Piers.. The phone records show that TM was on the phone with his girlfriend and the call ended at 7:12p. If TM is shot at 7:16p please explain to me how all of this took place that GZ's team is referring to?

NO! The call BEGAN at 7:12 and ended at 7:16. If the shot rang out at 7:16:44 that is totally consistent with the GF's story. And if the phone logs show the call ending at 7:16 -- that means it could have ended anywhere from 7:16:00 to 7:16:59. We're talking a matter of seconds. I THINK WE JUST FIGURED SOMETHING OUT HERE!!!

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

<modsnip>

Was just providing a link so I don't know but here's a wiki link with more info. HTH

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_stress_analysis"]Voice stress analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[vlpate]

EMS is run by Seminole County EMS/Fire/Rescue so they may have had and engine first respond as well as an ambulance. They have 17 ALS ambulances for the county and they operate under a "First Response Mutual Aid system" meaning that they can send resources from other jurisdictions if they are closest to the call. Typically, the fire engines may have medical trained personnel on them but the treatment and transporting is done by the ambulance. There may have been more personnel on the scene than we know.

Thank you - your professional input is very insightful and clears a lot up!

 

[rotterdam]

How about MSNBC? CNN? NBC? ABC? lol lol

They are ok. CBS too. My favorite is PBS though.

 

[frenchvixen]

From the link above

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...n-lawyer-sonner-20120403,0,2775283,full.story




Question: How can he claim this defense when HE was the one to pursue and confront Trayvon?

If he was in fear of Trayvon all he had to do was stay in his vehicle and let the LE, who he himself had called, do their job.

If you are in fear of someone you don't chase them, start an argument which leads to a fight which you know you can win because you have a gun, and FINALLY can stop those ******** from getting away....

Oh, wait.....

IMO

I can't understand how he can use that defense. GM's actions don't show that he "reasonably feared" for his safety. If a person fears for their safety they do not purposely put themselves in harms way. That is not reasonable. It's interesting that it states that he "reasonably feared" meaning if he even thought out of paranoia that TM was packing he can shoot him. So, even if TM is not packing but GZ THINKS that he is than he can defend himself. But, why would you put yourself in harm's way and then claim self defense?

 

[ecs5298]

Thank you - your professional input is very insightful and clears a lot up!

I deleted that post since it was too far gone to correct. Sanford Fire runs 3 of it's own ALS units inside the city of Sanford. I'm sure they mutual aid with Seminole County EMS but it's unknown if SFD also responds an engine on medicals since it is a small department.

 

[Cher352]

Shoot, I missed it. Was GZ's father is shadow?

Do you mean in silhouette? If so yes, because of death threats the family has been receiving. He gave a little more detail on the path that GZ took and they discussed the one witness that actually was out there when the fighting occurred. Said all GZ's family and friends believe that was GZ's voice on the tape yelling for help. Of course his lawyers say that once all the evidence is out it will show GZ's story to be true or something to that effect.

And they did discuss briefly the bounty by the New Black Panthers. Sure that it will be addressed sooner or later by LE.

(all this from memory only)

 

[vlpate]

NO! The call BEGAN at 7:12 and ended at 7:16. If the shot rang out at 7:16:44 that is totally consistent with the GF's story. And if the phone logs show the call ending at 7:16 -- that means it could have ended anywhere from 7:16:00 to 7:16:59. We're talking a matter of seconds. I THINK WE JUST FIGURED SOMETHING OUT HERE!!!

Which came first, the release of the 911 calls or the girl's story? I haven't seen an actual log from her phone. The duration of the call would be on both their phone logs, right? They're just not showing that page to media.

 

[Reader]

<modsnip>

I see Helplessly Hoping already posted but here are a few quotes:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_stress_analysis"]Voice stress analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Voice Stress Analysis (VSA) technology is said to record psychophysiological stress responses that are present in human voice, when a person suffers psychological stress in response to a stimulus (question) and where the consequences may be dire for the subject being 'tested'.[1]

In the Detection Of Deception (DOD) scenario, the voice-stress produced in response to a Relevant Question ("did you do it?") is referred to as psychological stress or 'deceptive stress'. No DOD technology can detect a lie or truth unequivocally. It is the fear of being exposed to the question being posed that produces the 'high stress' voice signature, aka voice graph or voice tracing.

The technique's accuracy remains debated. There are independent research studies that support the use of VSA as a reliable lie detection technology, whilst there are other studies that dispute its reliability.[2][3]
------
Federally funded research via the American Polygraph Association in the United States showed "little validity" in the technique. This study can be considered to be biased.[5]

Air Force Research Laboratory[6] conducted validation studies into VSA and concluded that mainstream VSA[7] were as reliable as polygraph when used by expertly trained examiner-operators.

There is tension between the voice stress analysis community and the polygraph community, due in the main to the fact that the polygraph is heavily regulated and has been subject to numerous detailed, contentious scientific studies, while voice stress analysis is largely unregulated. However, there are studies which show results better than chance.[8]

Not worth much sounds to me...IMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Which came first, the release of the 911 calls or the girl's story? I haven't seen an actual log from her phone. The duration of the call would be on both their phone logs, right? They're just not showing that page to media.

That's a good question. Why hasn't the GF's phone records be released to the press to prove when and how long she talked to Trayvon?

 

[HiHater]

Defining a Hate Crime

A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation." Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

So, if GZ was pursuing Trayvon and targeting him because of the burglaries, he was doing so in part because Trayvon was black and fit the profile? Or would he have to have some other bias against blacks that would be proven some other way (i.e. the racial slur)? Wondering aloud...

I need to wake up tomorrow and see George Zimmerman is in :jail:

 

[TonyGatto]

This isn't looking good for GZ. He is going to have to say he had to kill Trayvon during an altercation that lasted less than a minute. Or, he is going to have to say the alteration was longer than that and TM was on the phone during it. And it's going to contradict what the 16 old girl says -- who I think is going to be a credible witness.

 

[HiHater]

That's a good question. Why hasn't the GF's phone records be released to the press to prove when and how long she talked to Trayvon?

Her phone records should show the exact same thing as Trayvon's?

 

[HiHater]

This isn't looking good for GZ. He is going to have to say he had to kill Trayvon during an altercation that lasted less than a minute. Or, he is going to have to say the alteration was longer than that and TM was on the phone during it. And it's going to contradict what the 16 old girl says -- who I think is going to be a credible witness.

I think so too. She is locked into her statement, as it was recorded. She's 16, and really has no reason to lie...

 

[vlpate]

Piers Morgan did an awful job. He was not up on his facts, not realizing that it's NOT against the law for GZ to have had a gun as captain of the NW. He started out by saying the "vast majority of Americans" think GZ should be arrested. Fell into the trap of saying cops told him to "stop" following TM. I like Piers -- but he just did not have his facts and it showed. As I posted during the broadcast -- he could take a lesson or two from Lawrence O'Donnell.

BEM: Right there is the answer - he's playing to that vast majority for ratings, IMO. He missed a memo.

 

[csziggy]

I think the fact that the time of the gunshot is on record is very important. There are people that are defending GZ so staunchly .. that they have gone so far as to imply tht the SYG laws only apply to GZ. So, as TM's attorney bought up this evening on Piers.. The phone records show that TM was on the phone with his girlfriend and the call ended at 7:12p. If TM is shot at 7:16p please explain to me how all of this took place that GZ's team is referring to?

The girlfriend's last call began at 7:12 and lasted 4 minutes - from the screen shot of the call log of TM's phone on CNN. The first 911 call began at 7:16 - the one with the screams and the gunshot at 44 seconds into the call.

GZ's call to the SPD ended at 7:13:41. He'd lost sight of TM just before TM's girlfriend's call started.

So there is very little time to have things happen. Two minutes and maybe twenty seconds. No confrontation between GZ and Trayvon was caught on any recording unless you count the screams on the 911 recording.

The girlfriend said TM asked, "Why are you following me?" and GZ said, "What are you doing here?" just before her call was cut off. If her story is accurate, the screams heard on the 911 recording began immediately after that exchange.

I'm too tired to dig out links right now, but I do have them.

 

[TonyGatto]

That's a good question. Why hasn't the GF's phone records be released to the press to prove when and how long she talked to Trayvon?

I believe they were by Crump. He had that big ol newser and even held the audio recorder up and played her voice. I think he showed the records to the press -- but didn't actually hand the records over. But it's well documented, many articles -- Crump saying they spoke on the phone all day and the last call was from 7:12 to 7:16.