17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[Elley Mae]

I've talked with several people online who have cancelled vacations in Florida as a protest about the TM case. Some of them have written the Governor telling him WHY they will not be visiting Florida as long as the Stand Your Ground law is still in effect.

Florida has always been very sensitive to issues that will affect tourism since it is such a large part of the state's economy. They can't afford to have tourists too afraid to visit.

Years ago, after the German tourists were killed at a rest stop, Florida added security at the interstate rest stops that continues to this day - the stops where there is no security are locked at night.

The Florida tourism industry is very powerful and if they push to get rid of the Stand Your Ground law, it could be gone by the end of the next session of the legislature no matter what the NRA says.

IMO, JMO, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

and this one just recent

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

The garbled word that raised controversy was "punks," not "coons," said Tom Owen, chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence.

Well Well Well

Huh?

Zimmerman told his lawyers that he said "These f---ing punks always get away," his lawyers told CNN on Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

 

[Elley Mae]

The Media is not our friend. jmo

 

[CathyinTexas]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

and this one just recent

I am sure the FBI has voice enhancement. Can't wait till we hear what their opinion is.

 

[LambChop]

I've talked with several people online who have cancelled vacations in Florida as a protest about the TM case. Some of them have written the Governor telling him WHY they will not be visiting Florida as long as the Stand Your Ground law is still in effect.

Florida has always been very sensitive to issues that will affect tourism since it is such a large part of the state's economy. They can't afford to have tourists too afraid to visit.

Years ago, after the German tourists were killed at a rest stop, Florida added security at the interstate rest stops that continues to this day - the stops where there is no security are locked at night.

The Florida tourism industry is very powerful and if they push to get rid of the Stand Your Ground law, it could be gone by the end of the next session of the legislature no matter what the NRA says.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Plus a tourist is at a disadvantage coming into Florida because you wouldn't have a license to carry a gun in that state. Are licenses to carry a concealed weapon restructed to the state you live in only? jmo

 

[Gin]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

The garbled word that raised controversy was "punks," not "coons," said Tom Owen, chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence.

Well Well Well

JMO, I don't think following an African American teen and swearing F***ing punks makes GZ look like a racial bias free choir boy. It's only slightly "better" than just going all the way with C****. Either way, we get his biased view of AA teens. :maddening:

 

[raeann]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

The garbled word that raised controversy was "punks," not "coons," said Tom Owen, chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence.

Well Well Well

Either way it has NEVER really mattered....the snarled under the breath vindictive remark shows hatred, prejudice, and completely unfounded anger....Treyvon was never a punk, nor a goon and certainly not that other word.....

It is the attitude and INTENT of GZ that matters....any word you decide that you hear....it does NOT indicate impartial good will or sound judgement!

jmo

 

[csziggy]

I don't see the SYG law and the CC permit as one in the same. When a state grants a permit for cc a person then has the right to do just that (carry the weapon concealed). Then the same state has a SYG law in place that means you are justified to defend yourself in your home. The issue is not the gun the issue is whether GZ killed TM in self defense. He could have had a knife. jmo

The Stand You Ground law takes the traditional "Castle" concept out of the home and applies it to anywhere a person might be. The Castle tradition has always given the right to defend yourself in your home. Self defense has always given the right to defend your person.

The difference with Stand Your Ground is that it allows a person who simply perceives a threat - but who might not actually BE threatened - to use the same force to react to that threat as they would to protect their home or their person from an actual threat. Then the law reduces the requirement for law enforcement to investigate and pretty much requires that LE take at face value the word of the survivor of any confrontation in which SYG is invoked.

I am not a lawyer or in law enforcement, but I think as written in Florida and in a number of other states (since many states are using the same template for SYG laws) oversteps what should be allowed. The previous laws for defending your home and your person were not deficient and there was no pressing reason for the changes in the SYG law.

Concealed carry permits are completely separate from the SYG law other than I see both as paranoid responses to imaginary threats.

JMO, IMO, etc.

 

[tehcloser]

Zimmerman's 911 call: Audio enhanced again - YouTube

This cnn ink says it was "cold"....and now we hear on cnn it was "punks".....:floorlaugh:

 

[katydid23]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

The garbled word that raised controversy was "punks," not "coons," said Tom Owen, chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence.

Well Well Well

Very interesting. I have noticed that a lot of people are using that alleged racial slur as the reason they know he is guilty of murder. I wonder if this will change anyone's opinion.

ETA: I guess not...

 

[frenchvixen]

NO! The call BEGAN at 7:12 and ended at 7:16. If the shot rang out at 7:16:44 that is totally consistent with the GF's story. And if the phone logs show the call ending at 7:16 -- that means it could have ended anywhere from 7:16:00 to 7:16:59. We're talking a matter of seconds. I THINK WE JUST FIGURED SOMETHING OUT HERE!!!

Good afternoon TG, I know I read many times that the call ended at 7:16p but I just cannot understand how all this fighting and wrestling and punching in the nose and bashing the head to the sidewalk (not to mention the neighbors hearing and screaming "STOP") took place in 30 seconds. Can someone please explain this to me? Either the phone records are wrong or the eyewitnesses are wrong.

I have a question for the attorneys or experts here. If it comes down to believing the eyewitnesses or the 911 calls if they conflict which will be admissible during the grand jury? They both can't be right.

 

[tehcloser]

Hold onnnnnnnnnnnnn.
If we are going to believe this expert on "punks" are we also gonna believe him on this:

While Zimmerman's lawyers may welcome Owen's analysis of their client's 911 call, they disagree with his conclusions about what is heard on another 911 recording.


Owen and another audio expert, Ed Primeau, analyzed the recording for the Sentinel using different techniques, and they said they don't believe it is Zimmerman who is heard yelling in the background of one 911 call.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html


quite the quandry.............innit?

 

[katydid23]

We know he filled out an application of some kind where he stated he wanted to be and planned to be a law enforcement officer. So why wasn't he? What kept him from becoming a police officer?

Maybe the arrest for 'assaulting a police officer' had something to do with it.

 

[Inabsentia]

Plus a tourist is at a disadvantage coming into Florida because you wouldn't have a license to carry a gun in that state. Are licenses to carry a concealed weapon restructed to the state you live in only? jmo

My Dad is a dealer with a cc permit. My understanding is that various states have reciprocal arrangements with various other states.

 

[csziggy]

Who is this John person who won't show his face and where is his 911 call? IMO.

Sent from my Huawei U8800-51 using Tapatalk

There is one 911 call from a man - http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call2.wav

But what is on that recording doesn't really match the "John" story. His call starts after the shot since he begins by saying there had been a shot. He does say "They're wrestling right in the back of my porch." But he does not say anything about who was on top before the shot.

There may have been another person at that location, though, since at one point after an address or phone number is blanked out the recording resumes as the caller says "Sanford Police" as if her's telling someone else that he is on the line with SPD.

 

[Elley Mae]

JMO, I don't think following an African American teen and swearing F***ing punks makes GZ look like a racial bias free choir boy. It's only slightly "better" than just going all the way with C****. Either way, we get his biased view of AA teens. :maddening:

As we know from the 911 calls, GZ did not know TM was AA till TM turned and faced him it was at that point that GZ could then see and only then that TM was AA. And at 6'4" I do not see how GZ could tell that TM was a teen. Maybe it was the hoodie that caused him to say F***ing punks. jmo idk

When I scared a guy? in a hoodie away about 2 months ago at 3 in the morn I said worst then F***ing punks. and it wasn't racial either.

 

[gxm]

JMO, I don't think following an African American teen and swearing F***ing punks makes GZ look like a racial bias free choir boy. It's only slightly "better" than just going all the way with C****. Either way, we get his biased view of AA teens. :maddening:

I totally disagree. "Punks" is not a race-specific slur. IMO, it's not even a slur. Without the racial slur, it will be very hard to press hate crime charges, much less convict on basically nothing other than TM was an AA teen and the person who shot him is a 20-something Hispanic man.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[katydid23]

Hold onnnnnnnnnnnnn.
If we are going to believe this expert on "punks" are we also gonna believe him on this:

While Zimmerman's lawyers may welcome Owen's analysis of their client's 911 call, they disagree with his conclusions about what is heard on another 911 recording.


Owen and another audio expert, Ed Primeau, analyzed the recording for the Sentinel using different techniques, and they said they don't believe it is Zimmerman who is heard yelling in the background of one 911 call.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

Everybody was quick to accept his opinion on Zimmernmna being disqualified as the screamer. So are we having trouble accepting his opinion on the slur word?

 

[Adrienne37]

Each time, the clicking is a series of three clicks - wouldn't a safety be a click on and a click off? Of course, if GZ were playing with the safety and clicking it off, on off; on, off, on; off, on, off; etc. he could have left it the safety off while thinking it was on and that could have been the cause of the shooting. GZ pulls his gun, thinking the safety is on, then because it is off he shoots TM when he doesn't mean to.

GZ would still be responsible for TM's death because he would have violated any number of gun safety rules.

Frankly, while I consider GZ fully responsible for TM's death no matter how the final moments came down, I don't think GZ went hunting for TM with the intention of killing him. I see GZ as sloppy, careless, and irrepsonsible, wanting to be the enforcer in that neighborhood and as FT said, fed up with what GZ sees as a crime wave. I think GZ should never have been allowed to own a gun because of his past indications of poor impulse control. He should not have been a neighborhood watch volunteer since he had already shown a propensity for taking the law into his own hands.

IMO, JMO, etc.

I agree with your post csziggy; however, I still maintain that his intentions were nothing less than premeditated when he made the decision to step out of his vehicle with his loaded weapon on his person despite being told by 911 not to pursue. Premeditation can be formed literally in 1 second. While I wish he could be charged with first degree murder, I seriously doubt that will happen but personally I'd like to see him sitting behind bars for the rest of his natural life or even subjected to the death penalty for what he has done to Trayvon and his family. He took the laws into his hands and Trayvon paid the ultimate price.


~jmo~

 

[frenchvixen]

I thought he said he wasn't going to run?

When the phone calls of the girlfriend to TM and the 911 calls are juxtapoxed it is so vivid. You get to see both sides' viewpoint and it's so frightening. It's dark, this boy is not on his turf, someone is following him in a manner that he deems to be life threatening. On the other hand GZ has something else playing in his mind. He thinks his territory is under siege by a teenager.. the black teenagers that have been burglarizing the homes for the past few months. It's so high charged. If it were a movie I would literally been sitting at the edge of my chair screaming, "Run Trayvon, Run" and hoping that the evil watchman trips or falls but the watchman is in pursuit after the younger one and then.. well you know the ending. Too bad this is real life. It's interesting to read both sides as it happens (with the 911 calls and the phone calls from TM to his GF)