17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[vlpate]

Each time, the clicking is a series of three clicks - wouldn't a safety be a click on and a click off? Of course, if GZ were playing with the safety and clicking it off, on off; on, off, on; off, on, off; etc. he could have left it the safety off while thinking it was on and that could have been the cause of the shooting. GZ pulls his gun, thinking the safety is on, then because it is off he shoots TM when he doesn't mean to.

I looked up information about the gun Zimmerman carried, a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm semi-automatic pistoll It has a five-pound trigger pull and an automatic hammer block safety. IOW, as I understand it, the only way to disengage the safety is to shoot the gun.

<snipped respectfully>

 

[Dr.Fessel]

As we know from the 911 calls, GZ did not know TM was AA till TM turned and faced him it was at that point that GZ could then see and only then that TM was AA. And at 6'4" I do not see how GZ could tell that TM was a teen. Maybe it was the hoodie that caused him to say F***ing punks. jmo idk

When I scared a guy? in a hoodie away about 2 months ago at 3 in the morn I said worst then F***ing punks. and it wasn't racial either.

He nailed Martin's age in the tape pretty close. He said late teens.

 

[Gin]

I've talked with several people online who have cancelled vacations in Florida as a protest about the TM case. Some of them have written the Governor telling him WHY they will not be visiting Florida as long as the Stand Your Ground law is still in effect.

Florida has always been very sensitive to issues that will affect tourism since it is such a large part of the state's economy. They can't afford to have tourists too afraid to visit.

Years ago, after the German tourists were killed at a rest stop, Florida added security at the interstate rest stops that continues to this day - the stops where there is no security are locked at night.

The Florida tourism industry is very powerful and if they push to get rid of the Stand Your Ground law, it could be gone by the end of the next session of the legislature no matter what the NRA says.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Good to know. I do think the Florida Tourist Board has an obligation to warn visitors about this law when they arrive in Florida.

Welcome to Florida! Sun, Sand, and Stand Your Ground. Ugh. :banghead:

 

[tehcloser]

Everybody was quick to accept his opinion on Zimmernmna being disqualified as the screamer. So are we having trouble accepting his opinion on the slur word?

:floorlaugh: Not a bit...just wondering if those who disagreed with him about TM being the one screaming were ready to accept that it was.

 

[Steft50]

I'd like to know the positions of their bodies. For instance, could they have both been on their backs with GZ on bottom while holding Tray on top while wrestling? I have assumed that they were face to face while on the ground but don't recall reading such.

The only thing I have read with specifics is that GZ was staddling Tray, who was face down on the ground after the shooting.

Just trying to think outside the box. I am waaaay behind as my computer is still :maddening:

MOO Tia, wm

morning all!

I'd like to know how far away this witness was to the altercation, what was the lighting? It was after 7pm, before the time change? So dusk at the least, dark at the most. Porch lights only light so far....how far away was this witness? What is his age? I don't know about others but I can't really tell darker colors in the dark. Darker grays, blacks, dark reds, dark blues...they are going to look like shades of dark colors to me.....

 

[gxm]

Good afternoon TG, I know I read many times that the call ended at 7:16p but I just cannot understand how all this fighting and wrestling and punching in the nose and bashing the head to the sidewalk (not to mention the neighbors hearing and screaming "STOP") took place in 30 seconds. Can someone please explain this to me? Either the phone records are wrong or the eyewitnesses are wrong.

I have a question for the attorneys or experts here. If it comes down to believing the eyewitnesses or the 911 calls if they conflict which will be admissible during the grand jury? They both can't be right.

ITA. I'm inclined to believe that the timestamps of the various devices are/were not synchronized.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[gxm]

:floorlaugh: Not a bit...just wondering if those who disagreed with him about TM being the one screaming were ready to accept that it was.

IMO, I think it is most likely they were both screaming.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Footwarrior]

The time of the gunshot as nearly as I can tell was at 7:16:41. If you listen to the 911 call with the screams, the gunshot is heard at the :41 mark. The call began at 7:16 pm.

Either way, she was on the phone to within seconds of the shot that killed him.

The only source we have for the call between TM and his girlfriend only reports calls to the minute. We don't know if T-Mobile rounds time stamps the nearest minute or if they simply drop the seconds. We also can't assume that the call lasted exactly 4 minutes. Does T-Mobile round up call times to the next minute?

I don't recall any of the 911 calls starting at exactly 7:16 pm. Even if the first call did, the struggle must have been going on for some time before the start of the call. It takes time for someone to realize there is a problem, decide to call 911, dial the phone and for the 911 operator to answer the call. I would be amazed if this took less than 15 seconds.

 

[tehcloser]

IMO, I think it is most likely they were both screaming.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

I think GZ might have been "yelling", but it was only TM who was "screaming".

 

[dsntslp]

Florida CCW Reciprocity Map

http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal/florida-ccw-state-laws.php

Interactive map, you can change to view your own state laws.

 

[csziggy]

It's also interesting that GZ's father claims GZ became suspicious when he saw TM cutting through the houses. The only place to do that prior to the clubhouse would be the area between the homes off of Oregon Avenue which is where TM would have been walking down the pavement to the gate. Did TM cut through the side yard in between the homes as a shortcut rather than walk all the way down to the gate. There is clearly an opening there from the street side so someone wanting to get home fast because of the rain might take that shortcut. There's no walled in area and it appears pretty open except from some arbors along the backyard areas. If GZ was on his way to the store from his house he would have seen TM entering onto the street from between the two buildings as GZ would be driving down that street. So from what GZ's father is saying it appears GZ saw TM before TM arrived at the clubhouse. jmo

That's what I think - TM is coming back from the store, cuts through to get off the main road and into the neighborhood - also on the neighborhood road more protected from the wind. GZ is leaving for Target (let's take that at face value), sees an unknown coming between the buildings.

Gz could have driven on by TM but stopped at the intersection in front of the clubhouse to keep an eye on him. That would give time for GZ to make his call to SPD, talk to them as TM walks up the street closer to GZ's car. Then TM ducks under the porch/awning of the clubhouse, puts up his hood, and gets spooked by this guy who had driven by him but who is not sitting there watching him. TM runs - across the open area until he gets to the turn between the rows of townhouses.

There is a full minute between when GZ says TM is coming towards him until he says TM runs. This scenario would make this timing fit.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[Emeralgem]

This cnn ink says it was "cold"....and now we hear on cnn it was "punks".....:floorlaugh:

When I think about it teh, in all reality I have come to believe they think we are idiots..JMHO

My question is.. HOW LONG HAS THIS BEEN GOIN ON?JMHO

 

[Footwarrior]

I'd like to know how far away this witness was to the altercation, what was the lighting? It was after 7pm, before the time change? So dusk at the least, dark at the most. Porch lights only light so far....how far away was this witness? What is his age? I don't know about others but I can't really tell darker colors in the dark. Darker grays, blacks, dark reds, dark blues...they are going to look like shades of dark colors to me.....

The shooting happened after civil twilight, so it would have been dark. The path behind the condos was illuminated by low lights in addition to whatever porch lights were on at the time. But you are correct, it's not easy to see colors in low light situations.

 

[Peliman]

Plus a tourist is at a disadvantage coming into Florida because you wouldn't have a license to carry a gun in that state. Are licenses to carry a concealed weapon restructed to the state you live in only? jmo

Depends where the concealed permit and type permit plus reciprocity states, depending on the state of issue. Here's a website explaining reciprocity from the state of Fla.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/040512-Trayvon-Martin-case-debunking-the-myths

However, A lot of rumors swirling around the case come with some absurd moments, some mistakes from network news anchors and celebrities and even some flat out lies.

 

[Elley Mae]

Depends where the concealed permit and type permit plus reciprocity states, depending on the state of issue. Here's a website explaining reciprocity from the state of Fla.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

You do not have to be a florida resident to get a ccw permit from florida

o/t I am living between 2 states in the one state I arrived tueday afternoon at the foodlion and a man in the parking lot was walking to his vehicle wearing a revolver. I never felt safer.

 

[dsntslp]

The general public assumes that eyewitness accounts are accurate unless the person is lying. Science tells us that even people who are being truthful often give wildly inaccurate descriptions of events. We construct our memories of events from what we saw, what we presume happened and what we learn later about the event. We often don't even notice things that don't fit what we expect. For an example of how easy a witness can miss what is really going on, see the classic Invisible Gorilla Experiment.

"It isn't so astonishing, the number of things that I can remember, as the number of things I can remember that aren't so." - Mark Twain

That is really neat!
Going up on the FB page!
TY TY

 

[frenchvixen]

Everybody was quick to accept his opinion on Zimmernmna being disqualified as the screamer. So are we having trouble accepting his opinion on the slur word?

I don't have any problems accepting the facts. That's all the public wants. If it was TM screaming on 911 then we should all accept it. It GZ did not utter the C--N word (which I don't believe he did) then we should accept it also. What I cannot stand is for people to see the truth in front of them and to still debate that it is not correct b/c it does not fit their agenda.

 

[csziggy]

If he got off the phone with gf @ 7:16p how can he be dead at 7:17p? Is the timeline correct? I believe the 911 recording have the gunshots going off at 7:17p.(I read this somewhere else so I don't know how factual that is).

CNN posted transcripts of all the 911 calls (not GZ's non-911 call, but that transcript had been posted before): http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot

The call (Call 3 on the Sanford web site, the second call on the CNN transcript) that has the screaming and the shot is listed as beginning at 7:16. The gunshot is at 44 seconds into that recording according to the measurements I made with my audio software. The screaming is going on from the moment the call connects until the shot then ends instantly.

The police officers logs show that they arrived at 7:17. GZ was already standing, TM on the ground facedown with his hands under his body. The officers attempted CPR but never got a response and the EMTs (whose arrival time we don't have) declared TM dead at 7:30.

According to this timeline, 44 seconds after Trayvon's girlfriend's call was disconnected, Trayvon was dead.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I looked up information about the gun Zimmerman carried, a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm semi-automatic pistoll It has a five-pound trigger pull and an automatic hammer block safety. IOW, as I understand it, the only way to disengage the safety is to shoot the gun.

<snipped respectfully>

Your correct. It's a double action only gun. It has no manual safety. It has a long heavy trigger pull on each shot. The automatic hammer block safety prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

http://keltecweapons.com/our-guns/