17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[Inabsentia]

Hold onnnnnnnnnnnnn.
If we are going to believe this expert on "punks" are we also gonna believe him on this:

While Zimmerman's lawyers may welcome Owen's analysis of their client's 911 call, they disagree with his conclusions about what is heard on another 911 recording.


Owen and another audio expert, Ed Primeau, analyzed the recording for the Sentinel using different techniques, and they said they don't believe it is Zimmerman who is heard yelling in the background of one 911 call.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

I have to admit that I played that tape about a hundred times, and I struggled to decide if that word was punks or the other. Eventually I woke up my poor dh and made him listen. I am almost entirely deaf in my left ear, and he is a musician with excellent hearing. He was sure it was the other word. Then, when I heard the enhanced version from cnn or msnbc I heard the c word much more clearly. I am perfectly willing to believe that a professional with access to superior technology could determine that the slur was, in fact, punks. I would love to hear the adjusted recording, though.

As for Zimmerman's guilt, my views have not changed, I believe that he is guilty of manslaughter because he made a series of negligent decisions that directly led to Trayvon Martin's death. I think his story is untrue and his self-defense claims are fraudulent. These beliefs do not hinge on his muttered slur being racial in nature, just in it's having been a slur,(among other disturbing things about the case) which it was, and the second in the conversation at that. Moo

 

[csziggy]

Plus a tourist is at a disadvantage coming into Florida because you wouldn't have a license to carry a gun in that state. Are licenses to carry a concealed weapon restructed to the state you live in only? jmo

I think some states have reciprocal arrangements and I've heard the NRA wants to make that universal - that if you have a permit in one state, you will be able to CC everywhere in the US.

As long as all the states share their criminal records to screen CC permit applicants, that might be acceptable.

I just don't understand being so paranoid to feel the need to carry a gun everywhere.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[Gin]

I think some states have reciprocal arrangements and I've heard the NRA wants to make that universal - that if you have a permit in one state, you will be able to CC everywhere in the US.

As long as all the states share their criminal records to screen CC permit applicants, that might be acceptable.

I just don't understand being so paranoid to feel the need to carry a gun everywhere.

IMO, JMO, etc.

BBM, IMO, I don't either. And had GZ left his 9mm at home before he decided to do a little armed patrolling, Trayvon would still be alive.

 

[csziggy]

I agree with your post csziggy; however, I still maintain that his intentions were nothing less than premeditated when he made the decision to step out of his vehicle with his loaded weapon on his person despite being told by 911 not to pursue. Premeditation can be formed literally in 1 second. While I wish he could be charged with first degree murder, I seriously doubt that will happen but personally I'd like to see him sitting behind bars for the rest of his natural life or even subjected to the death penalty for what he has done to Trayvon and his family. He took the laws into his hands and Trayvon paid the ultimate price.


~jmo~

Even if GZ had no intent when he got out of his vehicle that 40+ seconds of pleading wailing cries shows premeditation. During that 40 or more seconds, GZ had every chance to choose between shooting and not shooting TM. He shot a teen who was begging for his life.

Up until that point, I am willing to give GZ the benefit of doubt. His intent was not clear and his exact actions unknown from the end of his call to SPD three minutes before the shot. But for that last forty seconds while TM was screaming for help, GZ was deciding whether or not to commit murder.

For both TM and GZ that forty seconds must have seemed like a lifetime - for TM it was.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[tehcloser]

You know it's funny/odd .... I came into this case late. I had seen blips on the news and just ignored it. The blips that I did see pointed to GZ being innocent so I thought he was. THEN...I started reading. And the more I read the madder I became. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can think this is acceptable. This is a crime board for peter, paul and mary's sake! We know a thing or two about how a normal investigation shoud go. SPD should be ashamed.....(I have a feeling they are gonna be wishing ashamed was all they were). Trayvon did not deserve this, no one does. It has to be stopped.

 

[Steft50]

The general public assumes that eyewitness accounts are accurate unless the person is lying. Science tells us that even people who are being truthful often give wildly inaccurate descriptions of events. We construct our memories of events from what we saw, what we presume happened and what we learn later about the event. We often don't even notice things that don't fit what we expect. For an example of how easy a witness can miss what is really going on, see the classic Invisible Gorilla Experiment.

"It isn't so astonishing, the number of things that I can remember, as the number of things I can remember that aren't so." - Mark Twain

This is why I asked about the lighting and distances this witness (or witnesses) were seeing what they saw. I'm sorry, if I saw two people fighting on the ground, in the semi dark, in the rain, thru a window, I wouldn't be able to tell you which one was wearing what color

I've seen experiments done with eye witnesses and how inacurate they are. A group of people are all witness to a fabricated crime and told not to discuss anything they see with one another. When everyones statements were taken shortly after were so diverse and from not only one another but from what was actually said, done and worn that no ones statement would have been helpful.

 

[frenchvixen]

I believe they were by Crump. He had that big ol newser and even held the audio recorder up and played her voice. I think he showed the records to the press -- but didn't actually hand the records over. But it's well documented, many articles -- Crump saying they spoke on the phone all day and the last call was from 7:12 to 7:16.

If it wasn't for technology and the family putting pressure on the officials in Florida not only would this case be swept under the rug but GZ's account would have been the official version of the truth. Unbelievable. No amount of witness tampering or half truths (in the word of Cindy Anthony) can stop the truth from coming out. We are slowly putting together what happened the last minutes of TM's life and I'm happy to know that the authorities are doing the same thing also b/c the whole world is watching them.

 

[csziggy]

:floorlaugh: Not a bit...just wondering if those who disagreed with him about TM being the one screaming were ready to accept that it was.

I don't hear the "p" at the beginning or a "k" at the end but I don't have the enhanced version he's working with so I will not disagree with the experts.

JMO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

You know it's funny/odd .... I came into this case late. I had seen blips on the news and just ignored it. The blips that I did see pointed to GZ being innocent so I thought he was. THEN...I started reading. And the more I read the madder I became. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can think this is acceptable. This is a crime board for peter, paul and mary's sake! We know a thing or two about how a normal investigation shoud go. SPD should be ashamed.....(I have a feeling they are gonna be wishing ashamed was all they were). Trayvon did not deserve this, no one does. It has to be stopped.

Pretty much the same story here. First thing I heard in the case was Zimmerman's 911 call then I went to the police report. It all stunk to high heaven. all imo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

LOL LOL CNN just played that new enhanced tape on tv. I heard shikc dedeume.

 

[katydid23]

I don't have any problems accepting the facts. That's all the public wants. If it was TM screaming on 911 then we should all accept it. It GZ did not utter the C--N word (which I don't believe he did) then we should accept it also. What I cannot stand is for people to see the truth in front of them and to still debate that it is not correct b/c it does not fit their agenda.

We are in 100% agreement here. I have always said that he should have been arrested that very night for manslaughter, while the case was further investigated.

What bothers me is the people trying to make this out to be a case like Emmet Till--or to say he was 'hunted down like a rabid dog.' It is wrong for the activists to try and create a huge racial divide here, imo.

 

[raeann]

CNN just reporting that GZ lawyers are setting up a website: ZimmermanDefense.com supposedly that will have a pay pal for donations!!!! Oh.....and information that supports their side of the story!!

 

[mercuriod]

Huh?

Zimmerman told his lawyers that he said "These f---ing punks always get away," his lawyers told CNN on Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

Problem with that is if you listen to the 911 tapes what he says is "A$$holes always get away" it was very shortly later that he mumbles "f---ing c<modsnip>".

 

[csziggy]

I'd like to know how far away this witness was to the altercation, what was the lighting? It was after 7pm, before the time change? So dusk at the least, dark at the most. Porch lights only light so far....how far away was this witness? What is his age? I don't know about others but I can't really tell darker colors in the dark. Darker grays, blacks, dark reds, dark blues...they are going to look like shades of dark colors to me.....

There is roughly fifty feet between the townhouses, so about 25 feet from the back door of a townhouse to the sidewalk. From the few video clips I've seen of the scene from the night of the incident, it does not look as though any lights from the back of the townhouses lights up that sidewalk and each porch/patio has a fence that screens it from their neighbors.

The sun went down about 6:20 so by 7 it was fully dark plus it was cloudy and rainy. It would have been very dark. Unless the witnesses had good flashlights, they would not have been able to see much. Even my Maglites don't show much at that distance. When I want to see stuff in the dark here on the farm, I pull out my million candle power spot light, LOL!

Information from various sources so no links.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[chefmom]

I don't have any problems accepting the facts. That's all the public wants. If it was TM screaming on 911 then we should all accept it. It GZ did not utter the C--N word (which I don't believe he did) then we should accept it also. What I cannot stand is for people to see the truth in front of them and to still debate that it is not correct b/c it does not fit their agenda.

I believe you are correct, frenchvixen. If we are going to believe that the experts are correct when they say it is NOT GZ screaming, then we must also believe them when they say there was no racial slur. I listened earlier to the enhanced audio from CNN and it definately sounds like he could be saying "cold" instead of the slur. I do not know how these audio clean-ups work, but I am willing to accept it as "cold". Somewhere on here, I read that on another CNN clip they are saying it is "punks". I didn't hear that clip, but have trouble buying that since there is clearly a "kuh" sound at the start of the word. I feel better believing that he said it was "cold" instead of the other word. It takes some of the ugliness of the situation away and leaves us with a tragedy that didn't have to happen. jmo

 

[katydid23]

Even if GZ had no intent when he got out of his vehicle that 40+ seconds of pleading wailing cries shows premeditation. During that 40 or more seconds, GZ had every chance to choose between shooting and not shooting TM. He shot a teen who was begging for his life.

Up until that point, I am willing to give GZ the benefit of doubt. His intent was not clear and his exact actions unknown from the end of his call to SPD three minutes before the shot. But for that last forty seconds while TM was screaming for help, GZ was deciding whether or not to commit murder.

For both TM and GZ that forty seconds must have seemed like a lifetime - for TM it was.

IMO, JMO, etc.

But what if TM was wrestling with him for control of the gun during those 40 seconds. That is the only thing that makes sense to me for why he would have shot that poor kid.

 

[gxm]

I don't have any problems accepting the facts. That's all the public wants. If it was TM screaming on 911 then we should all accept it. It GZ did not utter the C--N word (which I don't believe he did) then we should accept it also. What I cannot stand is for people to see the truth in front of them and to still debate that it is not correct b/c it does not fit their agenda.

I agree with you except that I don't think they'll ever be able to "prove" who was screaming on the tape. IMO, every one was probably screaming (or yelling), perhaps even the witness who ran inside. IMO, all h*** was breaking loose and it was a short, ugly, and loud confrontation.

What I want to know, and I fear we'll never know, is what happened to put the gun in play. I agree that GZ should have never left his car, but I don't believe he left his car with the intention of shooting anyone. What in the world happened in those brief final moments that turned such everyday events (a teenager walking to the store, GZ keeping an eye on his neighborhood) into such a terrible tragedy.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[chefmom]

LOL LOL CNN just played that new enhanced tape on tv. I heard shikc dedeume.

Hahaha! By the time they are done, we will be hearing the theme song to "Happy Days"!

 

[Concerned Papa]

uvamerica posted a link yesterday that I didn't read until a little while ago about a letter that someone in the Zimmerman family allegedly sent to the sister of a black homeless man that was beaten a couplr of years ago by an SPD officer's son. I vaguely remember the situation from the news because, like Zimmerman, the officer's son wasn't arrested right away and there were protests out of the black community.

I'm almost shaking my head in amazement at this letter that was also copied to the NAACP in Sanford by whoever wrote it:

"Do you know the individual that stepped up when no one else in the black community would? Do you know who waited for the church-goers to get out of church so that he could hand them fliers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? That person was George Zimmerman."

The letter goes on to say: "You know as well as I do that there are many NAACP followers that recognize George from the Ware case....you need to call off the dogs. Period. Publicly and swiftly."

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/letter-allegedly-written-gunman-george-zimmermans-/nMKFD/

Excuse Me?

Can they possibly think that GZ taking the life of Trayvon can be excused or forgotten about even IF it's true about George grandstanding at a church and handing out a few flyers? Then to close the letter with telling an outraged group of people what they NEED to do? If George Zimmerman had been telling the truth this ticking time bomb could have been diffused long ago in a very simple straight forward fashion.

My Letter To George:

If Trayvon Martin really broke your nose, don't just sing it, BRING IT! Show the world a doctor's report from that night or the next day with x rays proving it!

If a skinny 17 year old kid really whipped your azz and beat your head on a sidewalk, don't depend on grainy videos that have been "enhanced". Show us some documented 8x10 glossys showing the massive trama your brother said almost had you in diapers!

Instead of sending your dad to an interview in silhoutte to tell the world your cockamamie storyline, hook him, your brother, and YOURSELF up to a private polygraph and give us something to show that your bs MIGHT be true!

My last bit of advice to you would be, whatever you do, stop sending those half baked "friends" of your's to the media with your bs. They're hurting you almost as bad as you've done to yourself.

It's gone so far now, I don't know if it'll do you a damn bit of good to try anything now or not, because you'll NEVER be forgiven for killing that boy.

There was a time, however, you might could've gotten a running start out of town.

 

[mercuriod]

Everybody was quick to accept his opinion on Zimmernmna being disqualified as the screamer. So are we having trouble accepting his opinion on the slur word?

Problem is 2 different CCN reports are quoting hims as saying it was 2 different words, (links are in previous posts by other posters). In one CNN says that Owen says the word is "cold", in the 2nd report CNN says that Owen says the word is "punk" soooooooo......which is it? And with 2 conflicting reports coming for the SAME network news station why should we believe anything being reported on CNN? jmo, imo and all that jazz