UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[kes1972]

Agree with you. Just ridiculous after nearly 40 years.

Interestingly this article from the Mirror on 4/2 has RL saying something I have never heard him say before (see below) which is interesting .

Makes you wonder if the family are starting to question things..

'Suffolk Strangler should tell the truth about Suzy Lamplugh disappearance'

From the Mirror article above

Suzy's brother, Richard Lamplugh, 65, said: "I don't know who killed Suzy. As far as I'm concerned, it does look like everything points to John Cannan and that's what the police have said.

"But are we just trying to fit everything up so Cannan meets the case? I don't know. It wouldn't hurt to question Wright or to investigate him. But would he remember what he did with the body after such a long time? It's very strange that he worked with Suzy on the QE2."


The Met Police said in a statement when approached by The Mirror about Suzy’s case: “The Metropolitan Police Service’s investigation into the disappearance and murder of Suzy Lamplugh is ongoing, and detectives remain committed to securing justice for her family.

He would remember what he did with the body as he ran a couple of pubs in south london (plumstead) which always mase me lean towards sw as the infamous mr kipper

 

[Konstantin]

The Met Police said in a statement when approached by The Mirror about Suzy’s case: “The Metropolitan Police Service’s investigation into the disappearance and murder of Suzy Lamplugh is ongoing, and detectives remain committed to securing justice for her family.

If they are so sure Cannan did it and he's dead, how is the investigation ongoing? They can't prosecute him?

 

[kes1972]

The Met Police said in a statement when approached by The Mirror about Suzy’s case: “The Metropolitan Police Service’s investigation into the disappearance and murder of Suzy Lamplugh is ongoing, and detectives remain committed to securing justice for her family.

If they are so sure Cannan did it and he's dead, how is the investigation ongoing? They can't prosecute him?

Steve wright is very much alive

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

The Met Police said in a statement when approached by The Mirror about Suzy’s case: “The Metropolitan Police Service’s investigation into the disappearance and murder of Suzy Lamplugh is ongoing, and detectives remain committed to securing justice for her family.

If they are so sure Cannan did it and he's dead, how is the investigation ongoing? They can't prosecute him?

Quite - I think privately there might have been some division & DL a huge driver in her lifetime.

There are some aspects of this case that trouble them still & they can’t square re: JC IMO.

 

[rvlvr]

I think ‘retrofitting’ is a very good term for trying to make the case against Cannan but worse than that, what are the fundamentals of the case that they’re trying to fit this stuff to? The crime itself, the crime scene(s), the when and the how and the where? It’s infuriating police are never pressed on this. They almost discuss the case like none of it matters! ‘Mr Kipper’ may have rung up Sturgis on the Monday or possibly popped in on the Saturday, maybe he’d stalked her, maybe she wasn’t targeted at all, maybe they’d had some prior engagement, even a relationship, maybe she was using the viewing as cover to meet him, maybe for business, maybe for pleasure? Without a working theory it’s difficult to apply any of the circumstantial evidence in a way that makes sense (and that doesn’t then work against other theories).

I think WL is correct when he says they don’t want to discuss this stuff now because it would become obvious they missed opportunities and didn’t pursue certain leads back in the ‘80s. Some pertaining to Cannan, others not.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think ‘retrofitting’ is a very good term for trying to make the case against Cannan but worse than that, what are the fundamentals of the case that they’re trying to fit this stuff to? The crime itself, the crime scene(s), the when and the how and the where? It’s infuriating police are never pressed on this. They almost discuss the case like none of it matters! ‘Mr Kipper’ may have rung up Sturgis on the Monday or possibly popped in on the Saturday, maybe he’d stalked her, maybe she wasn’t targeted at all, maybe they’d had some prior engagement, even a relationship, maybe she was using the viewing as cover to meet him, maybe for business, maybe for pleasure? Without a working theory it’s difficult to apply any of the circumstantial evidence in a way that makes sense (and that doesn’t then work against other theories).

I think WL is correct when he says they don’t want to discuss this stuff now because it would become obvious they missed opportunities and didn’t pursue certain leads back in the ‘80s. Some pertaining to Cannan, others not.

I think some slack could be cut re: 1986. 40 odd years ago things were different & the police were overstretched & under resourced.

 

[rvlvr]

I think some slack could be cut re: 1986. 40 odd years ago things were different & the police were overstretched & under resourced.

I agree. But their ridiculous press conference in which they essentially said ‘it was Cannan’ occurred more than 23 years ago. They’ve had ample time since to right wrongs, or to hold their hands up and admit they can’t stand up their case.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I agree. But their ridiculous press conference in which they essentially said ‘it was Cannan’ occurred more than 23 years ago. They’ve had ample time since to right wrongs, or to hold their hands up and admit they can’t stand up their case.

Agree but not all of the ‘Phoebus’ findings in public domain so we can’t be totally objective.
Would love to hear more from some on case who were initially sceptical & became totally convinced.

 

[tes1984]

I agree. But their ridiculous press conference in which they essentially said ‘it was Cannan’ occurred more than 23 years ago. They’ve had ample time since to right wrongs, or to hold their hands up and admit they can’t stand up their case.

I must admit, I've never seen a UK case declared unresolved with so little actual evidence.

Although, just because a case is declared unresolved, it doesn't mean it can't be re-opened further down the line.

 

[WestLondoner]

I think ‘retrofitting’ is a very good term for trying to make the case against Cannan but worse than that, what are the fundamentals of the case that they’re trying to fit this stuff to? The crime itself, the crime scene(s), the when and the how and the where? It’s infuriating police are never pressed on this.

This boils my p155 too. Every documentary made features plod talking heads who assert that Cannan dunnit. While abducting and murdering someone is the sort of thing he'd do, which we know because he did, they're never pressed to explain therefore what happened. How does this always-confident claim cohere with and explain the evidence, sightings, vehicle movements, probable events of the crime and crime scene details? What crime scenes do they think there were? I'm not sure they've ever identified one. Where's the proof JC and SJL had ever met and were in contact? Assuming they were, what happened? Let's allow she did take the keys to 37SR. Why then didn't they go inside? What's the story about that?

This stuff is literally never aired. They may have a hypothesis for what actually occurred, but the publicly-made case against amounts to "He's a wrong 'un" and "he may have been around".

It seems completely farcical to me, because if they had ever put JC in the dock on this, his defence counsel would surely have had the world's easiest job. To get a conviction you'd have to show beyond reasonable doubt this was Cannan. If they had failed to eliminate the boyfriend, the defence would go to town on that - it's always the boyfriend so why didn't you eliminate him? Likewise if they didn't demonstrably eliminate the PoW, the Disraeli road Cypriot builder, SW, TS/PSS etc then the defence can argue OK, why can't it have been any of those?

Presumably the CPS saw all that looming and decided they had better uses of their time.

 

[Klclevi]

@Klclevi get Prime Suspect CBD on Kindle & look at AR plus. Interested in your thoughts. There’s lots to support no contact with AR until a bit later & it’s well referenced/documented.

As an aside JC drove GP in a hire car. Pre buying the BMW he seemed to use a lot - even when he had the BMW too.

Hi Yes my apologies, I was thinking on that timeline after I posted that and thought bugger, thats not right KC.

I had in my mind he had contacted her from Horfield re his daughter and it must have started earlier but you are absolutely right.

I do have this book, admittedly I have not read it again for about a year now, so I will now get back into it - am reading AS again alongside DV atm.

Does this sound right - he first encounters AR around Feb 82? Pg56.

Apologies for that I feel like a right idiot. My head spins round and round on this case

 

[Konstantin]

Presumably the CPS saw all that looming and decided they had better uses of their time

Well, it's glaringly obvious that they didn't have a case. No body and the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence. Even if they could show that she'd met him before, which they can't, there's still no evidence he killed her.

And the "tunnel vision" defence is also there. Why are they pursuing Cannan to the exclusion of all others especially given the utter lack of any evidence?

 

[Klclevi]

I understand what is known as "Helens Law" in the UK where a conviction is obtained without the presence of a body. But how would this apply to Suzys case?

I can only assume without looking too much more into it that DNA was a presence in these cases , so ultimately led to the conviction?

 

[Klclevi]

Well, it's glaringly obvious that they didn't have a case. No body and the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence. Even if they could show that she'd met him before, which they can't, there's still no evidence he killed her.

And the "tunnel vision" defence is also there. Why are they pursuing Cannan to the exclusion of all others especially given the utter lack of any evidence?

Well, there is always the old brown paper envelope under the table isn't there. If there was corruption in the MET somehow to do with property deals and potentially a criminal underworld (ie money laundering) - not saying she was involved directly at all but maybe she cottoned on to it via this person buying the flat with her. Why would you buy a flat to use as a mailing address. That smacks of underworld activity .

No idea how they conduct these scams, but you hear about what goes on today - every day. People getting scammed left right and centre. The absence of technology in 86 ( you wrote letters, you phoned your mates up on the old rotary phone, you had to post documents - no docusign etc).

Its an idea worth researching I think.

 

[Klclevi]

The mailing address link points to someone probably outside the UK do you think?

 

[Konstantin]

What did she want to sell her flat for? She didn't like the area? Thought she could invest whatever profit she turned on it somewhere else?

It wasn't selling so the market either wasn't hot or she'd overpriced it.

How would she buy a house with someone else? Partly with cash from the flat sale assuming there was anything after mortgage and fees paid+ mortgage?

And more importantly why?

Was it something like, look I live abroad most of the year but I want a nice pied a terre in a nice part of London for the 2 weeks I'm here and a London address for my business deals. You'll live there mostly alone and can bring your posh boyfriend here. It'll make money so you'll profit. And you'll put up with me for a few days every year and forward my letters. Oh and maybe a friend might stay over from time to time. If it's criminal then a safe house for people staying in London to do business and fence items possibly.

I can see her going for that but if that was the deal it sure as heck wasn't 37 Shorrolds Road. It'd be a posh flat. In a discreet area.

But why kill her over it? And why would the buyer need her? Legitimacy. She had access to property as an estate agent. She'd be living there so it looks kosher to neighbours.

I can't see Cannan working that sort of scheme. Sorry, John. He was a loser low tier crook who robbed petrol stations.

 

[Rookie D]

The Scotsman newspaper from July 1992.

Mr Kipper?...

If it was, then it wasn't Cannan.

 

[Klclevi]

What did she want to sell her flat for? She didn't like the area? Thought she could invest whatever profit she turned on it somewhere else?

It wasn't selling so the market either wasn't hot or she'd overpriced it.

How would she buy a house with someone else? Partly with cash from the flat sale assuming there was anything after mortgage and fees paid+ mortgage?

And more importantly why?

Was it something like, look I live abroad most of the year but I want a nice pied a terre in a nice part of London for the 2 weeks I'm here and a London address for my business deals. You'll live there mostly alone and can bring your posh boyfriend here. It'll make money so you'll profit. And you'll put up with me for a few days every year and forward my letters. Oh and maybe a friend might stay over from time to time. If it's criminal then a safe house for people staying in London to do business and fence items possibly.

I can see her going for that but if that was the deal it sure as heck wasn't 37 Shorrolds Road. It'd be a posh flat. In a discreet area.

But why kill her over it? And why would the buyer need her? Legitimacy. She had access to property as an estate agent. She'd be living there so it looks kosher to neighbours.

I can't see Cannan working that sort of scheme. Sorry, John. He was a loser low tier crook who robbed petrol stations.

I agree

DL and PL sold the flat in Nov 86 to a couple she had previously been negotiating with. After the seven years was up her estate had Net $47000 pounds that was distributed to her 3 siblings.

( Evening Standard 3.2.94) pg 88 re will

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

What did she want to sell her flat for? She didn't like the area? Thought she could invest whatever profit she turned on it somewhere else?

It wasn't selling so the market either wasn't hot or she'd overpriced it.

How would she buy a house with someone else? Partly with cash from the flat sale assuming there was anything after mortgage and fees paid+ mortgage?

And more importantly why?

Was it something like, look I live abroad most of the year but I want a nice pied a terre in a nice part of London for the 2 weeks I'm here and a London address for my business deals. You'll live there mostly alone and can bring your posh boyfriend here. It'll make money so you'll profit. And you'll put up with me for a few days every year and forward my letters. Oh and maybe a friend might stay over from time to time. If it's criminal then a safe house for people staying in London to do business and fence items possibly.

I can see her going for that but if that was the deal it sure as heck wasn't 37 Shorrolds Road. It'd be a posh flat. In a discreet area.

But why kill her over it? And why would the buyer need her? Legitimacy. She had access to property as an estate agent. She'd be living there so it looks kosher to neighbours.

I can't see Cannan working that sort of scheme. Sorry, John. He was a loser low tier crook who robbed petrol stations.

On JC he was looking into running a management consultancy with AR & looking at possible offices in nice parts of Bristol. I agree it sounds absurd but he had form for ‘schemes’ too. It seems women trusted him, at least initially.

It’s interesting he was apparently trying to buy with ‘uptown’ ‘Su Su’ who wasn’t SL but lived near Peabody Estate. So there’s some evidence he was looking to buy in approximate area..

SL was in a great hurry to sell her flat and was very ambitious to go up in the world socially & professionally. She wanted to buy a property she couldn’t really afford on the evidence we do have. I think she assumed that some others were doing rather better than they were. Her mother, according to AS, had told her dyslexia meant you had to ‘be’ somebody & it was the 80s. She was doing very well & only 25.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I agree .

DL and PL sold the flat in Nov 86 to a couple she had previously been negotiating with. After the seven years was up her estate had Net $47000 pounds that was distributed to her 3 siblings.

( Evening Standard 3.2.94) pg 88 re will

Thanks, yes. I found a article that adds DL was thrilled it had finally sold as SL had been so set on it.