17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[vlpate]

<respectfully snipped>

No, it makes no sense that TM was screaming like that if he had jumped GZ and was beating him up. But then none of that happened; it is just GZ's attempt to justify homicide.

IMO, TM was screaming because he was either wrestling for control of the gun or trying to keep GZ from pulling the gun from the holster. That explains the terrified and basically incoherent nature of the screaming.

BEM: I would agree this makes sense - then we have the eyewitness who says GZ was yelling help. Maybe they were both yelling for help? There was a lot off yelling in the background of the 911 tape - sounded almost like two people yelling. The final "help" could well have been Trayvon's when he <modsnip>.

 

[LambChop]

The girlfriend was abreast of the timing of this 911 call prior to releasing her statement to the PRESS - her version of the phone call. The 911 calls were released on March 16, her story was aired on ABC as an exclusive on March 20.

If you have your ear buds on and your phone in your pocket, which is where, IIRC, Trayvon's phone was found, and the ear buds come out, the phone does not disconnect -there's now way. The mic to the head phone is on the cord, it's either hanging now and she's hearing the immediate and loud altercation, or the buds have been yanked from the phone - at which point I might believe she stopped hearing them, but if someone can hear the screams from inside their home, and we can hear the screams on the call they make to 911, she can hear on the phone in his pocket. I think that's why she was so traumatized she went into the hospital. She was at his funeral - she saw the family suffering, why not come forward then?

Something, IMO, stinks to high heaven about the g/f's call. The only purpose I see it serving is to make it sound like Trayvon was scared and running for his life from this strange man. What IF, what Trayvon was really saying, being a kid wanting to impress his g/f, "I'm going to pop this guy". That would have sounded so much more brave than acting like a scared kid. He thinks it's just going to be a matter of acting tough, showing off....didn't factor in a gun. JMO

Was there something released about the phone being in TM's pocket? It could have just as well been in his hand. jmo

 

[vlpate]

I have seen one but I do not think we are suppose to post it. I know the exact address was removed and really not fair to post it. I don't think it is fair to his family. But as you are looking at the map, GZ's condo is down on the lower portion on the left hand side of Retreat View Circle he would probably drive up Retreat View Circle to go out the front gate. The cut through is up in the northern left hand corner coming off of Oregon. If you google it and bring the street camera down you can see the cut through between the homes. Main gate is off of Oregon. jmo

Thanks - you are right, of course. I'll see if I can do google maps without crashing my computer

 

[LambChop]

If I had taken the poll I would say I am white, and GZ is guilty.

Me, too, but I would add manslaughter. jmo

 

[Nova]

That's not what I was referring to.

Sorry. It seemed to be because of where your post landed.

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, really. How could he possibly know or think he was those things, unless he was profiling him?

Well, that is true. Even considering he was just a kid, GZ had already decided he was up to no good with no proof whatsoever. Why would GZ think TM was a burglar when he was walking? How can you burglarize a home when you have nothing to cart it away with? jmo

 

[ynotdivein]

Evening bump of the opening thread:

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Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.

I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:

At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.

Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information

Hope that helps clear this up.

Please bump as needed.

Just a reminder:

WS does not permit links that request or suggest sending donations without the clear permission of the owners . This is to protect our members and for no other reason.
__________________

 

[Velouria]

I agree, I kept reading the letter over and over because I could not believe what I was reading.
One thing I didn't copy was the underlining of the words "black community" in the 2nd paragraph of my post (I couldn't figure out how to do it):blushing:
If the family thinks this letter will help their cause they are sadly mistaken. :moo:

JMO, but my guess is that this letter is the work of big brother Robert.

 

[Nova]

BEM: I would agree this makes sense - then we have the eyewitness who says GZ was yelling help. Maybe they were both yelling for help? There was a lot off yelling in the background of the 911 tape - sounded almost like two people yelling. The final "help" could well have been Trayvon's when he realized he's lost control of the gun.

I don't believe two recognized experts who analyzed the tape were unable to tell the difference between one person yelling and two people yelling simultaneously.

I also doubt "John" (the eyewitness) could tell in the dark who was doing the yelling. I think he just assumed it was the man he believed to be on the bottom of the fight, as most of us would do. But whether he was even right as to who was on the bottom is questionable. (Not because I think he is lying, but because he is human.)

 

[Footwarrior]

I don't understand. GZ told the dispatcher TM was running "toward" the back gate, not toward him. His father's girlfriend's place was near the back gate. They started out by the club house.

You've lost me.

Take a look at a map of the complex. GZ's truck is stopped on Twin Trees. TM walks past the truck, then breaks into a run and takes the walkway that continues straight where Twin Trees turns south. GZ gets out of his truck and starts running, but not directly after TM. GZ takes another route, perhaps south on Twin Trees and between the buildings. GZ is now between TM and home.

 

[HiHater]

IMO, without the racial slur it will be very hard to prosecute as a hate crime. GZ doesn't even identify TM as black until asked and even then he has to wait for TM to turn around before he can decisively say he's black. The call to LE was initiated before GZ could even confirm TM's race. As for Taaffe, he is entitled to his opinion but why anyone is listening to it is beyond me.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

This was GZ's 46th call to law enforcement, he knew very well they would ask the race of the person he was calling about. He had never volunteered that information before, but IMO it doesn't change the fact that he was NEVER calling about a suspicious white person or a suspicious Hispanic person. Always a young, black male.

He also was not unaware of Trayvon's race. When asked he said "he looks black." I've said before, if you don't know the race of a person, why would that person just "look black"? If you don't know, you don't know.

JMO

 

[vlpate]

Was there something released about the phone being in TM's pocket? It could have just as well been in his hand. jmo

I'm going by what's been said by Crump - A cell phone phone call from slain black teenager Trayvon Martin to ... The phone was in his pocket and the earphone in his ear, Crump said.. I don't know why he would be carrying his cell in his hand since that would defeat the purpose of using ear buds.

Frankly, I don't know how the girlfriend knew he was using ear buds unless he told her or she found out from Tracy Martin via LE. Maybe it was just his habit to wear them.

 

[LambChop]

Just a note:
From the street number he gave in the call to SPD, GZ lives at nearly the opposite corner of the development from where the death occured. From the Seminole County Property Appraiser web site, FT lives near the corner where Trayvon may have cut through. Both live on the western side of Retreat View Circle, just at opposite ends.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Really. I did not realize that.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Well, that is true. Even considering he was just a kid, GZ had already decided he was up to no good with no proof whatsoever. Why would GZ think TM was a burglar when he was walking? How can you burglarize a home when you have nothing to cart it away with? jmo

He could have had a bag in his pocket.

 

[LambChop]

I'm going by what's been said by Crump - A cell phone phone call from slain black teenager Trayvon Martin to ... The phone was in his pocket and the earphone in his ear, Crump said.. I don't know why he would be carrying his cell in his hand since that would defeat the purpose of using ear buds.

Frankly, I don't know how the girlfriend knew he was using ear buds unless he told her or she found out from Tracy Martin via LE. Maybe it was just his habit to wear them.

He would have to have his phone in his hand, how would she hear him unless he had and earpiece with a mic and they are described as earbuds????

 

[Adrienne37]

He could have had a bag in his pocket.

Well, I wonder if Zimmerman found that bag in his pocket upon his frisking of Trayvon's dead and lifeless body?



~jmo~

 

[LambChop]

He could have had a bag in his pocket.

Kind of hard to run with laptop computers and other electronics even in a bag. jmo

 

[Horace Finklestein]

This was GZ's 46th call to law enforcement, he knew very well they would ask the race of the person he was calling about. He had never volunteered that information before, but IMO it doesn't change the fact that he was NEVER calling about a suspicious white person or a suspicious Hispanic person. Always a young, black male.

He also was not unaware of Trayvon's race. When asked he said "he looks black." I've said before, if you don't know the race of a person, why would that person just "look black"? If you don't know, you don't know.

JMO

They asked about race. He answered them.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Kind of hard to run with laptop computers and other electronics even in a bag. jmo

Not with jewelry though imo.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Given the very tight timeline we've been dealing with...match it against what GZ's father says transpired in that short time:

ZIMMERMAN: Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of townhomes. It's my understanding that Trayvon went between the two rows of townhomes, and George was walking down the main sidewalk to see if he could see where Trayvon was going.

He continued walking down that sidewalk to the next street. He wanted an address. All he could see was the back of the townhomes and he could not see an address. So he asked the dispatcher to have the responding unit call him, and he could tell him the address. So he walked down to the end of the street -- I'm sorry, to the end of the sidewalk to the next street to get an address. He did not know at that time where Trayvon Martin had gone. As he was walking back to his vehicle, there was a sidewalk that goes to his left and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet. He asked my son if he had a problem, and George said, no, I don't have a problem. Trayvon said, well, you do now. He punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the sidewalk, and got on him and started beating him.

ZIMMERMAN: When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was. So he continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address. He got an address. He was walking back to his vehicle. Trayvon came from his left side, asked him did he have a problem. George said no. At that point Trayvon said well you do now. He punched him in the nose, knocked him to the concrete, and started beating him. George was there yelling for help for at least 40 seconds. It's clearly him on the tape. There's absolutely no doubt about who it is. A neighbor came, saw what was happening. Saw George being beaten. Heard George yelling for help and the neighbors said he was calling 911. That's what he went inside and did.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=2#ixzz1rC33ItCH

I thought I had seen some tall tales in this case but this one may be the best one yet.

"Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of townhomes. It's my understanding that Trayvon went between the two rows of townhomes," (In white on the map below)

"When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was. So he continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address. He got an address." (In red on the map below)

"As he was walking back to his vehicle, there was a sidewalk that goes to his left and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet." (In yellow on the map below)

Wellll, where to begin with this little gem....For starters, TM started running according to George in the 911 call at [2:07]

George can be heard immediately exiting his vehicle and begin following. It's probably a bit petty to point out, but wonder why George didn't get an address off the unit directly in front of him when he first stepped off the street and onto the sidewalk?

Remember what Richard said in his now famous silhouette interview?

Police told George Zimmerman not to follow Martin, and asked him where he was. However, because he was behind the town homes he could not see the nearest address.

This is why, Robert Zimmerman claims, his son decided to keep following Martin, so he could obtain an address to give to police.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/2...at-his-son-threatened-his-life/#ixzz1rCltcCJl

Now with this newest version, instead of following TM, Richard places George on an intersecting sidewalk to the one TM ran down BECAUSE his son was dutifully attempting to obtain the address that the police dispatcher had asked him for.

Anyway...

Remember the time/distance calculations I did a few days ago? I won't go into the entire deal again, but trust me at average walking speeds an adult male covers 4.4 feet per second. The red line in the map above is 217 feet in length and would have required 49 seconds to walk. The yellow line back to the point Richard is claiming TM jumped George is only 96 feet in length and would only require 22 seconds to walk. That's a total of 1:11.

Remember, according to the 911 call he very obviously started this walk at 2:07. Add the time of the walk to his beginning time and we have George back to the intersection of the sidewalks at [3:11], address in hand, right?

Well Richard, we've got a couple of problems with this.

(1) The 911 dispatcher didn't even ask for the address until [3:21] into the call!

911 dispatcher:

Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:

Um, I don&#8217;t know. It&#8217;s a cut-through so I don&#8217;t know the address. [3:25]

(2) GZ talked to the dispatcher until the call ended at [4:07]. How could he do that if he was jumped at [3:11]?

Richard seems determined to correct his earlier interview where he places George following TM down that sidewalk, behind the townhouses, heading towards the back entrance.

Wonder why?