17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[Isabelle]

Five or six more days and we should have something solid.

 

[highflyer]

Didn't Zimmerman, Sr. talk about the letter on Hannity's program last night? I can't understand why he would discuss it if it hadn't been sent by the family.

Myself, I have absolutely no doubt that it was the Zimmerman's.



~jmo~

Went searching and found the grand jury will likely be called next Tuesday and I was wrong, the letter was from the Zimmerman's.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57410188/martin-shooters-family-goes-on-the-offensive/

 

[mercuriod]

LOL, Slick fix on the pool light.

FWIW, the unit that Zimmerman lived in is individually owned. I scanned over all of the units ownership roster and there are 2 or 3 owned by Lennar Homes who was probably the original developer, IDK, but Zimmerman's is not one of those. They could be possibly subsidizing his rent out of the HOA dues, but that would be unusual at least for the community that I presently live in.

Been wondering something, it has been stated many times that GZ moved out of his rented place the very next day and went into hiding, is GZ still renting the townhouse? Did he leave all his stuff there or was he somehow able to pack up everything and move in less than a day?

 

[Adrienne37]

Thanks UVamerica and highflyer for posting those links. I thought I remembered reading that Zimmerman Sr. had discussed that letter last night on Hannity.




~jmo~

 

[LambChop]

HOA's work differently in this situation - it's complicated because they sold half and rented the rest.

I've hired courtesy officers for over 2 decades on tons of properties. They sign an ancillary lease addendum and a waiver that releases the property of liability should the guidelines not be followed. In lieu of free or reduced rent, they will walk the property "x" amount of hours in the interest of protecting the structures and amenities only - they are not there for the protection of residents, employees, contractors, or visitors to the property. Residents are told this as well, call 911 in an emergency.

They must be a police officer in most cases (liability). If they are not a police officer, in no way are they permitted to carry a weapon, period. Officers are told not to carry their weapon while walking the properties, but it's highly doubtful they leave their gun at home. I've never had an incident anything close to what happened in this case. Courtesy officers follow people who they deem suspicious all the time - usually without incident - they just want to see where someone is going and what they are up to, if it looks like a crime in progress, they call LE

In spite of the accusations of stalking and vigilantism - GZ was just following/watching - routine. Every day of the week there are courtesy officers in thousands of apartment communities following someone they don't recognize through a property to make sure they belong or they are not up to something. They don't ask for ID until they seem suspicious. I see the same thing here - he was just watching.

The problem here was the gun should have been left in the car and GZ should have stayed in his truck to wait for LE, especially after TM started running. At that point GZ had to know the situation could turn dangerous, he needed to wait.

One other thing - the 46 phone calls to LE, in most cases a courtesy officer for a community is a cop, and they just call their buddies to do a drive-by or they take care of it themselves. GZ is not an officer so he couldn't do anything more than call LE. ALL 46 times he did just that.

JMO

If such an agreement existed Mr. Z senior would have been talking about it, FT would have been talking about it. From what I understand the only security they have is the gate and the camera. Plus why would they need NWP if they were paying GZ to patrol. And doesn't the bank own GZ's house??? I don't think the bank would be reducing his rent just so he could patrol that has nothing to do with them. jmo

 

[suzihawk]

Interesting where FT lives compared to GZ. Do you suppose FT might have seen TM first and called GZ??? That would be on the phone records. Funny, too, how George's father talks about his son was on the phone with the sister right before he left to go to the store and how he always shops on Sunday. Not sure this is a Super-Target but regular Targets just have a few food items but not where you would want to shop for a weeks worth of food. jmo

Especially interesting how it wasn't enough to state George was going grocery shopping (that he ALWAYS shops on Sunday) but he needed to back it up by saying George texted his sister? to tell her he was going. A little overkill? (excuse the pun)

 

[mercuriod]

This was in reference to whether the word C***s was said... The enhanced sound track sounds as if Zimmerman was saying 'Cold'... It was very cool that evening and with the rain it made it feel even colder. You've got to remember that in Florida people start dressing as if they was on a polar expedition once the temps start dropping below 60 degrees...

BBM Really???? Hmm I live in Florida and I never dress as if I were on a polar expedition, why it even went down into the 40's last year and I didn't even wear gloves. 60 degress is not considered cold here, cool yes, but cold, get real. jmo, imo (and personal experience) and all that jazz

 

[Adrienne37]

Especially interesting how it wasn't enough to state George was going grocery shopping (that he ALWAYS shops on Sunday) but he needed to back it up by saying George texted his sister? to tell her he was going. A little overkill? (excuse the pun)

The emphasis that Zimmerman Sr. put on this little tidbit of information probably indicates that Zimmerman's text messages to his sister will be part of his defense. He didn't mention that for no apparent reason, IMO.



~jmo~

 

[HiHater]

Been wondering something, it has been stated many times that GZ moved out of his rented place the very next day and went into hiding, is GZ still renting the townhouse? Did he leave all his stuff there or was he somehow able to pack up everything and move in less than a day?

I don't know, but if he did move the next day, there went his claims of being almost critically injured. IMO

 

[HiHater]

BBM Really???? Hmm I live in Florida and I never dress as if I were on a polar expedition, why it even went down into the 40's last year and I didn't even wear gloves. 60 degress is not considered cold here, cool yes, but cold, get real. jmo, imo (and personal experience) and all that jazz

I live in TX, so a bit different climate---but 60 degrees and you will still see people with shorts and flip flops here. :twocents::moo:

 

[deelytful1]

BBM Really???? Hmm I live in Florida and I never dress as if I were on a polar expedition, why it even went down into the 40's last year and I didn't even wear gloves. 60 degress is not considered cold here, cool yes, but cold, get real. jmo, imo (and personal experience) and all that jazz

PLUS GZ was wearing a jacket! How cold could he have been???

 

[uvamerica]

Thanks UVamerica and highflyer for posting those links. I thought I remembered reading that Zimmerman Sr. had discussed that letter last night on Hannity.




~jmo~

Your Welcome ! :seeya:

 

[mercuriod]

was TM wailing for his life while held at gunpoint I think GZ's story implodes. IMO, that person wailing was not the assailant and was not engaged in any threat to GZ and there was plenty of time for GZ to DECIDE what to do, whether to shoot and kill him or de-escalate the encounter-for whatever reason he decided to shoot.

IMO, TM pissed GZ off. I think GZ grabbed TM, maybe by his arm to ensure he couldn't get away-I think TM may have flailed his other arm, maybe landed a punch...maybe, but not a very good one, just enough to REALLY tick GZ off and he then, if he hadn't already, pulled his gun and pointed it at TM from a very close position and let it sink in to TM that he was going to die and then he pulled the trigger. Or maybe the whole thing was done with the gun drawn and TM trying to get away while GZ hung onto him.

I don't think anyone of the witnesses can really accurately describe what happened-I think the best bet is forensics and the precise timeline that will be established. I just hope it's enough. The description of GZ after the shooting was not of an agitated and distraught individual who was engaged in a battle which makes sense in this context. There was no big fight. The more I think about it the more I feel it was like an execution with GZ feeling justified because TM was one of those a%$holes that had previously gotten away so he wasn't doing anything wrong in eliminating this threat. If GZ had ever just thought or considered that maybe TM was just a regular teenager nothing would have happened. But to GZ, TM was just a type, a prototype out of central casting running amok around his pristine kingdom and GZ was going to set things right this time.

WOW, that say so accurately what I think happened! :tyou:

 

[LambChop]

BBM Really???? Hmm I live in Florida and I never dress as if I were on a polar expedition, why it even went down into the 40's last year and I didn't even wear gloves. 60 degress is not considered cold here, cool yes, but cold, get real. jmo, imo (and personal experience) and all that jazz

Plus in the summer it's not uncommon in most homes to find the temps down in the 60's with the air on. jmo

 

[csziggy]

Didn't the dispatcher ask GZ if he was following TM? Dispatch didn't ask if he was on foot, did he?????? So maybe GZ was following him with the car and the reason he eventually got out of the car may be because he could not find TM and decided to track him where he lost him, then found him behind he buildings. jmo

On my timeline, right after GZ says, "These a$$holes they always get away." there is a sound which I am pretty sure are windshield wipers, but I don't think GZ got out at that point. There there is this sequence:

02:06:65 Sh** he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
02:09:47 (Car door alarm?)
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. (car door slam)
02:14:18
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…****ing (unintelligible)
02:22:36
19:11:59 subj now running towards back entrance of complex
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah (wind noises)
02:25:20
19:12:00 Trayvon receives call from girlfriend
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
Zimmerman: George…He ran. (wind noises continue)
02:38:14
(Wind noises stop some time in here)

The times in military (19:12:00) are from the dispatcher log in the initial police report. The times in minutes (02:25:20) are my audio program counter of the recording of GZ's call. Since I am not sure I have the times properly synced I have not converted the audio times to actual times. There is also the note of the time TM's gf call connected.

I think GZ got out of his vehicle while on the phone with SPD but that he did not follow very far before the dispatcher called him on it. During the rest of the call, I hear no noises that sound like car doors, wind or anything that would indicate that GZ got back out of the car.

He could have followed in the car either while still on the phone or after he got off the call. That could be why his attempts to give directions to the operator are so disoriented. He was fixated on TM, trying to spot him between the buildings, and not thinking about how to give good directions to a location where he no longer was and had no intention of being when LE arrived.

Or, he could have been getting his gun out of where ever he kept it in the vehicle and checking to make sure he had a bullet in the chamber and a full clip. That could have been the clicking noise I hear on the recording after the above sequence.

JMO, IMO, etc.

 

[mercuriod]

I live in TX, so a bit different climate---but 60 degrees and you will still see people with shorts and flip flops here. :twocents::moo:

Yep, I am in shorts an flip flops about 80% of the year (besides work time when I have to be in "professional" clothing, sandals are allowed but no flip flops, "dadgum" it):floorlaugh:

 

[Adrienne37]

This was in reference to whether the word C***s was said... The enhanced sound track sounds as if Zimmerman was saying 'Cold'... It was very cool that evening and with the rain it made it feel even colder. You've got to remember that in Florida people start dressing as if they was on a polar expedition once the temps start dropping below 60 degrees...

Really? I was born in Florida and have lived here my entire life and I can assure you that I have never once dressed as if I was on a polar expedition in the winter especially in temperatures around 60. Yea, I might wear a hoodie but I have never donned a snowsuit, hats, gloves, parkas, boots, googles, or anything else that might be required to go on a polar expedition.




~jmo~

 

[mercuriod]

Yep, I am in shorts an flip flops about 80% of the year (besides work time when I have to be in "professional" clothing, sandals are allowed but no flip flops, "dadgum" it):floorlaugh:

Going off this, LOL I even have many colored flip flops, gotta have the outfits color coordinated don't ya know!

 

[mercuriod]

Really? I was born in Florida and have lived here my entire life and I can assure you that I have never once dressed as if I was on a polar expedition in the winter especially in temperatures around 60. Yea, I might wear a hoodie but I have never donned a snowsuit, hats, gloves, parkas, boots, googles, or anything else that might be required to go on a polar expedition.




~jmo~

LOL, I know I read that and started :floorlaugh: boy someone has obviously never actually been to Florida!

 

[csziggy]

not because he was just thinking randomly about burglaries-it's important to know that was his thought sequence-burglaries wasn't the essential element or object of the call, the black kid was-What made him call the police? The black kid who, when he saw him, made him immediately conclude he was a burglar, of course and he was going to get him and not let him get away like the other a%$holes did.

Yes - remember GZ's good buddy, Frank Taaffe:

Also Tuesday, Taaffe told CNN that the neighborhood had experienced a spate of burglaries over 15 months, which he said were committed by black men. But Taaffe said Zimmerman was not a racist.

"Young black men were never the topic of discussion," he said. It was that neighborhood homes had been repeatedly burglarized, he said.

Police records didn't appear to support Taaffe's assertion, describing four incidents involving black men. Taaffe declined further comment to CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

BBM

I wonder if GZ thought the same way as his buddy?