17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

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  • #161
There is something or the Hornsby web site about this.
I have not read it recently.
But seems if your life is threatened even outside of your home
you can shoot and use this law.
Here is his site....
Not sure if it is no there now.
http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

I agree stand your ground states that. And in the scenario that I provided in my previous post, if I scared away the intruder and then followed them around the neighborhood, and they pulled a gun, I could shoot to defend myself. But it would be a self-defense issue for the courts to decide; it would not be a stand your ground issue. And even with my self-defense claim, I would no doubt have some legal liability in the matter once it became known that the immediate threat had left but I chose to pursue it.

Now, maybe GZ did feel he had to use force to protect himself once the fight started. I wasn't there so I have no way of knowing one way or the other. But even if this is so, it would be a self-defense issue that has nothing to do with stand your ground, IMO. And GZ would have some liability in that he was not in harm's way until he decided to put himself there. He wes told LE was on the way and he did not need to follow Trayvon; he followed him anway.

Trayvon may have been perceived as a threat by GZ. But he was not an immediate threat, as he was walking away from GZ. If Trayvon at some point became an immediate threat to GZ it was due to GZ putting himself in that position.

There are two possible defenses here, IMO: Self-defense and stand your ground. I do not feel that stand you ground applies. But that's my opinion based on what we know currently. My opinion may change later, or it may not.
 
  • #162
Wrt GZ's "eye roll" ( link ) I would venture to guess that it may have to do with the fact that he wears contacts. ( link )
Actually I do read some body language, not an expert, but pretty good at it.
this is what I see.
Early on he looked to the right - I imagine he looked up at a camera.
(in NY - I have seen cameras on both sides) Ithink that is what that was,
He does have a often blink. Is it a nervouse condition? it can be but it is not a rolling of the eyes.
 
  • #163
You call this justice :what: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what:
without knowing all the detail because we do not know all the details.
IMO if he did do any of what you said he should be in jail.
But again we still wait to have FACTS.
Unless you are psychic I do not think you know more then we ALL know.

Justice is that George Zimmerman has been arrested and charged for the unjustified death of Trayvon Martin and will have to stand in front of our court system to determine what, if any, punishment he gets.

None of us have the facts, but that doesn't stop those people who support GZ's side of the story from stating their opinions? This is a discussion forum and with every case, we discuss our opinions until we do get the facts. We are justified in our opinions. All of us.

MOO
 
  • #164
Wrt GZ's "eye roll" ( link ) I would venture to guess that it may have to do with the fact that he wears contacts. ( link )

I think so, too. I did not see it as an eye roll. jmo
 
  • #165
  • #166
IIRC we have heard from those who signed Florida's stand your ground legislation, and they have claimed it does not apply in this case.

We have the law in my state and if someone broke into my home in the middle of the night I could legally shoot them to defend myself or my property. However, I could not scare the intruder away and then follow them down the street, around the corner, between buildings, etc., and then invoke stand your ground as a defense.

My state's stand your ground would allow me to protect myself and my property in the face of threat. It would not allow me to pursue the person once they left.

BBM
If the politicians had written the law differently, there would be no question about GZ's guilt. They should have made SYG only apply to ones home or business, not anyplace they have a right to be.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
 
  • #167
  • #168
This judge should recuse herself from this case. There are too many trust issues involved now.
 
  • #169
GREAT POST. :clap: :clap:

:( Sadly I believe that the cases that get attention are money machines.
I want to know why Al has not gone after the case you just mentioned?
I have not heard about it and it is wrong, that it is not getting more attention.
The only thing I am guessing is the country is racially heated right now,
and just maybe they are doing something without much Tabloid fodder.

But the vengeance and the hate is a very sad sign of the times.
You can hear it in the despicable music of these days.

He is there right now with his entourage and the cameras, AFAIK.

And interesting about that case. The white guy who was shooting random blacks. His father was allegedly killed by a black shooter WHO SUCCESSFULLY USED THE SYG LAW. So round and round we go.
 
  • #170
He is there right now with his entourage and the cameras, AFAIK.

And interesting about that case. The white guy who was shooting random blacks. His father was allegedly killed by a black shooter WHO SUCCESSFULLY USED THE SYG LAW. So round and round we go.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/murder_hate_crime_charges_filed_fiO3WLGCKXPhg9fPHxCoTJ

Oklahoma prosecutors on Friday filed murder and hate crime charges against two men arrested in connection with an Easter weekend shooting spree in Tulsa that left three African-Americans dead and two others wounded.

As it should be!
 
  • #171
This judge should recuse herself from this case. There are too many trust issues involved now.

I agree. And she is such a new judge. I would really like to see a very experienced judge take on this case. There is no room for missteps here.
 
  • #172
I agree. I think that is is a shame that someone died. I feel awful for the family for their loss, but at least let all the facts come out before the electric chair is plugged in.

There were people who said the same thing about casey anthony. They stated that those of us who felt she was guilty were on a witch hunt, not open-minded, wanted her executed without trial, were a lynch mob, were jumping the gun by not waiting for facts to come out at trial, not giving casey the benefit of the doubt, etc.

IMO, those who felt that what we knew prior to the arrest indicated casey was guilty of some form of murder, were basing that belief on logic. I feel the same use of logic applies here.

I don't like to toot my own horn but, I excel at logic. It's one thing I'm very, very good at. And logic - not emotion, hysteria, a mob attitude, preconceived notions regarding race or ethnicity, etc. - tells me Zimmerman stalked and hunted that kid down, was the aggressor and unjustly shot him.

Hey, I'm used to analyzing a set of facts dispassionately and trying to see both sides to an argument. It's what I do for a living. I've done that here.

But, I'll wait for more "facts" just like I did in casey anthony's case. There is always more to know, more pieces to the puzzle.

I'm interested in why this case has become such a lightening rod for hate.

Just last week there were two men from Tulsa who went out at night, armed, with the intent of shooting Black people and they did - 5 of them - totally innocent people they had no beef with whatsoever.

Why are they being ignored, and George Zimmerman probably wouldn't survive outside of the jail right now?

I guess I didn't ever really understand the seething hate people have for CA either, how she's different from any other mom who kills their darling child and then lies about it.

It's baffling why the public becomes riveted on certain cases, with a blood lust for vengeance, and other cases are pretty much ignored that seem much worse to me.

I resent what appears to be the inference that those who want justice for Trayvon are fueled by "hate". Or maybe I don't. Maybe it's accurate. I hate injustice, so yeah, I guess I am fueled by hate.

The reason this case is getting so much attention, while the OK case is not, is really quite simple. There was a solid investigation, quick arrests and charges levied there. The whole reason this case is controversial, as many have repeated over and over again, is what was an apparent lack of justice.

It appeared to many/most that the initial investigation and the decision not to levy charges, was based on race, on racial profiling. Racial injustice, especially institutional racism, has a long history in our country and remains a major issue. It took the governor giving the case to a special prosecutor before the wheels began to roll at all. Huge difference between that and how the murders in OK were handled. The analogy would be logical if the folks in OK essentially ignored the murders there.

And why was casey anthony such a huge case when so many parents kill their kids? That's easy. It was bizarre, she is bizarre, her family and attorneys are bizarre, the facts were bizarre.

The intricate level of lying, the unusual behavior of the parents, the odd smirkiness and apathy of the mother, the fact that all of this happened to a seemingly much loved middle class kid in the suburbs and the circus atmosphere created by casey's attorneys really made that case something to watch. :twocents:
 
  • #173
None of those acts are unlawful, nor would they be considered legally provocative acts. According to the law, who the aggressor was is really irrelevant. It is what took place after physical contact. RH explains the law in detail and provides the Florida Statues.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

The fact that we will never know the full story of what happened after physical contact was first made... you have to put into consideration, state of mind as it goes to intent. George Zimmerman intentionally got out of his car with the sole purpose of following Trayvon with the frame of mind that these "a**holes always get away" and that Trayvon was a "f***ing punk." He admits that Trayvon was running away! He admits that he was following Trayvon. Any reasonable person would not only see him as the aggressor, but as the one, who most likely made physical contact first. There is no way a jury is going to believe that Trayvon, after running away from George, would jump George from behind. It's insulting.

MOO
 
  • #174
I agree stand your ground states that. And in the scenario that I provided in my previous post, if I scared away the intruder and then followed them around the neighborhood, and they pulled a gun, I could shoot to defend myself. But it would be a self-defense issue for the courts to decide; it would not be a stand your ground issue. And even with my self-defense claim, I would no doubt have some legal liability in the matter once it became known that the immediate threat had left but I chose to pursue it.

Now, maybe GZ did feel he had to use force to protect himself once the fight started. I wasn't there so I have no way of knowing one way or the other. But even if this is so, it would be a self-defense issue that has nothing to do with stand your ground, IMO. And GZ would have some liability in that he was not in harm's way until he decided to put himself there. He wes told LE was on the way and he did not need to follow Trayvon; he followed him anway.

Trayvon may have been perceived as a threat by GZ. But he was not an immediate threat, as he was walking away from GZ. If Trayvon at some point became an immediate threat to GZ it was due to GZ putting himself in that position.

There are two possible defenses here, IMO: Self-defense and stand your ground. I do not feel that stand you ground applies. But that's my opinion based on what we know currently. My opinion may change later, or it may not.

I love your posts krkrjx - I can see you are about justice no matter how the case goes. :)
You are one that I would have in my circle of friends. :blowkiss: What I do not like is any rush to judgment on any side.

I toatlly agree that George was overzelouse, and will do have to be accountable so may need to do some time.
I do not think George went looking for trouble at all. IMHO with 8 roberies and him being on the watch team he knew who the suspects were.
I have no idea how his legal team will handle it. I only know that law needs to be fixed.
 
  • #175
None of those acts are unlawful, nor would they be considered legally provocative acts. According to the law, who the aggressor was is really irrelevant. It is what took place after physical contact. RH explains the law in detail and provides the Florida Statues.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

In this case Zimmerman's actions as an aggressor are part of the charge against him. His thinking process is part of the charge against him. It all goes to the murder charge. Now the SA feels she has enough evidence to prove who touched who first or who was really in fear of their life.

Everything that took place before the contact is very important to the charge in this case.
 
  • #176
Apparently they spend all their money at Target.

LOL, I shop at Walmart so I must not be a criminal :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
 
  • #177
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bumping up for the link to the SOUND OFF...
 
  • #178
None of those acts are unlawful, nor would they be considered legally provocative acts. According to the law, who the aggressor was is really irrelevant. It is what took place after physical contact. RH explains the law in detail and provides the Florida Statues.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

Some legal experts are interpreting the law in the manner Hornsby states. Some are not. I have a feeling this law will be subject to judicial clarification at some point in the future, possibly via this case. If you are correct, then Zimmerman will likely walk.
 
  • #179
That would be fun!! :floorlaugh: GZ thought Trayvon was a scary looking person... put him in the same room with FCA for a few days and he'll be a changed man!
She's probably mad that he's stealing her thunder!
 
  • #180
bumping up for the link to the SOUND OFF...

Oops. In one of my last posts, I mentioned racial politics as a reason this case is getting so much attention. I thought it was okay because I was answering and not discussing whether there has been such injustice here. Maybe not! I will be careful and try to tread lightly. Apologies if I was out of line!
 
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