17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[songline]

I really don't think a 15-year-old girl not being able to get a hold of her 17-year-old boyfriend would classify as Trayvon "missing?" Not to the Miami Police Department anyways! They actually might even think the young girl was some crazed stalker coming all the way down to the PD to report that her boyfriend won't pick up the phone?

MOO

I would have never stoped till someone helped figure this out.
WASNT he taking her to the prom? That was her guy...
You dont do nothing? after a LASTcall like that :what:

 

[Yoda]

they're dealing with in terms of crime? And, what, they stop everything to deal with a 15 yr old who can't reach her boyfriend. Oh, and she isn't sure where he is or who he's staying with...I don't think they'd even be polite when they were showing her the door.

I can see this, but it made me sad. I know, that where I live, if my daughter called the police, an officer would come out to the house and try to get more information or help her try some alternatives to finding out if her BF was okay. I feel bad knowing that some people don't have the support from LE everywhere. (not because LE doesn't want to do the small things but because they have too much to do and not enough manpower.). Moo

 

[AngelWings444]

I'm reading something right now that says that the burden at trial is on the prosecution to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm trying to find the case law that's the basis of the discussion :::no life::: lol

SYG is different than self defense used at trial. The SYG is a hearing prior to a trial. After the ruling on the SYG hearing, each party can appeal for a long time, prior to it ever seeing the courtroom. Then, if SYG doesn't work, GZ can try to use self defense at trial.

 

[Boytwnmom]

to prove the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. During the case, the defense does not have to present any evidence at all if they feel the offense has not been proven but generally they do try to poke holes in the evidence the prosecution presents.

But an affirmative defense doesn't deal with the offense itself and it does require the defense to present evidence. It deals with an excuse for the offense but requires the defendant basically admit to the offense. Usually it's a preponderance or clear and convincing standard.

After the affirmative defense evidence then the prosecution will deal with why it doesn't apply.

The real important wrinkle in this case is the Immunity Hearing which I haven't read too much about but which is clearly only advantageous to the defense. They can get the whole case thrown out before it starts.

Just wanted to say thanks. The insanity comparison clarified it for me. I didn't understand before why it became GZ's responsibility to prove self defense.

 

[Karmady]

Just a minor point of interest. The Judge who is hearing the case is married to a lawyer in Nejame's firm...did we know that?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-04-13/trayvon-martin-judge-may-step-down-over-husband-s-boss

 

[Velouria]

Thank you :blushing:
I am holding my Ground: as you know I always do

I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. NO. I am not saying that Trayvon is innocent. No
I see a heavily tipped public opinion with many missing parts to a puzzle.
I do believe that because A- S------- and all the heavy’s came in it tipped the case to become a racial case.
The public opinion has been tainted by media and whatever else.
A middle ground may sway the scales of balance.
IMO it is a case of sloppy police work. EVEN if GZ claimed self defense it has to be thoroughly investigated and they
dropped the ball. While Trayvon’s parents deserve answers and I am glad a case is at hand.
I believe that Zimmerman was turned into a victim too. Is it aggravated assault, manslaughter possibly.
I am sure there are reasons she gave murder 2 and I can read into some of those. But will set it aside.
What I hope to see is that Zimmerman does get a fair trial. He will go to jail but not life. ONE IS living and I do not want
blood on my hands. One is sadly gone, and all we can give the dead is the TRUTH.
But the know it all KNOW with missing parts to a puzzle and is not fair for the public at large not to read another view.
JUSTICE IS IMPRTANT - VENGENCE IS AN ILLNESS.

BBM

Are we allowed to discuss that subject upstairs again?

Just a minor point of interest. The Judge who is hearing the case is married to a lawyer in Nejame's firm...did we know that?

Yes, she called a hearing today so that the lawyers could decide whether to file motions for recusal.

 

[AngelWings444]

I would have never stoped till someone helped figure this out.
WASNT he taking her to the prom? That was her guy...
You dont do nothing? after a LASTcall like that :what:

She DID do things, including call LE. Please don't make it sound like she heard someone get shot and sat at home doing nothing. She is a 15 year old little girl who just lost her boyfriend. From reports, she had to seek medical treatment from this situation. She is a victim, as well.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

When she went down to the Miami Police Department... what was she going to say? Sure she could have told them that she was talking to her boyfriend and someone was following him when his phone went dead and she tried to call back but he won't answer.

Does she know Trayvon's fathers name? Does she know Trayvon's soon-to-be step-mother's name? Does she know what apartment complex he is staying at? Does she even know the actual city he is in? What about Trayvon's mothers name? What is her phone number? Why haven't you contacted her? Does she know her son is missing?

Plus... it's not their juristiction. There is nothing that they could have done for her.

I'm not sure why your asking me all these questions. I was just curious why mercuriod feels that 17yr olds are "calloused" now a days compared to 17yr olds of the past.

 

[mercuriod]

I'm curious by what you mean by 17 year old teenagers are "calloused"? Do you mean less caring about other peoples well being? Have times really changed to the degree that a 17yr old girl would not be concerned about the welfare of a boyfriend? I hope not.

Maybe calloused is the wrong word, hardened, more worldly, exposed to so much more than 17 year olds were 30 to 40 years ago. She could have thought he was "dissing" her or that his father caught him on the phone with her and took the phone away.

 

[Karmady]

SYG is different than self defense used at trial. The SYG is a hearing prior to a trial. After the ruling on the SYG hearing, each party can appeal for a long time, prior to it ever seeing the courtroom. Then, if SYG doesn't work, GZ can try to use self defense at trial.

He can still use SYG at trial, too. And that's what I'm wondering. What the SYG burden is at trial.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I would have never stoped till someone helped figure this out.
WASNT he taking her to the prom? That was her guy...
You dont do nothing? after a LASTcall like that :what:

I don't know how things work in NY, but whatever it is they do up there, does not apply to down here because that is not the way it works?

I never knew he was taking her to Prom? Were tickets even on sale before he was killed?

 

[songline]

No they wouldn't she was not his legal guardian, she can not report him as a missing person. They would actually assume that she and her boyfriend got in an argument and he just wasn't answering her calls. Can you imagine the backlog if the police went to investigate every time a teenage girl complained that her boyfriend didn't answer her phone call? Lets use some common sense here.

BBM :floorlaugh:Yes I can imagine...
she had to know where he lives, I would go wherever, who ever I can reach out to.
.. I would not stop till I can find out - After a LAST call like the she describes.

But what if it was not exactly like that? Just a little different.
Then I can see how 3 weeks go by and she is just saying to herself
OH GOD he got grounded real bad.

 

[Adrienne37]

Just a minor point of interest. The Judge who is hearing the case is married to a lawyer in Nejame's firm...did we know that?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-04-13/trayvon-martin-judge-may-step-down-over-husband-s-boss

Yes, she called a status hearing earlier today to discuss the issue.



~jmo~

 

[Phoenixfla]

Thank you :blushing:
I am holding my Ground: as you know I always do

I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. NO. I am not saying that Trayvon is innocent. No
I see a heavily tipped public opinion with many missing parts to a puzzle.
I do believe that because Al Sharpton and all the heavy’s came in it tipped the case to become a racial case.
The public opinion has been tainted by media and whatever else.
A middle ground may sway the scales of balance.
IMO it is a case of sloppy police work. EVEN if GZ claimed self defense it has to be thoroughly investigated and they
dropped the ball. While Trayvon’s parents deserve answers and I am glad a case is at hand.
I believe that Zimmerman was turned into a victim too. Is it aggravated assault, manslaughter possibly.
I am sure there are reasons she gave murder 2 and I can read into some of those. But will set it aside.
What I hope to see is that Zimmerman does get a fair trial. He will go to jail but not life. ONE IS living and I do not want
blood on my hands. One is sadly gone, and all we can give the dead is the TRUTH.
But the know it all KNOW with missing parts to a puzzle and is not fair for the public at large not to read another view.
JUSTICE IS IMPRTANT - VENGENCE IS AN ILLNESS.

Great post and I agree 100%

Blackstone's formulation - "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm not sure why your asking me all these questions. I was just curious why mercuriod feels that 17yr olds are "calloused" now a days compared to 17yr olds of the past.

Sorry, those questions were not intended for you... but those are the questions LE would want to know if she did go down there and tried to report Trayvon missing. My point is... it doesn't make her a callous girl since she didn't run down to the Miami Police Department to report Trayvon wouldn't answer his phone.

Sorry if you took it as me questioning you? I have a habit of adding question marks when I shouldn't too. It's a habit? Again, sorry.

 

[LinasK]

Thank you :blushing:
I am holding my Ground: as you know I always do

I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. NO. I am not saying that Trayvon is innocent. No
I see a heavily tipped public opinion with many missing parts to a puzzle.
I do believe that because Al Sharpton and all the heavy’s came in it tipped the case to become a racial case.
The public opinion has been tainted by media and whatever else.
A middle ground may sway the scales of balance.
IMO it is a case of sloppy police work. EVEN if GZ claimed self defense it has to be thoroughly investigated and they
dropped the ball. While Trayvon’s parents deserve answers and I am glad a case is at hand.
I believe that Zimmerman was turned into a victim too. Is it aggravated assault, manslaughter possibly.
I am sure there are reasons she gave murder 2 and I can read into some of those. But will set it aside.
What I hope to see is that Zimmerman does get a fair trial. He will go to jail but not life. ONE IS living and I do not want
blood on my hands. One is sadly gone, and all we can give the dead is the TRUTH.
But the know it all KNOW with missing parts to a puzzle and is not fair for the public at large not to read another view.
JUSTICE IS IMPRTANT - VENGENCE IS AN ILLNESS.

Although Al Sharpton has a history as a race baiter, I don't think he turned it into a racial case- I think there is plenty of evidence that both GZ and the SPD are racist, without Al's comments, but Al brought the case national attention. That's when I took notice...
And I don't think Zimmerman was ever a victim- I think the "fight" is his made-up defense that he shot an unarmed black male without good cause.

 

[Karmady]

:floorlaugh: Welcome to Websleuths!! :floorlaugh: We are your life now! Trust me!! I was sucked in all the way back in 2008!

Seriously! I went in to a collegue's office to "report" the murder 2 charge. lol We were discussing it and I realized that I knew WAY too much about the details so I was like, "and, oh boy, so how 'bout those Coyotes" lmbo

 

[mercuriod]

I would have never stoped till someone helped figure this out.
WASNT he taking her to the prom? That was her guy...
You dont do nothing? after a LASTcall like that :what:

She didn't not do nothing, she tried to call SFD and they did not return her call, she told her mother. Why are you trying to put this terrible burden on a 15 year old girl? She was 15 years old for gods sake! Hasn't she suffered enough? She has already had to be hospitalized because of all of this, now you want to put blame on her for SFD's failings? <mod snip>

 

[Velouria]

BBM :floorlaugh:Yes I can imagine...
she had to know where he lives, I would go wherever, who ever I can reach out to.
.. I would not stop till I can find out - After a LAST call like the she describes.

But what if it was not exactly like that? Just a little different.
Then I can see how 3 weeks go by and she is just saying to herself
OH GOD he got grounded real bad.

I'm sure she did know where he lived, but he wasn't staying at his own home, remember?

How do you know she said nothing to anyone for 3 weeks?

 

[songline]

I don't know how things work in NY, but whatever it is they do up there, does not apply to down here because that is not the way it works?

I never knew he was taking her to Prom? Were tickets even on sale before he was killed?

Wait... it is not about NY
On PROM night if you have a GF EVEN in movies not only in NY
they usualy go together. Am I missing something?

His mom said he was looking forward to go to the Prom