17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

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  • #261
I respectfully disagree, Ima. Some seem to have a vested interest in defending GZ's actions by considering and declaring Trayvon a full on adult, IMO

On the other hand, I don't understand how Trayvon can be considered MORE of a victim because he was underage according the the law. He was shot dead. Dead is DEAD. How can one be MORE of a victim than that by virtue of his age?

JMO

JMO, and this is really, JMO:twocents:...others mmv

I don't think Trayvon is more of a victim because of his age. I think, though, there are people who are working as had as possible to minimize and (in their minds) equalize this case.

And this is some of the tortured logic that I've seen all over the place...it goes something like this...
:maddening:

1. T. Martin 17..close enough to an adult, yea, he's an adult
2. G. Zimmerman, 28, an adult
So, on points 1 and 2, they were basically "even." :wink:

3. T. Martin had some sort of high school record
4. G. Zimmerman had some sort of Florida police record
So, on points 3 and 4 they were basically "even".:wink:

5. T Martin deliberately wore clothes that "identified" him as a potential criminal.
6. G. Zimmerman was a dedicated volunteer crime fighter, always watching for potential criminals.
So, on points 5 and 6 they were basically "even." :wink:

7. T. Martin had tea and skittles on him.
8. G. Zimmerman had a 9mm on him.
They both had something, so on points 7 and 8 they were basically "even." :wink:

Get my point??? If you can just "equalize" things in a way that seems somewhat acceptable, then this case might just become a
"He said, He said." :banghead:


Gosh, that's sad, but understandable..move along, nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

Except...that this case is more accurately a "He said, He dead." :(
And this kind of logic (IMO) is patently ridiculous.
 
  • #262
True...Homes was used back in the day...I believe today the word 'son' is used...I hear it all the time...Yo' son, wanna play some bball...:what:

I believe those are GZ's own words to again support his SYG defense..along with the mini western of, you're gonna die tonight, you got me...all out of the mouth of one I consider to be incredible...

Also considering that this spaghetti type Western cool and collected verbiage was uttered during the same time as the blood chilling desperate screams of Trayvon. Incredible, indeed.
 
  • #263
so now, if one thinks TM is not a child they are defending GZ's actions?

in my mind a "child" is more like the 12 yr old pic they showed of him or younger, not an over 6ft teen.

and if this situation were reversed and GZ dead, would he be tried as a child or would everyone be calling him a child?

I'm sure there would be some who felt that TM should be tried as adult and some who felt he should be tried in the juvenile system. But then that's not what we're dealing with here, is it?

Fact is, he was a person under the age of 18, meaning in the state of Florida that substantially elevates the possible penalty for causing his death.
 
  • #264
Just a Reminder...

We are allowing MSM links only at this time...
Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link.


 
  • #265
Keep records sealed in Trayvon Martin case, defense lawyer says

George Zimmerman’s lawyer, appearing on CNN Monday night, said court records in the Trayvon Martin case need to be kept private to protect witnesses.

The defense attorney representing George Zimmerman, who faces second-degree murder charges in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, appeared on CNN Monday night explaining why he believes the court records in the highly controversial case should remain sealed.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/17/2753497/keep-records-sealed-in-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

I happen to like Mr. O'Mara alot and while I'm glad that Zimmerman has a good attorney, I think he now needs to get out of the media spotlight himself. Asking for the records to be sealed yet turning around and being interviewed time after time sure doesn't make a very good argument as to why the records shouldn't be released. If he isn't careful, he's going to end up being another Baez.



~jmo~

I hear ya. :seeya: But truthfully, I wouldn't mind MOM's media appearances if he could somehow manage to keep FT off my tv screen! :rant::footinmouth:
 
  • #266
I hear ya. :seeya: But truthfully, I wouldn't mind MOM's media appearances if he could somehow manage to keep FT off my tv screen! :rant::footinmouth:

Ain't that the truth!!!
 
  • #267
JMO, and this is really, JMO:twocents:...others mmv

I don't think Trayvon is more of a victim because of his age. I think, though, there are people who are working as had as possible to minimize and (in their minds) equalize this case.

And this is some of the tortured logic that I've seen all over the place...it goes something like this...:maddening:

1. T. Martin 17..close enough to an adult, yea, he's an adult
2. G. Zimmerman, 28, an adult
So, on points 1 and 2, they were basically "even." :wink:

3. T. Martin had some sort of high school record
4. G. Zimmerman had some sort of Florida police record
So, on points 3 and 4 they were basically "even".:wink:

5. T Martin deliberately wore clothes that "identified" him as a potential criminal.
6. G. Zimmerman was a dedicated volunteer crime fighter, always watching for potential criminals.
So, on points 5 and 6 they were basically "even." :wink:

7. T. Martin had tea and skittles on him.
8. G. Zimmerman had a 9mm on him.
They both had something, so on points 7 and 8 they were basically "even." :wink:

Get my point??? If you can just "equalize" things in a way that seems somewhat acceptable, then this case might just become a
"He said, He said." :banghead:


Gosh, that's sad, but understandable..move along, nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

Except...that this case is more accurately a "He said, He dead." :(
And this kind of logic (IMO) is patently ridiculous.

I don't think anyone is "equalizing" things the way you posted. I don't think anyone is trying to equalize anything. I think we all are just trying to figure this out.

Ima
 
  • #268
Just a Reminder...

We are allowing MSM links only at this time...
Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link.




Sorry...I think that was me...I thought I posted from Bloombergs site but it was that other blog...I do apologize...Can I just post a link?
 
  • #269
Keep records sealed in Trayvon Martin case, defense lawyer says

George Zimmerman’s lawyer, appearing on CNN Monday night, said court records in the Trayvon Martin case need to be kept private to protect witnesses.

The defense attorney representing George Zimmerman, who faces second-degree murder charges in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, appeared on CNN Monday night explaining why he believes the court records in the highly controversial case should remain sealed.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/17/2753497/keep-records-sealed-in-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

I happen to like Mr. O'Mara alot and while I'm glad that Zimmerman has a good attorney, I think he now needs to get out of the media spotlight himself. Asking for the records to be sealed yet turning around and being interviewed time after time sure doesn't make a very good argument as to why the records shouldn't be released. If he isn't careful, he's going to end up being another Baez.



~jmo~

Redact the witnesses personal information and no problem, they will be protected!
 
  • #270
Well I'm not sure what happened to the post, nor do I know who posted it, but I think this SYG law should be taken out of the streets. I think change to the "Retreat to the Wall" part makes no sense, especially when you're standing in an open field. If you're in your home, and you have gone as far as you, then shoot the intruder, in this case you know he's up to no good, but when someone is just out for a walk, and you think something about this person does not look "right" then all you have to do is shoot him, no questions aske, no arrest. Makes no sense, not to me anyway. I sure hope changes are in the works for this crazy law.
 
  • #271
so now, if one thinks TM is not a child they are defending GZ's actions?

in my mind a "child" is more like the 12 yr old pic they showed of him or younger, not an over 6ft teen.

and if this situation were reversed and GZ dead, would he be tried as a child or would everyone be calling him a child?

I'm certainly not defending GZ's actions. Because none of us know what happened, I am open to the possibility GZ may have been put in a position of having to defend himself. I would never post statements as fact that Trayvon is the guilty party in this, because I do not know.
 
  • #272
Sorry...I think that was me...I thought I posted from Bloombergs site but it was that other blog...I do apologize...Can I just post a link?

It ok, not a problem at all. We can't link unless its an MSM. I can't remember which ones have been approved but I'll find out and put in the Opening post. Can you find the same article thru an MSM?

Ima
 
  • #273
Redact the witnesses personal information and no problem, they will be protected!

That's what I was thinking as well. I think it's a little ridiculous. Zimmerman should be treated absolutely no different than any other defendant in the state of Florida.



~jmo~
 
  • #274
<modsnip>

Under the law anyone under the age of 18 is considered a minor. There is no proof whatsoever that TM did anything to provoke a fight with GZ. GZ has been arrested now because there appears to be enough evidence to prove things did not go down the way GZ stated. TM was no armed with any weapons and unless other evidence is revealed he should be considered a victum and should be treated as such. Any speculation that TM was out that night looking for trouble is just that, speculation only. TM was close to where he was staying, only GZ was where he was not suppose to be.

Guns kill people and TM did not have a gun. GZ, however, did and the end result was someone ended up dead. Obviously GZ did not use his best judgment when he tried to handle this matter. In the end, it will be GZs' actions that will come into play here and not TM's. jmo
 
  • #275
I'm certainly not defending GZ's actions. Because none of us know what happened, I am open to the possibility GZ may have been put in a position of having to defend himself. I would never post statements as fact that Trayvon is the guilty party in this, because I do not know.

Trayvon was minding his own business walking home from the store. Zimmerman took it upon himself to chase/follow him after being told not to (or are we going to argue that again, too?). Trayvon had every reason to be frightened and every right to defend himself from being followed and accosted by a total stranger.

How can Zimmerman be in a position of defending himself when he was the one that put himself in that postion to begin with?

:banghead:

IMO
 
  • #276
Well I'm not sure what happened to the post, nor do I know who posted it, but I think this SYG law should be taken out of the streets. I think change to the "Retreat to the Wall" part makes no sense, especially when you're standing in an open field. If you're in your home, and you have gone as far as you, then shoot the intruder, in this case you know he's up to no good, but when someone is just out for a walk, and you think something about this person does not look "right" then all you have to do is shoot him, no questions aske, no arrest. Makes no sense, not to me anyway. I sure hope changes are in the works for this crazy law.

Thanks, you answered an enigma I was trying to figure out. I think I was replying to that post also and suddenly, I got a message that my post went into moderation for review. I thought may be the Langoliers are on the lose in Websleuths.
Yes, that SYG. It is like "Oops you scared me", followed by "Boom you are history". The part I do not understand is the "immunity" claim.
In my non legal mind , it sounds in violation with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. How is that equal justice for all when the dead victim never gets his/her day in court and due process?
May be folks claiming SYG are on a mission from the NRA and are granted diplomatic immunity? It just makes no logical sense to me..
 
  • #277
In Florida a 17 yr old can get a license to drive a 4,000 lb. car.

Can, with parental or legal guardian consent, join the US military.

Can, with parental or legal guardian consent, become an emancipated minor.



http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/teen-drivers.php

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_age_requirements_for_US_military_enlistment

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7482819_florida-laws-emancipation-minors-parents.html

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0743/0743.html
 
  • #278
In Florida a 17 yr old can get a license to drive a 4,000 lb. car.

Can, with parental or legal guardian consent, join the US military.

Can, with parental or legal guardian consent, become an emancipated minor.



http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/teen-drivers.php

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_age_requirements_for_US_military_enlistment

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7482819_florida-laws-emancipation-minors-parents.html

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0743/0743.html

The kicker is that they need parental permission as they are still unable to make these kinds of decisions for themselves because they are minors.
 
  • #279
In Florida a 17 yr old can get a license to drive a 4,000 lb. car.

Can, with parental or legal guardian consent, join the US military.

Can, with parental or legal guardian consent, become an emancipated minor.



http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/teen-drivers.php

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_age_requirements_for_US_military_enlistment

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7482819_florida-laws-emancipation-minors-parents.html

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0743/0743.html


Cannot have a concealed weapon with permit!
 
  • #280
Cannot have a concealed weapon with permit!

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say most teenagers, 17 or otherwise, looking to get a gun are not trying to do it under 'legal' pretenses.
 
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