17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[gxm]

Isn't that's why it's called a 'hypothetical'? :waitasec:

The hypothetical is attempting to answer the question on the law? Do you know the answer?

Here's another hypothetical. If I start following you around the corner and you start getting scared, can you turn around, pull a gun out and shoot me, then claim SYG?

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just wondering if that's how the law is supposed to be interpreted.

BBM.

IMO, that's a very good question. I'd be interested to know the legal answer.

 

[tlcya]

You mean like the one-step-away-from-being-spoon-fed-by-big brother-for-the-rest-of-his-life, not-so-much-as-a-Spongebob-bandaid-from-the-EMTs sort of "great bodily harm"?

Don't forget the diapers Velouria. Per Brother he was moments away from adult diapers.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

You seem very sure that there was no blood or marks. I have not seen any clear photos of GZ from the night of the incident. Perhaps you can forward them to me?

IMO, it's quite clear in the police surveillance video that Zimmerman was free of bandages and looked surprisingly clean considering the struggle he claims to have been through (I personally did not find it as "grainy" as some people suggest).

If he had an open wound on his nose or the back of his head, the EMTs would have treated and bandaged those wounds. I seriously doubt that they would have let him leave with the open gash he claims to have had on the back of his head (especially if it possibly needed stitches) without at least putting on a bandage to protect it from dirt and possible infection. Yet I don't see that at all. I also don't see any of the lacerations and contusions that would be likely if his head had been smashed repeatedly into the concrete as he claims.

Additionally, in the video, the police officers are touching and handling him freely with no gloves on to guard against a possible biohazard - which they would (or should) not be doing if Zimmerman had any blood on his head and/or clothing. I find it very difficult to believe that they would be handling a man covered in bodily fluids without some kind of protection on their hands. That would suggest to me that not only was his shirt free of blood, but his jacket likely was clear of it as well.

The police report states that he had blood on his face and head, but doesn't clarify if the blood was his own, or Martin's - the two women who saw Zimmerman straddling Martin's body, Mary Cutcher and Selma Lamilla, stated that Zimmerman was pacing around the body, touching his own head and looking confused (this was during an interview with Anderson Cooper). So I'm not sure how clear it is that the blood came from himself, or from Martin.

 

[tlcya]

I would really like to know if they have any probable cause, since he has been arrested for 2nd degree murder, to get his computer records? I think it would be interesting to see if he had any knowledge of the SYG laws prior to the shooting that night? What online forums did he belong to, if he belonged to any? What online activity, if any, did he have prior to going out that night?

I would like to know his frame of mind the moment he walked out of that door.

MOO

I too am exteremely curious as to GZ's knowledge of SYG. It is my own personal belief that this man was very very aware of this statute. Thanks to the sunshine laws if they do seek out those things, we will know soon enough the answers.

 

[m00c0w]

Don't forget the diapers Velouria. Per Brother he was moments away from adult diapers.

Are we still mischaracterizing his statements? :waitasec:

 

[Isabelle]

I would really like to know if they have any probable cause, since he has been arrested for 2nd degree murder, to get his computer records? I think it would be interesting to see if he had any knowledge of the SYG laws prior to the shooting that night? What online forums did he belong to, if he belonged to any? What online activity, if any, did he have prior to going out that night?

I would like to know his frame of mind the moment he walked out of that door.

MOO

Wouldn't you think SYG was covered in classes he took in Criminal Justice?

 

[songline]

You mean like the one-step-away-from-being-spoon-fed-by-big brother-for-the-rest-of-his-life, not-so-much-as-a-Spongebob-bandaid-from-the-EMTs sort of "great bodily harm"?

Natasha Richardson did not have one band aid. the ambulance came she said she is fine, she did not want to go with them
and just wanted to go to her foom to lay down. She never got up. I got this from a link that is not MSN or Fox.
And we do not need another virus. but the info below is a fact....

According to published reports, all present at the scene thought that the head injury sustained by Richardson was minor.
She was not unconscious, was able to fully respond to those offering her assistance and refused further medical evaluation.
Only later did she begin to develop a severe headache and was rushed to the hospital where it was discovered that she
sustained a brain hemorrhage causing pressure changes within the skull resulting in brain damage.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Do we know if George's wife was home that night and how long after the shooting did she find out what was going on? I would think, with the way they have been so alert, if she were home, she would have noticed all the cops everywhere? Was she the one who called Daddy Zimmerman or was George afforded that at the police station?

Just some simple questions that I am curious about?

 

[HiHater]

I would really like to know if they have any probable cause, since he has been arrested for 2nd degree murder, to get his computer records? I think it would be interesting to see if he had any knowledge of the SYG laws prior to the shooting that night? What online forums did he belong to, if he belonged to any? What online activity, if any, did he have prior to going out that night?

I would like to know his frame of mind the moment he walked out of that door.

MOO

Me too...but I'm not as interested in his online activities that night. I'd like to know if he argued with his wife or someone else just prior to leaving his home. :moo:

 

[songline]

Are we still mischaracterizing his statements? :waitasec:

very much :yes:

 

[Adrienne37]

IMO, it's quite clear in the police surveillance video that Zimmerman was free of bandages and looked surprisingly clean considering the struggle he claims to have been through (I personally did not find it as "grainy" as some people suggest).

If he had an open wound on his nose or the back of his head, the EMTs would have treated and bandaged those wounds. I seriously doubt that they would have let him leave with the open gash he claims to have had on the back of his head (especially if it possibly needed stitches) without at least putting on a bandage to protect it from dirt and possible infection. Yet I don't see that at all. I also don't see any of the lacerations and contusions that would be likely if his head had been smashed repeatedly into the concrete as he claims.

Additionally, in the video, the police officers are touching and handling him freely with no gloves on to guard against a possible biohazard - which they would (or should) not be doing if Zimmerman had any blood on his head and/or clothing. I find it very difficult to believe that they would be handling a man covered in bodily fluids without some kind of protection on their hands. That would suggest to me that not only was his shirt free of blood, but his jacket likely was clear of it as well.

The police report states that he had blood on his face and head, but doesn't clarify if the blood was his own, or Martin's - the two women who saw Zimmerman straddling Martin's body, Mary Cutcher and Selma Lamilla, stated that Zimmerman was pacing around the body, touching his own head and looking confused (this was during an interview with Anderson Cooper). So I'm not sure how clear it is that the blood came from himself, or from Martin.

You have to remember though, from the standpoint of MANY, Ms. Cutcher and Ms. Lamilla are not credible witnesses for one reason or another. Much less reliable than the ones who said they saw the guy in red on bottom.


~jmo~


~jmo~

 

[Adrienne37]

Yes, because LE put it in the report, it must be right. 1st report, amended report? :seeya:

or how about "partial" report.


~jmo~

 

[HiHater]

Natasha Richardson didnot have one band aid. the amulance came she said she is fine, she did not want to go with them and just wanted to go to her foom to lay down. She never got up. I got this from a link that is not MSN or Fox. And we do not need another virus. but the info below is a fact....

According to published reports, all present at the scene thought that the head injury sustained by Richardson was minor. She was not unconscious, was able to fully respond to those offering her assistance and refused further medical evaluation. Only later did she begin to develop a severe headache and was rushed to the hospital where it was discovered that she sustained a brain hemorrhage causing pressure changes within the skull resulting in brain damage.

Was she bleeding externally? BBM

 

[Isabelle]

BBM.

IMO, that's a very good question. I'd be interested to know the legal answer.

I would not think the law works that way. People would be killing people left and right, not that they aren't doing that already.

 

[m00c0w]

Under the law as it existed BEFORE Stand Your Ground, people had the right to protect themselves and their homes. Law enforcement and legal authorities went before the Florida Legislature to say that the provisions in SYG were NOT needed and that it would probably lead to abuses, exactly the kind of abuses that have been seen.

SYG is just overkill in every sense of the word. It goes too far and needs to be repealed. Getting rid of SYG will not remove the pre-existing rights to protect life and property, it will just remove the extraordinary provisions added for no rational reason.

JMO, IMO, etc.

I've already demonstrated why the provisions in this law are far from necessary. People had the right to protect themselves outside their home if they made a reasonable attempt to retreat first. They could also be arrested and held in jail for months while they and their family suffers for the actions of a pure criminal. They could lose their job, their admission to college, their children if it's a single parent...

There is nothing wrong with this law. If the police are corrupt, the police are corrupt. No legislation will change that. If there was an unlawful use of force, there are remedies for prosecuting the individual to the fullest extent of the law. I fail to see the problem here. The law protects the victims of violent crime, while allowing those that overstep their right to self defense to be prosecuted for manslaughter or greater.

 

[Isabelle]

very much :yes:

I don't see why not. Trayvon's actions are as much as being mischaracterized, theorized, whatever. Better to do that to a living beings who can speak for themselves than a dead person.

 

[Adrienne37]

Are we still mischaracterizing his statements? :waitasec:

How in the world can you mischaracterize Junior's statements? That's exactly what he said - his brother was barely conscious, trying to lift his head off the concrete because he was one step away from being in diapers and being spoon fed by his brother for the rest of his life. Sounds like a pretty specific statement to me about the extent of Zimmerman's injuries, no mischaracterization necessary at all.


~jmo~

 

[AngelWings444]

Were you a witness at the scene? I'd say that report is better than any sheer conjecture that someone manages to dredge up to fit a preconceived notion. Maybe just me, though.

Is that your opinion? Were you a witness? So, we are to believe everything in the police report? Then, you would agree we should believe the charging documents as well. No need for a jury, just read the report. Sanford police have a history, read up on it. Sheer conjecture, heck, close down WS, no need for differing opinions. :floorlaugh:

All IMO, JMO and all that jazz!

ETA: didn't one officer want him arrested and charged?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Natasha Richardson didnot have one band aid. the amulance came she said she is fine, she did not want to go with them and just wanted to go to her foom to lay down. She never got up. I got this from a link that is not MSN or Fox. And we do not need another virus. but the info below is a fact....

According to published reports, all present at the scene thought that the head injury sustained by Richardson was minor. She was not unconscious, was able to fully respond to those offering her assistance and refused further medical evaluation. Only later did she begin to develop a severe headache and was rushed to the hospital where it was discovered that she sustained a brain hemorrhage causing pressure changes within the skull resulting in brain damage.

What does Natasha Richardson's case have to do with George Zimmerman? He didn't lay down and never get up? Apples/oranges.

 

[m00c0w]

I don't see why not. Trayvon's actions are as much as being mischaracterized, theorized, whatever. Better to do that to a living beings who can speak for themselves than a dead person.

No, we know exactly what was said by the brother. We don't know what Trayvon did, or was doing. There's a very large difference between those two things, and one allows for conjecture. The other is a deliberate mischaracterization.