17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[suzihawk]

Plus I will say this again....
If we are having that much disagreement whether it was a binding order or not I expect getting 12 jury members to agree on it will be just as hard.

Hopefully it will be determined whether the jurors are able to exhibit simple common sense and critical thinking before being seated.

If my boss tells me, "You don't need to being doing that." :nono:, I would know exactly what he means.

If my doctor tell me, "You don't need to be doing that." regarding smoking :nono:, I know exactly what he means. That I should STOP.

Even a two year old knows that when a parent tells them, "I don't need you to do that." :nono: when behaving inappropriately, they mean to STOP.

Zimmerman knew exactly what that dispatcher meant. Unless he's less intelligent than a two year old.

IMO

 

[LynnM]

It has been pointed out many times by posters that GZ was not legally obligated to follow the dispatchers instruction not to follow TM. Chief Lee has done the same That doesn't mean that GZ following TM isn't important evidence.

It's part of determining what happened. It's not illegal for me to go into a bank but it would be illegal for me to rob the bank once I got there. If the bank was robbed and I'm suspected of having done it, the police have to place me in the bank during that time period.

We learned from the bond hearing that GZ gave statements that are inconsistent with the evidence. We don't know this yet of course, but it's very possible that GZ told the police that he never followed TM at all, not knowing that his call was recorded. This is in the statement that his father gave where he said that at no time did GZ follow TM. If true, this would show that GZ lied in his statement to the police in a way that showed consciousness of guilt.

We know from GZ's own words to the dispatcher that he did follow TM. Did he stop following him as indicated by saying "Okay" when he was told he didn't need to do that? If he did, then why didn't he agree to meet the police at the mailboxes or why didn't he just describe his car and tell the operator that the police would see him on that particular street. Why did he want them to call him? He says it's because he doesn't want TM to know where he is. But if he was going to return to his car, well Trayvon already knew where that car was.

We now know that there was a witness that saw one man chasing another. Apparently the witness could not identify the men. But the very fact that there were two men running may be significant depending on where they saw it and when because it may contradict the story that GZ was returning to his vehicle when he was jumped from behind by TM.

 

[cityslick]

Hey may still get convicted and I'm curious to see what other evidence the state has. I know what I heard the detective say yesterday. MOM asked him flat out if he had evidence of GZ not returning to his car or if they had evidence of who attacked who first. Gilbreath(sp?) said no to both. He also asked about evidence about who was chasing who and he said they had no evidence on who was chasing who.

I caught a little of NG and other shows last night and almost every TH agreed that those answers hurts the state, because now MOM has those answers on the record, under oath. He can come back and say 'you have no evidence to prove that GZ was chasing TM, you have no evidence that GZ instigated physical contact because you testified on 4/19 that you had no evidence.

Now, that being said, I believe the investigation is still ongoing and I think they can turn up something as time goes on that would support what they have in the affidavit.

 

[cityslick]

It has been pointed out many times by posters that GZ was not legally obligated to follow the dispatchers instruction not to follow TM. Chief Lee has done the same That doesn't mean that GZ following TM isn't important evidence.

It's part of determining what happened. It's not illegal for me to go into a bank but it would be illegal for me to rob the bank once I got there. If the bank was robbed and I'm suspected of having done it, the police have to place me in the bank during that time period.

We learned from the bond hearing that GZ gave statements that are inconsistent with the evidence. We don't know this yet of course, but it's very possible that GZ told the police that he never followed TM at all, not knowing that his call was recorded. This is in the statement that his father gave where he said that at no time did GZ follow TM. If true, this would show that GZ lied in his statement to the police in a way that showed consciousness of guilt.

We know from GZ's own words to the dispatcher that he did follow TM. Did he stop following him as indicated by saying "Okay" when he was told he didn't need to do that? If he did, then why didn't he agree to meet the police at the mailboxes or why didn't he just describe his car and tell the operator that the police would see him on that particular street. Why did he want them to call him? He says it's because he doesn't want TM to know where he is. But if he was going to return to his car, well Trayvon already knew where that car was.

We now know that there was a witness that saw one man chasing another. Apparently the witness could not identify the men. But the very fact that there were two men running may be significant depending on where they saw it and when because it may contradict the story that GZ was returning to his vehicle when he was jumped from behind by TM.

BBM

You may be correct, but the damning thing is the detective got on the stand yesterday and said they had no evidence of who was pursuing who or if he did in fact go back to his car. That's on the record now.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

There are decisions in Florida law that seems to work against GZ:

“... A killing is not justifiable or excusable if the defendant brought about the necessity ...without being reasonably free from fault in provoking the difficulty in which the killing occurred.” Lovett v. State, 30 Fla. 142, 11 So. 550, 17 L. R. A. 705; Ballard v. State, 31 Fla. 266, 12 So. 865; Padgett v. State, 40 Fla. 451, 24 So. 145.

GM's defiance and the fast velocity of running toward TM while still on the "911" call indicates a mindset that provoked the difficulty...

The incident took place in an area that GZ had no need to be. This path did not lead back to GZ's truck, which is where he claims he was going. If he just wanted to see the address of TM's block, there were closer town homes to view the numbers on.

Neither GZ or TM's girlfriend reported an appropriate greeting upon conversing with TM. The first words out of GZ's mouth should have been something like, "Hey. I'm president of the Neighborhood Watch... Do you live around here?"

GZ is guilty of the same thing he claimed the officer he battered was guilty of. He said the plainclothesman who was arresting his friend never identified himself as LE... or else he would never have hit him.

Likewise, he didn't identify himself to TM. He chased down an innocent minor, possibly forced the kid into a Stand Your Ground moment, and then killed him -- when he didn't have to.

Trayvon screamed in terror for too long a time before that gun finally went off. GZ should have let TM keep screaming, as a way of helping alert the neighbors & authorities.

It all adds up to provocation. And depravity. GZ's self-defense claim shouldn't stand.

Excellent post...if only the State used this yesterday...I believe the state will show who the agressor was and it was GZ..the prosecutor briefly mentioned that yesterday, then quickly said, we won't get into this now...so I believe at trial, he will show the agressor as you point out in your post...

I was so unimpressed...I don't understand how that investigator didn't have more information to back up the claim. Why didn't he say more on the call that was recorded, his mind set was certainly shown...the investigator was very unprepared but I only pray they will do better during the trial, with the evidence to back it up..it did appear to me, that the state has more than the defense knows at this point...

The best information that came out and will probably go against GZ, is the allegation of the 5 different stories GZ gave them. Each time he was confronted with this inconsistencies, he didn't remember...

His claim of TM circling his vehicle 3 times, is incredible...I hope this will also prove him to be untruthful..the depraved mind will come into play, especially if it's true that after GZ shot Trayvon, he lunged on him not knowing how fatal that gunshot was...I say BS to this too...he was up close and personal when he shot TM to death..if he fell flat on his face, why in the world did GZ straddle him? He must have watched as TM's last breath escaped from his lungs..never tried to render aide...

I believe his family has also misrepresented good old GZ's true self. I almost wanted to go through the screen as they were talking what a good citizen he is...He's not violent, he protects himself when provoked but dad claims he turns the other cheek...but his criminal history states otherwise..this family says 'absolutely' alot...is this something said in Florida alot? This family reminds me of that other family who also lied, told mistruths, untruths and misrepresented...deja vu.....:maddening:

I also thought the prosecutor was trying to get a reaction from GZ when he confronted him on some issues...still GZ wasn't being truthful and I believe the state was getting it on record to come back later and confront him on his inconsistencies...

GZ talking so meek and mild with his monotone voice and most insincere apology..I hope it comes back to haunt him..what an insult the TM's family..If that were me, the moment he took the stand, I'd have gotten up and walked right out of that courtroom...I believe GZ disregards anything from anyone and does as he pleases, as he sees fit...Passive, aggressive personality..a know it all type...his 'dreams' of being a judge or majestrate, really at this age? Shouldn't he be set in his profession already? I think GZ's anger issues will be front and center when this gets to trial..

This judge seems to be very conservative...he didn't think GZ posed a threat, well, now he wouldn't...he can't use his weapon, so....the community is safe, for now...:banghead:

 

[saguaro]

I've heard a few voice messages left on others answering machines of George Zimmerman on youtube and he is very soft spoken.

I also thought he came off as sincere. I do think he feels sorry for having killed this young man.

IMO.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

BBM

You may be correct, but the damning thing is the detective got on the stand yesterday and said they had no evidence of who was pursuing who or if he did in fact go back to his car. That's on the record now.

but the State also said to the defense and the court, you don't know what evidence we have uncovered, so I'm guessing there is plenty not known about as yet...

I don't understand how the state wasn't prepared for this bond hearing, unless it was just a last minute thing OMara did to catch them off guard..the investigator made mention of the call and didn't come out directly and state GZ's state of mind...but did mention about not letting him get away...he knew he didn't return to his vehicle cause you can hear him run, out of breath, still in pursuit...hoping this investigator does better during the trial..he seemed nervous and I don't know what the heck that was about..

The timeline will also come into play..where TM body was shot dead will show that GZ never returned to his vehicle...besides the fact it was so far away from where they both were when TM was shot dead...and if he truly lunged on his body, not knowing how fatally shot TM was, didn't render aide, will go to the 'depraved' mind...

70 yards from the front door...poor TM...I can't imagine what the last two minutes of his life felt like for him...but he was frightened and this also will be told at trial...:rose:

I also heard last night there is a surprise witness that will put GZ's claims at rest? Did anyone else hear mention of that?

 

[cityslick]

I've heard a few voice messages left on others answering machines of George Zimmerman on youtube and he is very soft spoken.

I also thought he came off as sincere. I do think he feels sorry for having killed this young man.

IMO.

I'm not naive to think that it wasn't done primarily for GZ's benefit. Now, I can't stand NG and I think most of what she does is one big act but she did make a point on her show last night. She asked the martin attorney why they were upset at the apology and his answer was because it wasn't really a apology, it was self serving. And her point was, your an attorney, when in your life have you ever seen any defendant get up on the stand and not be self serving. The point being, what did you really expect him to say when MOM announced that GZ wanted to make a statement. She also brought up what many brought up here yesterday, if he got up there and said no apology, you (meaning the martin attorney) would of got in front of the camera and railed on GZ for not making an apology.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I've heard a few voice messages left on others answering machines of George Zimmerman on youtube and he is very soft spoken.

I also thought he came off as sincere. I do think he feels sorry for having killed this young man.

IMO.

That was self serving...sincere? He lied...

He did have an idea that TM was a teen....now he thought he was much closer to his age? Would it had made a difference if he were 20, 30 or 40?

He deemed an innocent teen a criminal, in his mind this guy was up to no good, on drugs or something...how the hell does that make this better?

I hope the state had done a psycological on this guy to see where his mindframe stands..He's coming off as a vigilante due to the aggressive nature of how he followed TM and was unrelentless in the pursuit..he was adamant to not let another a**hole get away...I don't understand why that investigator didn't tell it like it is....I am so unimpressed with them...I hope they do better for TM at trial....

 

[Marshmallow]

To dispatch a police car, obviously. That is their function.

then why not wait for them if you know enough to call them? this wasn't a life saving incident, there was no crime going on that needed stopping and could not wait for the proper authorities.

 

[cityslick]

but the State also said to the defense and the court, you don't know what evidence we have uncovered, so I'm guessing there is plenty not known about as yet...

I don't understand how the state wasn't prepared for this bond hearing, unless it was just a last minute thing OMara did to catch them off guard..the investigator made mention of the call and didn't come out directly and state GZ's state of mind...but did mention about not letting him get away...he knew he didn't return to his vehicle cause you can hear him run, out of breath, still in pursuit...hoping this investigator does better during the trial..he seemed nervous and I don't know what the heck that was about..

The timeline will also come into play..where TM body was shot dead will show that GZ never returned to his vehicle...besides the fact it was so far away from where they both were when TM was shot dead...and if he truly lunged on his body, not knowing how fatally shot TM was, didn't render aide, will go to the 'depraved' mind...

70 yards from the front door...poor TM...I can't imagine what the last two minutes of his life felt like for him...but he was frightened and this also will be told at trial...:rose:

I also heard last night there is a surprise witness that will put GZ's claims at rest? Did anyone else hear mention of that?

He surely wasn't prepared and it showed. It's bothersome when someone testifies in absolutes. You are right, the state has a lot more evidence than we know. But the fact that he said, we have no evidence of this or that, that's telling to me. Unless he lied, which is even a bigger issue for the state (credibility). If they really do have more evidence on specifically what he was questioned on (who started what, if GZ really did not go back to his car), he shouldn't of answered in the absolute of 'no'.

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

I'm not naive to think that it wasn't done primarily for GZ's benefit. Now, I can't stand NG and I think most of what she does is one big act but she did make a point on her show last night. She asked the martin attorney why they were upset at the apology and his answer was because it wasn't really a apology, it was self serving. And her point was, your an attorney, when in your life have you ever seen any defendant get up on the stand and not be self serving. The point being, what did you really expect him to say when MOM announced that GZ wanted to make a statement. She also brought up what many brought up here yesterday, if he got up there and said no apology, you (meaning the martin attorney) would of got in front of the camera and railed on GZ for not making an apology.

I really don't think there's any way he could have apologized that would satisfy people. Shoulda just kept his mouth shut! :twocents:

 

[suzihawk]

I've heard a few voice messages left on others answering machines of George Zimmerman on youtube and he is very soft spoken.

I also thought he came off as sincere. I do think he feels sorry for having killed this young man.

IMO.

He didn't come off as sincere to me. Not by any means or manner.

He never said he was sorry for killing this young man. He said he was sorry for their loss - sorry they 'lost' their child. Trayvon Martin isn't missing. He isn't lost :waitasec: Trayvon Martin is DEAD. Dead because of his own preconcieved thoughts and aggressive actions.

IMO

 

[Aedrys]

Lord, my mother is watching Fox News and I happened to hear some of it. They totally believe the bloody GZ head picture and also believe that GZ is innocent. It makes me sick. I almost laughed when they said we don't know all the facts of that night, and I wanted to shout, YOU'RE RIGHT! So why is it that they just assume, without all of the facts, that GZ had a right to do what he did? They act like no one can talk nice about Trayvon because not all the facts are known. Well what about GZ? Why is he automatically an angel when we don't know all the facts about what happened either? This is so biased it's not even funny. And don't get me started on how much they just LOVE GZ's apology. UGH!

 

[saguaro]

I don't think anyone could have stopped him from apologizing since he's wanted to do this for a while.

I should add that my experience with police is why I've remained so objective in regards to this case. I don't trust many of them and that investigator on the stand reconfirmed my opinion.

I feel that there is a lot of collusion going on with the police after the fact.

Of course, this is my opinion and my opinion is based solely on my past experience with law enforcement.

 

[LynnM]

BBM

You may be correct, but the damning thing is the detective got on the stand yesterday and said they had no evidence of who was pursuing who or if he did in fact go back to his car. That's on the record now.

You're mistaken. Look again at the what the investigator said in the portion of the transcript previously posted. He said there was no evidence other than the call, the witness, and George's statement. They are all in my post.

 

[Elley Mae]

He surely wasn't prepared and it showed. It's bothersome when someone testifies in absolutes. You are right, the state has a lot more evidence than we know. But the fact that he said, we have no evidence of this or that, that's telling to me. Unless he lied, which is even a bigger issue for the state (credibility). If they really do have more evidence on specifically what he was questioned on (who started what, if GZ really did not go back to his car), he shouldn't of answered in the absolute of 'no'.

It would seem if they had a rabbit to pull out of the hat they would have to keep him from even being able to post bond.

 

[Ambrosia]

His site now has another awful quote. "A thousand words will not leave so deep an impression as one deed" - Henrik, Ibsen

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57418344/george-zimmermans-release-could-be-imminent/

"As to who threw the first blow? No," Gilbreath responded.

"Do you know who started the fight?"

"Do I know? No."

"Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?"

"No."

It would seem that the last "no" would cover a "eye witness" to who started the "fight".

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

His site now has another awful quote. "A thousand words will not leave so deep an impression as one deed" - Henrik, Ibsen

:what:

Who's monitoring that site? GZ isn't...how much money is donated so far?

I dont intent to go there...don't what them having my ISP..:maddening:

Liars, liars, pants on fire.....:banghead:

well, got to go and pick up my granddaughter...bbl...