17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[KrazyKatLadi]

I think you are 100% right to express your skepticism about the medical reports. I will always maintain that if Zimmerman's injuries were as severe as was claimed by him, SPD would not have assumed liability for him that night without taking him to the hospital for proper clearance prior to taking him to the station.


~jmo~

You're assuming all police officers follow all the rules. They don't.

My ex spent about 24 hours in jail after he was attacked at a restaurant and had two large cuts (one on forehead, one on leg) with no medical attention whatsoever. He ended up getting about 300 stitches.

We can't always go by what someone "should" have done. JMO

 

[m00c0w]

You're assuming all police officers follow all the rules. They don't.

My ex spent about 24 hours in jail after he was attacked at a restaurant and had two large cuts (one on forehead, one on leg) with no medical attention whatsoever. He ended up getting about 300 stitches.

We can't always go by what someone "should" have done. JMO

Especially with every other aspect of the police's behavior that night being called into question...

 

[Nova]

This is true, O'Mara acts as though he is going to give the report to the investigator, then says he'll give them to the state but never does. :waitasec:

I haven't worked with lawyers in Florida, but in California and New York disclosed information has to be in a certain form, with a corollary document attesting to the accuracy of the info. You don't just hand the SA a stack of papers as you pass her in the hall. (Among other things, you keep the delivery slip in case there is a dispute in the future; documents do get lost.)

Unless we hear otherwise, I assume MOM will formally disclose the medical records to the SA by whatever deadline is on the trial calendar.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't see any indication that GZ does not feel sorry that he perceived a necessity to shoot TM that night. JMO

Are you suggesting his apology should have been, "I'm sorry I had to kill your son?" Do you think that would have gone over better? I don't. The words he spoke were no doubt carefully chosen. "Sorry for the loss of your son" takes responsibility and expresses compassion, while not ruling out that GZ thought his actions necessary to defend himself, nor his remorse about that necessity and its outcome. JMO

How does "Sorry for your loss" take responsibility? It's a standard phrase that can be used by anyone with no involvement in the death whatsoever.

 

[m00c0w]

How does "Sorry for your loss" take responsibility? It's a standard phrase that can be used by anyone with no involvement in the death whatsoever.

But he's not "anyone with no involvement in the death". He's directly responsible, and that changes the context of his apology and the words he used.

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

Especially with every other aspect of the police's behavior that night being called into question...

Maybe I'm crazy (probably) or grown up around a lot of LE (yup), but I never trust them. I find it ridiculous that people put blind faith and all their trust in such people. If ever there was a group that covered up and lied for each other...I've heard too many around the campfire talks to think LE is out for justice. JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Maybe I'm crazy (probably) or grown up around a lot of LE (yup), but I never trust them. I find it ridiculous that people put blind faith and all their trust in such people. If ever there was a group that covered up and lied for each other...I've heard too many around the campfire talks to think LE is out for justice. JMO

I won't go that far... but when Sanford PD is being characterized as the next Keystone Cops, I'm not sure why it's assumed that they'd do anything they "should" <mod snip>.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

bbm -- how do you know this is a lie?

IMO, I think the assumption that it never happened can be inferred from Zimmerman's discussion with the operator - he was more than happy to give a blow-by-blow of what he claims Martin was doing, such as coming toward him, looking at him, hand in his pants, looking at houses, etc. I don't think he would have left out a juicy tidbit like a suspicious individual circling his car multiple times. Like I said, it's just a guess, but like Kirk told Spock, "I'll take your guesses over another man's facts any time."

 

[MsCharlieChan]

Also, on the picture, taken seconds after the shooting, there is no grass or dirt on his head? If he "moved" his head to the grass -- with it being wet, his head should have been dirty -- but it isn't? MOO

Not one blade of grass? Not one speck of dirt? No smeared blood on his head if all this tussling occurred?

And no need to get medical attention...? The fewer people analyzing this manufactured injury, the better, I guess.

It is :floorlaugh: laughable to me that GZ is witnessed as standing up, holding his head (but not touching the blood, his artwork), and feigning confusion while asking, "What just happened?!"

And the Oscar goes to...

 

[Donjeta]

But he's not "anyone with no involvement in the death". He's directly responsible, and that changes the context of his apology and the words he used.

Because he is responsible, any and all words are assumed to mean he is "taking responsibility"?

 

[kimpage]

Have not seen it posted here but have at other sites...So what do you all think the derogatory e-mail that GZ sent out about Tracy Martin was about??????? Any guesses i have my own suspicions about what it said and cannot wait to find out.:moo::moo::moo::moo:

 

[m00c0w]

Because he is responsible, any and all words are assumed to mean he is "taking responsibility"?

No, but the person responsible for someone's death saying that they're sorry for the death... Yeah, I'd say that's taking about as much responsibility as you can on the witness stand in court without completely impeaching yourself.

 

[mercuriod]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...-florida-prosecutor-trayvon-martin/54189310/1

Where in that story does it say A. Corey is "known for over charging"?

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

I won't go that far... but when Sanford PD is being characterized as the next Keystone Cops, I'm not sure why it's assumed that they'd do anything they "should" <mod snip>

ITA!

It can't be both ways!

 

[Nova]

I thought the same exact thing SuziQ. Sadly after the Anthony spectacle, the words defense attorney leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.


~jmo~

Defense attorneys are all that stand between you and me and a government that has the power and resources to lock either of us up or even put us to death. The Constitution of the United States is only as good as the defense attorneys who use it to protect us.

 

[Desdemona]

It was in the hearing yesterday. The SA said it was in Zimmerman's statement.

Thank you for replying. It doesn't seem to be in the CNN transcript (link below, correct me if I'm wrong), but that is only the transcript of their coverage; it could be else where. IMO it's odd that no one in MSM has been trumpeting this new information from the rooftops, if it's true that GZ's statement was that TM circled his truck three times. I'll keep looking. JMO

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

 

[Phoenixfla]

Defense attorneys are all that stand between you and me and a government that has the power and resources to lock either of us up or even put us to death. The Constitution of the United States is only as good as the defense attorneys who use it to protect us.

Yep - all dirty scoundrels till you need one.

 

[Nova]

bbm -- how do you know this (TM circling the SUV 3 times) is a lie?

a. because GZ didn't mention it to the dispatcher;

b. because there wasn't time (see Concerned Papa's estimates for distance and walking time);

c. because in circling the vehicle, TM would have walked in and out of GZ's field of vision. There's no way GZ would have sat still for that. If TM had been circling GZ in the latter's SUV, their confrontation would have taken place right there.

(ETA assuming it was ever said. There seems to be some difficulty in substantiating the story.)

 

[Desdemona]

I believe that was brought up during the bond hearing. The closest I could find to substantiate that claim is here. Although it does not say how many times , but is definitely different than the original walking up to check him out from the 911 call.

"But during his turn on the stand, Gilbreath drew attention to Zimmerman's assertion to police that Trayvon was at one point running around Zimmerman's car. Gilbreath questioned why that should make Zimmerman fear for his life. “[Zimmerman] was so scared that he still got out of the car and chased Mr. Martin,” Gilbreath said skeptically. "

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...in-Zimmerman-s-story-raised-police-suspicions

Just saw this. Thank you.

<BBM> "Running around." Like an end-run in football IMO. Not as in "circling." This may be where it originated... but what about the "three times?"

(I'll keep looking, in case this is not the origin of the "circling three times" bit.)

 

[Reader]

Defense worried about Zimmerman's safety in Florida

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-21/george-zimmerman-safety/54456272/1

..........Defense attorneys for other high-profile clients who awaited trial on bail had advice for how to protect the man whose shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin sparked nationwide protests: Get him out of Florida, keep him from going out in public and never leave him alone.

"He clearly puts himself in jeopardy unless he takes precautions," said New York attorney Barry Slotnick, who represented subway shooter Bernhard Goetz in the 1980s.
------

But until then, Zimmerman's attorneys should expect intense interest in where Zimmerman is, said Kendall Coffey, a former U.S. Attorney in Miami who is now in private practice.

"I think they have to be prepared for a manhunt by not only members of the media but curious onlookers," Coffey said. "The whereabouts of George Zimmerman will be one of the most intriguing curiosities of the legal world in the coming weeks."

Post-bail security costs don't come cheap, either, and it could be extremely difficult for Zimmerman to pay for it. His attorney is considering having him declared indigent, and his wife has no income because she is in nursing school and does not work.

More at link.....