17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30

[suspicious1]

If they were involved in illegal parties than maybe their credibility is lacking too. Or their memories.

GZ was involved so does that mean He is lacking credibility too?

 

[Desdemona]

Interesting information discovered by someone on a different forum!

The image of GZ's head with the injuries that was just released shows a jacket with a red collar and shoulders, gray sleeves with black or darker gray cuffs. Look at the 30 second mark on this ABC video:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/zim...ive-photo-night-trayvon-martin-death-16178849

Now look at the video of GZ at the police station the night of the shooting, at just after the one minute mark:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475

His jacket has a red collar, black or dark gray shoulders, and RED sleeves! That does not appear to be the same jacket from what I am seeing in the two videos!

Tell me what you all think, am I imagining things?

ETA - at just after the two minute mark on the first video above, they show both shots side by side. Maybe it's the lighting but the color of the two jackets are completely different. One is much oranger than the other.

Interesting thought, but same jacket in both, to my eyes. JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm still missing the part that is illegal. Are these parties at personal residences or in a commercial location?

IF a girl goes to a house/hotel and is offering her services for money -- it is prostitution. Girls are not allowed to even agree to meet for drinks with men as it is legally... prostitution. A girl cannot even agree to meet a customer after work... as it is prostitution. If a guy is picking you up -- they are not allowed to be in the club as a customer that night. You are not allowed to leave with anyone that is in that club.

How these parties are set up is that someone who is throwing the party will come in and hang out at the club and talk to girls and ask them if they are interested in doing a private party... which is illegal. Whatever girl agrees will then go and talk other girls into doing the party and they will pick a shady bouncer who is willing to work the party for extra cash. These are HUGE "No No's" in the club because it can all be brought back on the establishment if something goes wrong. That is why if they would even get a whiff of it -- they were fired. One of the main things talked about in our meetings with ATF every three months was girls doing these parties.

At these parties, there is alcohol and usually drugs and they want nude dancers -- not just topless and that is why they take the club out of the club... which is illegal. There are strict rules dealing with adult entertainment. Very strict rules.

 

[LolaMoon08]

A few years ago, at another club in town, a dancer went to meet a customer for a private party, and she brought he boyfriend as a "bouncer" and they robbed and killed him. Guess who was sued?? The club! It is also part of their record and you only get so many strikes until they can shut you down.

Everyone that works in a club has to have an adult entertainment license. Because she met the guy in the club, and met him after her shift, the club was responsible even though everything that happened, happened off club property.

ETA: You know what else they do? Certain things during a lap dance are illegal. You are not allowed to touch certain areas and the customer is not allowed to put their hands on you at all. If a undercover is in the club and you allow them to touch you or put your body on them in what they consider an "illegal" way -- you will be charged with prostitution.

 

[katydid23]

The police wouldn't know to arrest him if they were not called. It was an illegal house party.

Suppose the story is true and you are the woman. You got drunk and out of control in an illegal house party. The bouncer threw you and you twisted your ankle.

Would you come forward in public to tell this story? This was years ago, it doesn't show you in a good light, it's a nationally notorious news story. Do you think your boss and your family would like to have your name associated with the story?

So tell me how this makes him an evil monster then? He is working at an underground illegal party, where I am assuming people are drunk and high on coke, etc. And a drunken woman gets out of control in some way, and he 'throws' her and she twists her ankle? If he really was a violent man she would have had much worse than a twisted ankle, imo.

When he was 21 or so he shoved a plainclothes undercover cop who tried to arrest his friend in a bar. Ok, not that evil of a mistake, imo. I have seen friends do a similar thing in the heat of battle.

Even his so called 'battery' of his girlfriend was borderline, imo. He never beat her or battered her. they BOTH lost their tempers and crossed the line.

I just do not see a violent lifestyle here, as many are claiming. Nor a racist one.

p.s.

I was a bar tender and a cocktail waitress for quite awhile in my younger years. I had many shoving matches and also threw a drunk woman across a room one time. It happens in crowded, drunken clubs all of the time.

 

[Phoenixfla]

I don't view myself as being a pessimist but for certain I do know there are many many many dishonest people who hold positions of authority in local, state as well as national government.....And please don't take this as being snarky either...JMHO

But are you saying the SPD and the ME were in collusion to manufacture a false autopsy?

 

[Phoenixfla]

Especially when she would have been charged with prostitution!

I missed the part where she was a prostitute. That does shed more light on the story though.

 

[katydid23]

GZ was involved so does that mean He is lacking credibility too?

Yes, I think he has a credibility problem. For sure. But that does not mean he is a violent racist who went out searching for a black kid to kill that night, as many seem to believe,.

 

[Donjeta]

So tell me how this makes him an evil monster then? He is working at an underground illegal party, where I am assuming people are drunk and high on coke, etc. And a drunken woman gets out of control in some way, and he 'throws' her and she twists her ankle? If he really was a violent man she would have had much worse than a twisted ankle, imo.

When he was 21 or so he shoved a plainclothes undercover cop who tried to arrest his friend in a bar. Ok, not that evil of a mistake, imo. I have seen friends do a similar thing in the heat of battle.

Even his so called 'battery' of his girlfriend was borderline, imo. He never beat her or battered her. they BOTH lost their tempers and crossed the line.

I just do not see a violent lifestyle here, as many are claiming. Nor a racist one.

I have never called him an evil monster. However, IMO four incidents of "oh, it's not so bad, maybe he had a good reason to assault/kill that person" by the age of 28 are four too many.

And if the former co-worker is to be trusted the ankle twisting incident wasn't the only one in which GZ snapped and got out of control.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I missed the part where she was a prostitute. That does shed more light on the story though.

No, I am assuming that she is a dancer, who if she was doing an illegal party, she could be charged with prostitution. That is what illegal parties are. When dancers go and do private parties -- which -- yes-- legally it is prostitution.

 

[Emeralgem]

But are you saying the SPD and the ME were in collusion to manufacture a false autopsy?

I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me...For certain, it wouldn't be the first time... JMHO

 

[katydid23]

The police wouldn't know to arrest him if they were not called. It was an illegal house party.

Suppose the story is true and you are the woman. You got drunk and out of control in an illegal house party. The bouncer threw you and you twisted your ankle.

Would you come forward in public to tell this story? This was years ago, it doesn't show you in a good light, it's a nationally notorious news story. Do you think your boss and your family would like to have your name associated with the story?

But why might a bouncer 'throw' you? Could it have been a hard shove, after a drunken, coke fueled stripper lunged at him for some reason?

 

[grammieto5]

I hope you WSleuthers don't think I'm crazy when I say I think there are other voice/voices that are in the background on the Zimmerman 911 tape. I do hear them. During the time the dispatcher is asking Z if he wants them to [meet him at the mailboxes.] - (sounds like someone calling another a 'stupid punk'.) I do hear it when the dispatcher is saying 'OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when [they’re in the area."] Within [ ] I hear 'he's watching'. Either Zimmerman at this time was not alone and it was someone else besides Martin, or it was Martin talking and was within Zimmerman's earshot and sight. In other words he couldn't have been on his way back and ambushed. That Zimmerman had stopped following of Martin and was walking back to his truck and confronted by Martin has to be hogwash IMO. I'm no Colombo but I do have headphones. <p>Do any of you hear the voices? :crosseyed:<p>

LOL the bolded part of your post sure made me laugh

 

[m00c0w]

There are many here who've questioned a) who took the photo of GZ's bloodied head and b) if another man's voice can be heard at the end of GZ's 911 call...

Could the "photographer / mystery voice" be John, the "new" eye-witness who said he saw TM on top of GZ, and then ran upstairs to call 911? John told 911 the incident was going down right below his window.

A blog I read believed they heard GZ knocking on a door near the end of his 911 call. I only hear what sounds like GZ loading his gun. But, what if?...

What if some of those background noises really are knocks on John's door, seconds before GZ and TM come face-to-face? And that's how John happened to become an eye-witness.

So how much did John see? What did he miss when he ran upstairs to call 911? Did GZ give John certain instructions before he ran upstairs? Maybe these two are better pals than we realize?

The possibility of GZ knocking on a door near that corner raises many questions...

BBM

"John" was actually one of the first eyewitnesses interviewed by the media after the event - the day after, if I recall correctly. Way before it was made into the nationwide news it is now. I would not consider him "new", as that implies he came out only to defend Zimmerman. The truth is, he was saying this long before many of us knew about the incident.

 

[katydid23]

I have never called him an evil monster. However, IMO four incidents of "oh, it's not so bad, maybe he had a good reason to assault/kill that person" by the age of 28 are four too many.

And if the former co-worker is to be trusted the ankle twisting incident wasn't the only one in which GZ snapped and got out of control.

If you work as a bouncer in a club full of drunks, then you get into fights literally every night.

And hundreds and hundreds of couples get into fights and get RO's on each other. Not a good thing, but it does not make you a cold blooded killer.

Sure, he has a temper. But I do not see him as an out of control monster, like many are painting him to be.

 

[Donjeta]

But why might a bouncer 'throw' you? Could it have been a hard shove, after a drunken, coke fueled stripper lunged at him for some reason?

JMO I am not sure it was a stripper or that kind of a party. It could have been just a kid who came to drink and party with her friends in an illegal setting.

MOO but I think it probably is pretty bad if you get fired from an illegal job for being too aggressive with the clients.

 

[LolaMoon08]

But why might a bouncer 'throw' you? Could it have been a hard shove, after a drunken, coke fueled stripper lunged at him for some reason?

I've seen drunk girls smash beer bottles over bouncers, bartenders, even the owner of the clubs head --- not once was that girl violently touched. The bouncer would simply grab her from behind, securing her hands, and carry her into the back room -- make her get dressed -- call a taxi -- send her home -- and she would no longer have a job.

 

[jjenny]

JMO I am not sure it was a stripper or that kind of a party. It could have been just a kid who came to drink and party with her friends in an illegal setting.

MOO but I think it probably is pretty bad if you get fired from an illegal job for being too aggressive with the clients.

Assuming any of it actually happened. Prosecution sure was not using that alleged incident to illustrate Zimmerman's supposed propensity for violence.

 

[LolaMoon08]

JMO I am not sure it was a stripper or that kind of a party. It could have been just a kid who came to drink and party with her friends in an illegal setting.

MOO but I think it probably is pretty bad if you get fired from an illegal job for being too aggressive with the clients.

The thing is -- I've never known a party where bouncers had to be there -- where strippers weren't involved. That is what an "illegal party" is. A bouncer would not be at a simple house party with a bunch of kids drinking and doing drugs. They are there for a reason and that reason is to protect the girls and to make sure they get their money.

 

[katydid23]

I've seen drunk girls smash beer bottles over bouncers, bartenders, even the owner of the clubs head --- not once was that girl violently touched. The bouncer would simply grab her from behind, securing her hands, and carry her into the back room -- make her get dressed -- call a taxi -- send her home -- and she would no longer have a job.

And ONE former co-worker tells his version of the story and it is fully believed? How do we know what really happened?