17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #31

[m00c0w]

Too busy? :waitasec:

Sanford PD Smoke & Mirrors 1 - YouTube

With respect to your video... How many shootings/killings were reported in that area? Would that not mean that "This is pretty much out of the ordinary for this neighborhood"? What was that officer's normal patrol area? When was he normally on duty? Was he normally on duty when Zimmerman made his 8 calls a year? Do you think that a loud music report is more comparable to reporting a kid walking down the street by himself, or the shooting of an individual?

 

[kimpage]

BBM
What if it were put forth that TM was trying to take control of the gun,and they were struggling over it. and that is why the shooting happened? Would that make a difference to you?

I am just wondering, not believing it for sure at this point. Just wondering.

Nope GZ had no reason to approach TM. So even if TM did beat GZ senseless it is all GZ's fault he was the adult and should have stayed in his car....Nothing will ever change my mind that GZ ia a cold blooded murderer.. IMHO JMHO and all that

 

[who]

IF this is actually in Zimmerman's statement from that night...and I assume (you know what happens when you assume) that the Police Chief would know... then several things about the situation occur to me.

Zimmerman approached Trayvon, who was at that time talking with the girlfriend and we know this because of the timestamps on the phone logs, and the girlfriends testimony which is remarkably similar.

If Zimmerman approached Trayvon, then we know that he was not hit from behind or ambushed in any way...so a punch or a kick would not have come as a total surprise since obviously GZ was looking right at Trayvon.

We know that 5 minutes from the time the call with the girlfriend dropped, the police arrived to find Trayvon dead, and Zimmerman's gun already holstered. We have seen the videos of Zimmerman in the Police station with no blood, grass stains, torn clothing, or even wrinkles in his clothes 35 minutes after the shooting.

We know that he was "treated" in the back of the Police car for the injuries he claims...but see no evidence that they even put a steri strip on him or any bandages of any kind and cleared him to leave..

IMO unless there is some substantial changes in the evidence that makes it clear that Trayvon was the aggressor in the confrotnation, Self defense is going to be a truly hard sell. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Indeed. All fine points.

 

[i.b.nora]

If I heard correctly, Mr Bonaparte is going to be on Lawrence O'Donnells show tonight.

 

[Sensei]

BBM
What if it were put forth that TM was trying to take control of the gun,and they were struggling over it. and that is why the shooting happened? Would that make a difference to you?

I am just wondering, not believing it for sure at this point. Just wondering.

Well, if GZ were innocently walking back to his vehicle and not actually following Trayvon, then how did they end up face to face for him to ask Trayvon Do you live here as Chief Lee states that he did? Never mind we'll get back to that

How did Trayvon see the gun which was when the Police arrived secured in a holster in GZ's waistband and his jacket zipped up per FT?

Why would he think to struggle for a gun that he couldn't see? Unless he could see it because it was in GZ's hand....

The only way that this happens the way Chief Lee stated that it did is if GZ actively continues following Trayvon so that he could stop him and ask his questions...nothing else makes any sense, common sense or otherwise...and makes GZ the aggressor IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[mercuriod]

Dang, grandmaj is quick draw mcgraw tonight!

 

[elementary]

Trayvon was murdered in cold blood...

cold–blood·ed
Pronunciation: \ˈkōl(d)-ˈblə-dəd\
Function: adjective
Date: 1595
1 a: done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency <cold&#8211;blooded murder> b: matter-of-fact, emotionless <a cold&#8211;blooded assessment>

Thus, murdered in cold blood, means that the murderer had no conscience, or emotion as he committed the act.

without emotion or feeling; dispassionate; cruel: a cold-blooded murder.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cold-blooded

As for the hunted down like a dog, I'd say that speaks for itself. Tactical flashlights, 9 mm weapon with hollow-point bullets, sure sounds like he was hunted like a dog in my opinion.



~jmo~

All perfectly stated. And that is why I think we hear that terrified, harrowing shriek for help by Trayvon. He knew he was going to die because I am also convinced that that is exactly what GZ told him, "Tonight you are going to die". Cold blooded and calculated murder, indeed.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Did anyone get to see the doc dump today and was there anything in there that we hadn't seen before?

The only new things that I saw were the motions about GZ wearing civilian clothing to the bond hearing and some motions from media about judicial and public records. Here's a link to the documents.

http://www.flcourts18.org/presspublic.html

 

[kimpage]

WOW watching Lawrence O'Donnell and Bonaparte(sp) said it is about money not letting Chief Lee go they want to wait until investigation over..No link just heard it so will add.........IMHO JMHO and all that and Charles Blow cannot believe it and the no confidence vote hurts their position

 

[Sensei]

I don't think anyone has lauded Lee's rhetorical stylings. I'm pretty sure we all agree he was out of line.

it is agreed that he was out of line, but the real pressing question is
Was he correct in his paraphrase of what Zimmerman's statement is?

That is what I essentially want to know...because if he is, then we have a whole new ballgame as far as any self defense claim. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Sherbie]

I hope the statements GZ gave to LE are released in the next document dump. I really want to see for myself what exactly he told LE and what type of inconsistencies there may be among his various statements. I saw an attorney on TV the other day saying that GZ had given five or six "different stories" - I don't know if he really did or if he gave five or six statements (which may or may not be consistent).

I think in the Anthony case, we saw transcripts only to begin with, and the interview DVDs were released later. I guess it would be hoping too much to get both, but I'm hoping for it anyway. I want to see his demeanor and what he actually told LE.

 

[Sensei]

WOW watching Lawrence O'Donnell and Bonaparte(sp) said it is about money not letting Chief Lee go they want to wait until investigation over..No link just heard it so will add.........IMHO JMHO and all that and Charles Blow cannot believe it and the no confidence vote hurts their position

IOW it would be cheaper to wait and boot him, than to pay his severance package, and retirement and so forth.

 

[kimpage]

it is agreed that he was out of line, but the real pressing question is
Was he correct in his paraphrase of what Zimmerman's statement is?

That is what I essentially want to know...because if he is, then we have a whole new ballgame as far as any self defense claim. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Agreed and i would bet what Lee said GZ told him is true...That is why i do NOT believe it is a SYG case. IMHO JMHO and all that

 

[Dr.Fessel]

SP Corey said the leaked information was a real problem.

Wasn't the chief of police responsible for all the leaked info? Can a city manger or a mayor force a police chief to release evidence in a case?

 

[Karmady]

Yes, very probable that he was trying to give the public a glimpse of Zimmerman's (no doubt well-instructed, calm, humble) demeanor. It may be the only opportunity to put his client before the public outside of trial. I think O'Mara is a very smart guy and, like you said, was aware of how it might play and considered it a risk worth taking. I still wonder whether he cooked it up or whether GZ really wanted to do it and O'Mara saw the potential benefit in it and allowed it.

I wouldn't be surprised one way or the other about whether GZ wanted to do it or not. Idk. But I would bet the farm that O'Mara called the shot, completely. If GZ had suggested it and O'Mara thought it was a bad idea he would have just said "no" and that would be the end of it. It would have to have been O'Mara's idea, as well. There is no way he didn't think of it then said "oh, I think George has a good idea, let's go with that." jmo.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Well, if GZ were innocently walking back to his vehicle and not actually following Trayvon, then how did they end up face to face for him to ask Trayvon Do you live here as Chief Lee states that he did? Never mind we'll get back to that

How did Trayvon see the gun which was when the Police arrived secured in a holster in GZ's waistband and his jacket zipped up per FT?

Why would he think to struggle for a gun that he couldn't see? Unless he could see it because it was in GZ's hand....

The only way that this happens the way Chief Lee stated that it did is if GZ actively continues following Trayvon so that he could stop him and ask his questions...nothing else makes any sense, common sense or otherwise...and makes GZ the aggressor IMO JMHO and stuff.

IF you believe TM gf then TM confronted GZ when he first asked "Why are you following me" then GZ asked "What are you doing here".If TM then punched GZ and they began wrestling around on the ground TM might have felt GZ gun when he was on top of him.IF GZ was back on his way to his truck like he said he was that makes TM the aggressor not GZ. I am sure if GZ was waving a gun around TM would never have punched him in the nose and broke it,unfortunately IMO TM did not realize he was attacking an armed man.GZ was not acting against the law until he thought he had no choice IMO.What if when everything comes out it shows GZ was telling the truth do you still think he deserves to spend life in jail? I sure do not.IMO,JMO and all that jazz.

 

[Sherbie]

I'm horribly cynical about politics, so I could see the council putting up a show of support for the chief in order to prevent the perception that they think (or admit) that the chief/department did something wrong (trying to mitigate the damage of any potential future lawsuit by Trayvon's family).

 

[Chris_Texas]

IMO GZ will go before the judge and charges will be dismissed under SYG law.JMO I do not see this ever going to trial.

I disagree. This is going to trial whatever the SYG law might say. Or, I should say, it better go to trial or there is the potential for some real violence. It seems to me that a whole lot of folks -- particularly on the right -- are taking a perverse pleasure in defending both Zimmerman and this rather insane law, and going beyond that to outright provocation of people who have been remarkably patient thus far.

But you can only push so far. In this case, the black community has not only suffered through the death of a child and the police indifference that followed, but they have quietly tolerated a non-stop stream of attacks on the victim, attacks on the victim's family, and even outright racist hate posted on mainstream news websites and even the statements of public figures.

This case needs to go to trial. But that's only the beginning.

The people deserve and need real and complete answers as to what exactly happened within the law enforcement community. This nonsense needs to stop, the people responsible need to be in jail, and laws like this one (which, in my opinion, is good in theory) need serious clarification. As it stands, it might as well be called the "leave no living witnesses" law.

MOO etc

 

[m00c0w]

SP Corey said the leaked information was a real problem.

Wasn't the chief of police responsible for all the leaked info? Can a city manger or a mayor force a police chief to release evidence in a case?

I believe the Mayor's who requested certain elements to get released, yes. Like the 911 tapes and the videos.

 

[Sensei]

IF you believe TM gf then TM confronted GZ when he first asked "Why are you following me" then GZ asked "What are you doing here".If TM then punched GZ and they began wrestling around on the ground TM might have felt GZ gun when he was on top of him.IF GZ was back on his way to his truck like he said he was that makes TM the aggressor not GZ. I am sure if GZ was waving a gun around TM would never have punched him in the nose and broke it,unfortunately IMO TM did not realize he was attacking an armed man.GZ was not acting against the law until he thought he had no choice IMO.What if when everything comes out it shows GZ was telling the truth do you still think he deserves to spend life in jail? I sure do not.IMO,JMO and all that jazz.

IF we ever see any authenticated medical records showing that GZ did in fact have a broken nose, and that it was in fact broken the night of the incident, and not before and not after…I will be amazed and appalled that I have lived so long and seen so many similar injuries and never seen one that had no significant swelling and such minimal bleeding that it could be cleaned up in the back of a patrol car and be virtually unnoticeable 35 minutes later, and that the person sporting that broken nose could hold his head down, and move his head freely with no signs of distress or breathing problems.

I will also be fascinated and impressed to discover that TM could land a punch that did that kind of damage without doing himself an injury to his own hands…and completely underwhelmed that a grown man could be attacked by an unarmed teen who as far as has been reported has no formal training in boxing or martial arts and yet not be able to land a single blow that shows that he was in a struggle before he “HAD” to shoot him point blank in the chest.

I find the wording so similar, Do you live around here, and what are you doing around here that I do not have a problem connecting what Chief Lee claimed was said and what the girlfriend claims was said….

No matter which way I try to look at it, it is clear that there is no evidence what so ever that Trayvon was angry, or in a foul mood, spoiling for a fight or ready to punch someone out at the slightest provocation….and there is more than ample evidence and some of it from his own mouth that GZ WAS looking for trouble, and was convinced that he had already found some with some of those A@##$% that always get away, because this punk looked like he was on drugs or up to no good or something….it is not hard for me to determine who was MOST LIKELY to have been the aggressor in that situation and it was the man with the gun not the unarmed teenager…IMO JMHO and stuff.

My opinions are subject to change with credible evidence but thus far there is no credible evidence that points in another direction.